Estrogen issues

[youngsinatra]

Did you notice your blood pressure increasing? Is this just a reaction from the thyroid supplement? My bottom number has gone up a bunch today since I was putting it on my tongue. I just checked my blood pressure and it was 150/105 and my pulse was 75. It was 93 earlier my bottom number. I definitely feel a lot more sweaty, itchy like I'm a little warmer. I wonder if I need to start supplementing with vitamin k. I know I have high blood calcium which is not good I think according to Ray.

It’s not a typical reaction, but possible.

It might be a slight adrenaline reaction in response to thyroid. Thyroid resensitizes the adrenaline receptors. Hypothyroidism causes diminished sensitivity to adrenaline, while having a elevated serum adrenaline. (Hypothyroid people sometimes have up to 40x higher adrenaline levels in comparison to healthy individuals)
So you can imagine that it takes some readjustment when hypothyroidism is getting resolved. Eventually adrenaline will come down.

Ray recommended a low dose of supplemental magnesium (100mg) with each dose of thyroid to ease into it in the beginning.

Do you take vitamin D? A high blood calcium is definitely something we need to fix.

The itchiness might be due to thyroid‘s effect on bile acid metabolism. Low thyroid individuals have impaired bile flow and liver function.

 

[Gorillaquills]

It’s not a typical reaction, but possible.

It might be a slight adrenaline reaction in response to thyroid. Thyroid resensitizes the adrenaline receptors. Hypothyroidism causes diminished sensitivity to adrenaline, while having a elevated serum adrenaline. (Hypothyroid people sometimes have up to 40x higher adrenaline levels in comparison to healthy individuals)
So you can imagine that it takes some readjustment when hypothyroidism is getting resolved. Eventually adrenaline will come down.

Ray recommended a low dose of supplemental magnesium (100mg) with each dose of thyroid to ease into it in the beginning.

Do you take vitamin D? A high blood calcium is definitely something we need to fix.

The itchiness might be due to thyroid‘s effect on bile acid metabolism. Low thyroid individuals have impaired bile flow and liver function.

That is what is strange. I did a vitamin d test and it came back in the 52 range. I was taking this supplement a few times a year from forefront health, vitamin A,D,K supplement.

According to Ray this is good. I do drink lots of milk and take egg shells. But since I just saw that my serum calcium is high I stopped. Was concerned!

Maybe it could explain weak muscles in gym due to lack of vitamin d, maybe. But yes it's not good

 

[Gorillaquills]

It’s not a typical reaction, but possible.

It might be a slight adrenaline reaction in response to thyroid. Thyroid resensitizes the adrenaline receptors. Hypothyroidism causes diminished sensitivity to adrenaline, while having a elevated serum adrenaline. (Hypothyroid people sometimes have up to 40x higher adrenaline levels in comparison to healthy individuals)
So you can imagine that it takes some readjustment when hypothyroidism is getting resolved. Eventually adrenaline will come down.

Ray recommended a low dose of supplemental magnesium (100mg) with each dose of thyroid to ease into it in the beginning.

Do you take vitamin D? A high blood calcium is definitely something we need to fix.

The itchiness might be due to thyroid‘s effect on bile acid metabolism. Low thyroid individuals have impaired bile flow and liver function.

Another thing, my sweat is so salty it burns my eyes terriblely when I workout or do things to cause excessive sweating. But salt is so important, but problem is my serum levels are high.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Another thing is I am always outside but I do live in northern America close to Canada. They is a high rate of vitamin d deficiency for syre

 

[Gorillaquills]

I don't know why my calcium is high. I was just reading some threads that haduit(George denkov) was talking about when you have high blood calcium.
It's weird, since my calcium is high, my parathyroid hormone should be low, which I've never tested. Also I tested my prolactin and it came back low. It could potentially be an estrogen problem which a lot of men nowadays struggle with. I see my doctor tomorrow. Going to talk to him about exemestane. Haduit thinks this one is safer than most AI.
Being that my estradiol is really high and my estrone is higher than I would like it. That could be the problem. It probably wouldn't hurt if I started taking more vitamin d and vitamin K. Also it probably wouldn't hurt if I did a magnesium test.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Maybe I really do need to start taking more vitamin d. Maybe I'm not getting enough.

 

[Gorillaquills]

I wonder too if I'm not getting near enough magnesium also. Especially people who workout 3-4 times a week and and individuals who sweat a lot loose lots of magnesium. If I'm not mistaken, magnesium levels are hard to tell in blood test , not accurate I mean. Tissues tests probably are best I would think.

 

[youngsinatra]

I can only speak from my experience, but vitamin D always give me bad symptoms. I wouldn’t recommend vitamin D to resolve high serum calcium.

I know that in one study (in horses tho) giving them lots of calcium gluconate caused hypercalcemia, while it decreased serum magnesium and potassium to deficiency levels and decreased PTH. I get magnesium and potassium deficiency symptoms from vitamin D especially, and also when I reach a high calcium intake. (above 1500mg per day for me)
I then get muscle twitching, muscle tightness, increased BP and anal cramps.

I don’t think that more calcium and vitamin D always equals lower serum calcium. I think there is a threshold for both to keep the calcium-homeostasis regulated.

I remember one person posting on the forum that had hypercalcemia (despite low PTH) resolved it by lowering his calcium supplementation dose alone.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Noted, and that is why I have stopped talking eggshells and reduced milk consumption a lot. Will see if that helps. Thanks

 

[youngsinatra]

Maybe magnesium helps. For a while I used pharma-grade magnesium chloride powder which is cheap and can be used for both oral and topical usage.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

One thing that I have really noticed is that at my age of 45 as a male rat, I have noticed that I have been getting a lot more body hair. I've really noticed it.

Excessive body hair on chest/ legs can be from high stress levels and/ or high estrogen.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Excessive body hair on chest/ legs can be from high stress levels and/ or high estrogen.

I definitely think it's an estrogen problem for sure. I have definitely noticed my body hair increaseing on my chest, back of my arms and lots on forearms.

Another reason I suspect estrogen, I have lots of chest fat, and lots of fat or water between my bicep and elbow. I can pinch like an inch of fat or skin. Lots of fat back of bicep and top of bicep connected to chest muscle. Especially on my inner thigh close to my knees. Way more fat than a .an that works out 3-4 times a week. Walks 7,000-10,000 steps daily and eats pretty good diet. Shouldn't be carrying so much fat.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Excessive body hair on chest/ legs can be from high stress levels and/ or high estrogen.

I just did a cortisol test which came back low, which is good. Did a prolactin test, that was low 7, but estrone was 54pg/ml , the rage is huge 0-174. According to haduit, prolactin and estrone are good indicators of total estrogen load. But I definitely don't like how high my estradiol is 42.2 pg/ml and the range 7.6-42.6. I'm almost out of rage. On top of that my total testosterone is low 266 ng/dl. That doesn't help my ratio out at all. So it doesn't even matter how much I work out nothing will change unless I fix the ratio. If I'm speaking correctly?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Sorry, I meant chest and back.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Sorry, I meant chest and back.

Oh I got lots of back here, lots

I'm hoping my blood work results will come back today. I just had my progesterone, pregnenolone, DHT and reverse t3 tested

 

[youngsinatra]

Interesting to see, that your estradiol is elevated while your total testosterone is low.
Estrone is the main estrogen formed by the adrenal glands, while estradiol is the main estrogen formed from the aromatization of testosterone.

So it could be a problem of high aromatase activity, leaving you with low testosterone.

Aromatase inhibition is known to counteract estradiol's negative feedback mechanism at the pituitary gland level and consequently increase the levels of gonadotrophins, LH, and FSH, and result in a rise in serum testosterone.

This effect is even seen in older people with hypogonadism and restores youthful levels of T.

"Another study reported results in units/100 g wet weight (one unit was defined as the dose required for 50% inhibition) and found tea (C. sinensis), coffee (Coffea L. sp.), cocoa (Theobroma cacao L.), collards (Brassica oleracea L.), and tomato leaves (Lycopersicon esculentum Mill.) to strongly inhibit aromatase using a microsomal assay [113]. Interestingly, this study also reported that cigarette smoke (obtained using methylene chloride and aqueous traps) and tobacco leaves (70% ethanol extract; Nicotiana tabacum L.) also potently inhibited aromatase, as reported in cigarette equivalents [113]."
( Natural Products as Aromatase Inhibitors )

White button mushrooms also contain potent aromatase inhibiting compounds in them.

I have no experience with pharma AI's.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Interesting to see, that your estradiol is elevated while your total testosterone is low.
Estrone is the main estrogen formed by the adrenal glands, while estradiol is the main estrogen formed from the aromatization of testosterone.

So it could be a problem of high aromatase activity, leaving you with low testosterone.

Aromatase inhibition is known to counteract estradiol's negative feedback mechanism at the pituitary gland level and consequently increase the levels of gonadotrophins, LH, and FSH, and result in a rise in serum testosterone.

This effect is even seen in older people with hypogonadism and restores youthful levels of T.

"Another study reported results in units/100 g wet weight (one unit was defined as the dose required for 50% inhibition) and found tea (C. sinensis), coffee (Coffea L. sp.), cocoa (Theobroma cacao L.), collards (Brassica oleracea L.), and tomato leaves (Lycopersicon esculentum Mill.) to strongly inhibit aromatase using a microsomal assay [113]. Interestingly, this study also reported that cigarette smoke (obtained using methylene chloride and aqueous traps) and tobacco leaves (70% ethanol extract; Nicotiana tabacum L.) also potently inhibited aromatase, as reported in cigarette equivalents [113]."
( Natural Products as Aromatase Inhibitors )

White button mushrooms also contain potent aromatase inhibiting compounds in them.

I have no experience with pharma AI's.

That's very interesting, I didn't know that estradiol and testosterone were inversely correlated. Very interesting. I wonder if this has been going on for quite some time since my testosterone has been low for very very long time. I wondered about the aromatization to myself.

I heard nicotine is really good at it but it can be kind of sketchy if you get addicted to it. It explains why most smokers are very skinny.

I've heard this on many threads and read many articles about white button mushrooms being very good at inhibiting aromatization. Especially extracts.
I do consume white button mushrooms regularly, several times a week in dishes. I eat lots of King trumpet mushrooms and shiitake's. I think I need something a little more potent.

I need to get my LH hormone check too. Something I haven't done yet
I have tried for quite some time the scrotal application of pregnenolone/DHEA to help bring up androgen levels. It doesn't seem to be working.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yeah, these were just some additional thoughts. I personally think that hypothyroidism is the biggest factor in your case of low testosterone.

LH and FSH are also on the low end in hypothyroidism. So this means less stimuli to produce testosterone in the testicles.

 

[Gorillaquills]

If I'm not mistaken, the hypothalamus is supposed to release gananotropin releasing hormone. This tells the pituitary, hey you need to release more luteinizing hormone and tell the testicles to make more testosterone. But if the feedback loop is not working right what little testosterone you have is being converted in the estradiol. So you really never getting anywhere.

So I think an AI might help me a lot. I know the doctors on Wednesday are probably going to want to recommend that I get on trt again.

When I did trt for a 3-month duration, the first three weeks I felt like my libido was really starting to go up, then about a month into it I felt flat, like there was nothing there anymore. It's a really weird feeling. Like I wasn't interested in my wife at all. So I stopped taking it because I did not like it and I think it was working against me instead of helping to raise my testosterone. I'm going to request that I try an AI first.

 

[Gorillaquills]

Yeah, these were just some additional thoughts. I personally think that hypothyroidism is the biggest factor in your case of low testosterone.

LH and FSH are also on the low end in hypothyroidism. So this means less stimuli to produce testosterone in the testicles.

My previous doctor visit for some reason tested my FSH instead of testing my LH which is more important for the man.