Eating LOW FAT Leads To Serious Gall Bladder Problems!

[DaveFoster]

Anyone who is too hard on "fruitarians" on the Ray Peat Forum is kind of contradicting themselves as Peat thinks tropical fruits are the best calorie source over everything else.



I think hydrogenated CO is unnecessary for me because I think the body has an ability to handle the naturally occurring pufa long term. I know too many people in their 60's who are handling their stored pufa fine. I think not eating frying oils and too many nuts and chicken/pork fat are more important than using hydrogenated CO.

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Hmm. Such_ is pretty old. @Such_Saturation How much PUFA do you eat, and how much fat are you eating these days?

 

[amethyst]

Steve Jobs died of pancreatic cancer. High sugar intake has been implicated in pancreatic cancer. Steve Jobs was a fruitarian.
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/547986

I'm not against sugar or fruit. I eat fruit. Probably 3-5 pieces of various fruits a day. Maybe even more. But I also balance it out with other foods, like fats and protein. I think what gets people in trouble, is eating fruit to the exclusion of everything else. And eating 30 bananas a day plus other fruits, is just kinda dumb IMO. I don't think your pancreas can handle that much sugar in one sitting. That kind of diet will eventually catch up with you.

I think now, even banana girl is eating more veggies, nuts and seeds.

 

[amethyst]

Btw, happy new year and good health to each and everyone in Ray Peat forum land

 

[amethyst]

Steve Jobs died of pancreatic cancer. High sugar intake has been implicated in pancreatic cancer. Steve Jobs was a fruitarian.
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/547986

I'm not against sugar or fruit. I eat fruit. Probably 3-5 pieces of various fruits a day. Maybe even more. But I also balance it out with other foods, like fats and protein. I think what gets people in trouble, is eating fruit to the exclusion of everything else. And eating 30 bananas a day plus other fruits, is just kinda dumb IMO. I don't think your pancreas can handle that much sugar in one sitting. That kind of diet will eventually catch up with you.

I think now, even banana girl is eating more veggies, nuts and seeds.

I don't think sugar is the evil that it's been portrayed....I just think sugar needs to be balanced with everything else. We can't just eat one food group and think this is healthy.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Steve Jobs worked with toxic chemicals for years while in the lab soldering. He also refused surgery early in his diagnosis when it could have saved him.

Why did Steve Jobs die?

 

[schultz]

Regarding the Steve Jobs thing:::

I don't know what this guy actually ate, but according to this article it doesn't sound very healthy.

Here are some snippets...

"The book details his occasional tendency to eat only one or two foods, like carrots or apples, for weeks at a time."

Sounds like a complete diet

"Jobs also spent some time as a fruitarian, a subset of veganism that means eating only fruits, nuts, seeds, vegetables and grains -- absolutely no animal products."

Likely the PUFA from seeds and nuts is what caused the pancreatic cancer, and not the sugar, which Ray says heals the pancreas. Also, the lack of protein probably didn't help much, or the high phosphorus.

"Jobs would sometimes turn to fasting to create feelings of euphoria and ecstasy."

 

[tankasnowgod]

Go to 3:08 and then in the end he shows Colpo's face.

Well, this video certainly shows a man yelling in an Austrailian accent, but I have no idea if that's Colpo or not. And no idea what he might be mad about. Absolutely zero context is offered in the video. Not one good shot of his face in the video, and a still picture that could have been taken anywhere at the end.

And even if that is Colpo arguing in the video..... so what? Is does NOT show anyone being punched, physically assaulted, or anything else illegal (as the title clearly claims). All it shows is a faceless man yelling at other faceless men (great camerawork!) over a dispute that could have been over anything. Or the entire thing could have been staged.

EDIT- Notice that the only physical contact in the video is instigated by the man in "Go Vegan" bike shirt and helmet touching that man in the all black shirt?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

It is Colpo. I have an email with him that I can forward to you where we are talking about what kind of dogs he has with him in the video.

Regardless, my point is don't just throw the baby out with the bathwater because of what some people write on forums/blogs. Because if you have an interest in health/nutrition and you just let a few trolls influence you because of things you can't ever truly know, i.e., what they really ate and lived like during that time, and the many, many other variables like drugs they did etc., then that is dumb. But I guess I shouldn't care so much about what others do and I should just focus on myself. Why should I waste time defending a diet or people whom I'll never meet or really even cared about? I'm starting to see how silly it all is. Arguing with people online is futile. Maybe for the new year I'll just move on from all things nutrition and health and just let go. Let go of the forums and just do me.

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[DaveFoster]

Steve Jobs was a purist, kind of mentally ill, and an absolute genius.

 

[mayweatherking]

doesnt you body make cholesterol anyway? you make cholesterol from increasing your fructose. although it's interesting about you guys saying that fat will allow you to go to the restroom more regularly. i notice when i eat coconut oil, i get warm hands and sometimes i have a bowel movement, i always thought it was from the pro thyroid aspects of it, maybe it is the fat aspect of it.

 

[DaveFoster]

doesnt you body make cholesterol anyway? you make cholesterol from increasing your fructose. although it's interesting about you guys saying that fat will allow you to go to the restroom more regularly. i notice when i eat coconut oil, i get warm hands and sometimes i have a bowel movement, i always thought it was from the pro thyroid aspects of it, maybe it is the fat aspect of it.

Your body makes cholesterol carbohydrate, and it can synthesize fats as well, but that doesn't mean anything. Your body can break down protein for glucose, and it can convert fat into ketones, but both are stressful.

 

[milk]

It is Colpo. I have an email with him that I can forward to you where we are talking about what kind of dogs he has with him in the video.

Regardless, my point is don't just throw the baby out with the bathwater because of what some people write on forums/blogs. Because if you have an interest in health/nutrition and you just let a few trolls influence you because of things you can't ever truly know, i.e., what they really ate and lived like during that time, and the many, many other variables like drugs they did etc., then that is dumb. But I guess I shouldn't care so much about what others do and I should just focus on myself. Why should I waste time defending a diet or people whom I'll never meet or really even cared about? I'm starting to see how silly it all is. Arguing with people online is futile. Maybe for the new year I'll just move on from all things nutrition and health and just let go. Let go of the forums and just do me.

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Honestly you're a valuable member. It would be a bummer if you left the forum.

I thought I had diabetes a few months ago. I would feel awful after eating a potato with butter. Then I read your posts and cut the fat and it worked like a charm. I've been feeling great.

 

[Wagner83]

Off topic:

I have listened to an awful lot of Ray's podcasts over the past week and it has been very enlightening , so I encourage any members of the forums to learn from the man himself rather than get predigested bits of information from other members first!

It does have small amounts of micronutrients but it's main purpose is calories.[...]The brain can burn ketones, but not fat. There's a difference. There is also an important part of the kidneys that always need sugar, not fat or protein:

[....]

So your brain, red blood cells, and renal medulla need a constant supply of glucose everyday. That's why white rice works.

See this video where Peat talks about making our own fats and that since we can make our own fats, he thinks "it's best to get as much sugar and starch in the diet," but "preferably sugars from fruit and milk." Which fits in line with what I'm saying here in the context of keeping fat low and getting most of your calories from carbohydrate, as well as his quotes on not over consuming dairy fat. He was asked there about how much fat one should eat and he said that it's best to get your energy from carbohydrate.


I think it means you don't have strong digestion. See this audio clip here. Notice how he said that you need a few hundred grams of carbohydrate from either sugar or starch everyday. That is the main point. You need carbohydrate every day. You need that glucose to burn so you don't start burning your own muscle to get glucose. Either eat carbohydrate, or force your body to make it itself from your muscle tissue, which is a problem.



[...]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Depending on the context there have been times when Ray has either completely bashed starches, or greatly praised the qualities of potatoes (and the great virtues of potato juice, which he seemed to suggest could be a good source of ketones), however he is always reluctant to favor starch (even more so grains and gluten) and it seems coherent with how he avoids it in his own diet. In any case Ray thinks anything that lengthen bowel transit time is negative (more bacteria, endotoxin etc..).

Endotoxin is mix of fat and sugar, so maybe the naive and simplistic idea of mixing fats and sugar leading to more endotoxin as a result has any value?

For now I find it difficult to believe in Ray's ideas on starch clogging arteries (in particular if consumed without fat). What are your thoughts on that?

The bottom line is if one doesn't eat starch , he needs to get his calories either from ripe fruits (impossible in our western countries) , plain white sugar , fructose powder, or fat. If we agree to avoid as much PUFAs as possible, then we are left with eating heaps of coconut oil (lauric acid is anti dht..) or gulping down 2-3 liters of sugared/fructosed milk and fruits juices. Ray has explained how commercial orange juice has been modified with added (possibly harmful) enzymes to dissolve the fibers within the orange juice (which is why the whole liquid is constantly orange even if stored vertically), so usual supermarket fruit juices sound like a pretty bad option.
Ray seems to think fructose and plain white sugar are very safe being that we avoid nutrients deficiencies caused by improved metabolism. This is one of the point I'd love to clarify, nutrient deficiencies aside is there anything to eating lots of fructose/white sugar powder that could be harmful, it seems we (Ray included) don't know exactly what the safe limit is. After all if we view starch (tubers aside) as carbohydrates rather than nutrient dense foods then is there any reason to believe white sugar or fructose powder are any worse?
For the record I have just found a fructose powder extracted from beets and its effects are much more positive than plain white sugar.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Hmm. Such_ is pretty old. @Such_Saturation How much PUFA do you eat, and how much fat are you eating these days?

Dunno 4 grams? I like to keep a 30 30 30 during the winter.

 

[Giraffe]

Endotoxin is mix of fat and sugar, so maybe the naive and simplistic idea of mixing fats and sugar leading to more endotoxin as a result has any value?

For now I find it difficult to believe in Ray's ideas on starch clogging arteries (in particular if consumed without fat). What are your thoughts on that?

Persorption Of Starch?

 

[raypeatclips]

@Matt1951 What does "freelee and durianriders break up" have to do with a fruitarian diet? You claim they killed their dog by eating vegan, but the link you provided was a random person on a forum saying they thought they heard that in a video.

Your link to reddit talks about their relationship issues, who cheated on who, threats of releasing a sex tape.

Don't turn this forum into a "celebrity" gossip forum.

 

[amethyst]

Dunno 4 grams? I like to keep a 30 30 30 during the winter.

Since I assume you've been peating for a while being a long time forum member,what is your 30 30 30 ratios, if you don't mind?

 

[amethyst]

Doing a web search, it is easy to find people who have failed on a fruitarian diet. Consider:
Can we talk about the '30 bananas a day'/heavily fruit-based vegan diets? Are they bull****? • /r/loseit
then link to this: What's the danger of an all-fruit diet? - CNN.com
It put Ashton Kutcher in the hospital.
"When you only eat fruit, you're excluding a lot of valuable nutrients from your diet, says Marisa Moore, registered dietician and spokeswoman for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. "Protein is one of the main ones that comes to mind," she says. "(Without protein) you lose body weight. Protein acts like a building block for your muscles and skin and organs." The same goes for fats, Moore says. Although they often get demonized, fats play an important role in our hormone levels and brain function. Fruit contains a lot of natural sugar, which needs to be controlled by insulin in the body, Moore says. It's the pancreas' job to release that insulin; Kutcher's pancreas may have been overworked if his body was receiving an overload of sugar."

The Ugly Truth About Harley “Durianrider” Johnstone – Anthony Colpo
"In early 2012, ex-vegan Tom Billings created a post on the Beyondveg.com website titled “Investigating Raw Vegan and Other Diet Gurus: Can You Trust Them?” Billings has written extensively about his experiences in the fruitarian and raw vegan movements, and the hostility and hypocrisy that abounds within them. His 2012 post catalogues a long list of both proven and alleged misdeeds by vegan diet gurus."
Colpo is correct, go to this website: Beyond Vegetarianism--Raw Food, Vegan, Fruitarian, Paleo Diets
then here for failures of the diet: Dietary Prob's in the Real World (Ex-Vegetarian Case Histories)

Durianrider has admitted he punched his now ex-girlfriend: Vegan YouTuber 'Freelee the Banana Girl' goes through public break-up with boyfriend | Daily Mail Online
They killed their dog by feeding it a vegan diet: Freelee the Banana Girl AKA Leanne Ratcliffe

Please read this: Freelee, durianrider and the vegan soap opera continues. • /r/Drama

Threatened by Durian Rider Read this to see the real durianrider.

durianrider the schizophrenic?
"Some things have to be FELT to be understood" - Durianrider 04/24/16. "I think schizophrenics let people control them and should get off mediciation and get more carbs and sugar and sleep water" - Durianrider 04/24/16. If you ever FELT what schizophrenia is like, you wouldn't be saying that. you have experience with mental disorders I get it, you've been diagnosed clinically in 1996. You are dismissing schizophrenia???? it's a real disease bro. You don't want schizos off their meds.

Colpo is probably better known for taking on low carb diets, saying athletes need carbs.
Anyone who promotes a fruit only diet is a fraud. There is no proof "durianrider" strictly follows his own diet plan. Note that many so called vegans cheat. Bill Clinton was once on a vegan kick, but he later admitted he was eating fish once a week. Hollywood restaurants comment on how supposedly vegetarian acting stars like to eat steak.

Do a web search on "durianrider is a fraud"
also "freelee and durianrider break up"

I said this as well about Ashton Kutcher. When he tried a fruitarian diet, he reportedly said his pancreas was messed up from too much fruit sugar. That's how he ended up in the hospital. I agree, that *just* eating fruits, without balancing it out with other food groups, is asking for problems. Too much sugar going in all the time, over loads and overwhelms the pancreas.
* I also think anyone endorsing *just* fruit is doing a lot of harm to the general public, like Durianrider, who seems a bit *off* to me.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Since I assume you've been peating for a while being a long time forum member,what is your 30 30 30 ratios, if you don't mind?

30 fat 30 protein 30 carbs

 

[Emstar1892]

Just my two cents on the 30BADforums...

As I've stated in my own threads, I was on a low-carb, very high-pufa diet for years from my late teens/early twenties. Blood work always perfect. Never had any issues apart from craving carbs when other people had them, and having less exercise endurance. I decided to completely transition for those reasons.

I followed the whole HCLF crowd (high carb hannah, durian rider, mcdougall, barnard, esselstyn, etc) and was a member of 30 bananas a day. I was eating 8-18% fat and more than enough calories. I was working out. I felt great, and then, after a while, I didn't feel so great. I'd get insane blood sugar swings and be severely hypoglycemic between eating. It reached the point that I'd be constantly eating fruit yet still feeling hypoglycemic even whilst I was eating. I then got the most unbelievable, overwhelming pain in my upper left side which continued for a few days and I was terrified. Honestly the worst pain in the world. I posted in the 30BAD forum a number of times about it asking desperately for help, and was met with silence, or "drink more water"/ "eat more". It was a really scary time and I started arguing back, then I got an ultrasound done of my torso and it showed an enlarged pancreas. I discussed the report at length in the forum and the consensus was that I probably secretly binged on fat.

I was dealing with all of this on my own and was too terrified to tell anyone what I was going through, as they'd always seen me as such a poster for health. I decided to come off the HCLF diet, and when I stated that on the forum my account was deleted as were my posts.

I'm not suggesting that any particular diet is superior to any other, but I can confirm that the 30BAD crowd is a complete facade. No one helped me even though they all knew I was a vulnerable young girl with serious health issues going on (my glucose would dip to 2.5 between snacks, and I'd be frantically posting about whether I should go to hospital, only to be constantly put down). And when things went wrong, all evidence was deleted. Perhaps the high-pufa diet that seemed to be working so well for me actually damaged my pancreas, or perhaps the HCLF diet damaged my pancreas. I'll never know, but I was lucky to get away with it and I'll never trust that forum nor its gurus (for other, very good reasons) again!