Gallbladder drain experience (cholecystostomy)

[jackieg763]

Hi all. My dad- healthy 62 year old with no history of gallbladder attacks got a gallbladder drain put in 6 weeks ago. He went in with a minor gall infection and it room a week in the hospital for them to realize a hernia of 10 years had gotten so bad (he avoided removal and is a landscaper so daily aggravation of it) it caused some secondary infections including his gallbladder. At that point the drain had been put in day 3 and had to stay a minimum of 6 wks. Went to 6 wk appointment and now they say his gall opening is too narrow, though his bile out put (tubes lead to a bag and you can measure the bile production) has been consistent, plentiful and healthy. Doctors say 12 extra weeks of the tube or he can do the zippy surgery that’s a breeze. Whole thing felt like a sales pitch. We are attempting to avoid the removal at all costs. Has anyone had experience/success with gallbladder drain tubes rather than removal? He’s had no stones and the inflammation was minimal, the ER had sent him home day one and was considering the surgery voluntary bc inflammation was low up until his hernia was diagnosed as the source of all the issues. Now that we’re just trying f to get the tubes out they’re acting like the gallbladder issues were centric and disregarding our 11 day hospital stay journey solving the issue as hernia related, gallbladder issue being secondary. I appreciate all input!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hi all. My dad- healthy 62 year old with no history of gallbladder attacks got a gallbladder drain put in 6 weeks ago. He went in with a minor gall infection and it room a week in the hospital for them to realize a hernia of 10 years had gotten so bad (he avoided removal and is a landscaper so daily aggravation of it) it caused some secondary infections including his gallbladder. At that point the drain had been put in day 3 and had to stay a minimum of 6 wks. Went to 6 wk appointment and now they say his gall opening is too narrow, though his bile out put (tubes lead to a bag and you can measure the bile production) has been consistent, plentiful and healthy. Doctors say 12 extra weeks of the tube or he can do the zippy surgery that’s a breeze. Whole thing felt like a sales pitch. We are attempting to avoid the removal at all costs. Has anyone had experience/success with gallbladder drain tubes rather than removal? He’s had no stones and the inflammation was minimal, the ER had sent him home day one and was considering the surgery voluntary bc inflammation was low up until his hernia was diagnosed as the source of all the issues. Now that we’re just trying f to get the tubes out they’re acting like the gallbladder issues were centric and disregarding our 11 day hospital stay journey solving the issue as hernia related, gallbladder issue being secondary. I appreciate all input!

I would get a second opinion. I was feared into getting my gall bladder out 15+ years ago, because I had a gall bladder attack . I declined the gall bladder removal, changed my diet and never had a problem again.

 

[jackieg763]

I would get a second opinion. I was feared into getting my gall bladder out 15+ years ago, because I had a gall bladder attack . I declined the gall bladder removal, changed my diet and never had a problem again.

Thank you for reply! Yes, we are on your page. In his case, he currently has this tube draining his gallbladder and they said the imaging doesn’t show signs that it’s ready to come out even though we see good draining and zero gallbladder symptoms. We feel a bit stuck in their system because we cannot remove the tube at our will. Would love to hear if anyone successfully resolved gallbladder issues with the cholecystostomy tube whilst refusing removal. It’s another 12 weeks in their system (we’ve already done 6).

 

[EvanHinkle]

This might seem extreme/might be more of a last resort, but could you contact your health insurance company and ask them to stop payment for the procedure?

Alternatively, if you’re paying out of pocket, suggest politely that you will no longer need their services? Perhaps they’ll ask you to sign a waiver, but at least it would put you back in control of the situation.

I’ve refused lots of care in hospitals, (my two kids were born in them). My experience is that the nurses are happy to do nearly anything you ask and it’s only the doctors who will balk. That said, I’ve never had a doctor outright refuse my requests, (although it probably helps that I’m 6ft 200+ lbs). Do you have an intimidating relative you can have there for energetic support? I find that simply having a presence like that is a great help. Just be polite and do your best not to allow their condescending behavior to get to you. Remember that the medical personnel have been thoroughly doctrinated and “believe” most of what they’re pushing, so they’re unlikely to engage in logical dialog. Try to remain firm, cold, and calculated.

 

[Logan-]

I would get a second opinion. I was feared into getting my gall bladder out 15+ years ago, because I had a gall bladder attack . I declined the gall bladder removal, changed my diet and never had a problem again.

That’s interesting, good for you. Could you share, in some detail, what you have changed in your diet? A family member who is dear to me faces the same issue, I would like to learn from your experience and research. She has “porcelain gallbladder” and the doctors are trying to scare her into gallbladder removal.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That’s interesting, good for you. Could you share, in some detail, what you have changed in your diet? A family member who is dear to me faces the same issue, I would like to learn from your experience and research. She has “porcelain gallbladder” and the doctors are trying to scare her into gallbladder removal.

My issue is was stones blocking my gall bladder duct, so I would feel terrible after eating fatty foods, and eggs were the worst. Once I added milk back into my diet and got rid of the calcium supplements the stones stopped forming. I had read that calcium will build up in other places if you have your gall bladder out, so changing the diet is best, which was true because I was getting stones in my kidneys, pancreas and liver also. Lemon water or lemonade will help dissolve the calcium build up.

 

[Logan-]

My issue is was stones blocking my gall bladder duct, so I would feel terrible after eating fatty foods, and eggs were the worst. Once I added milk back into my diet and got rid of the calcium supplements the stones stopped forming. I had read that calcium will build up in other places if you have your gall bladder out, so changing the diet is best, which was true because I was getting stones in my kidneys, pancreas and liver also. Lemon water or lemonade will help dissolve the calcium build up.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you for sharing.

Anytime!

 

[J.R.K]

My issue is was stones blocking my gall bladder duct, so I would feel terrible after eating fatty foods, and eggs were the worst. Once I added milk back into my diet and got rid of the calcium supplements the stones stopped forming. I had read that calcium will build up in other places if you have your gall bladder out, so changing the diet is best, which was true because I was getting stones in my kidneys, pancreas and liver also. Lemon water or lemonade will help dissolve the calcium build up.

This sounds like a terrible painful story @Rinse& rePeat. If I might ask what kind of calcium supplements were you using?
My understanding is that high parathyroid hormone, will cause kidney stones, am I missing something. Do you think the calcium in the milk was more bio available than the calcium in the supplements in your case? Or might there have been a vitamin K deficiency that would not escort the calcium out of the tissues into the bones?

 

[area51puy]

Effects of estrogen upon bile: implications with respect to gallstone formation.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This study is from 1973 but they did a study where they injected estriol into monkeys and it reduced bile flow drastically for about 12 hours. The higher dose of estriol the higher drop in bile flow.

Effect of Endotoxin on Opossum Gallbladder Motility: A Model of Acalculous Cholecystitis

To determine whether endotoxin causes histologic changes in the gallbladder consistent with acalculous cholecystitis, and to determine the effects of endotoxin on gallbladder motility.Acute acalculous cholecystitis is frequently seen in critically ill, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of Endotoxin on Opossum Gallbladder Motility: A Model of Acalculous Cholecystitis​

So estrogen and endotoxin seem to have some effect on the gallbladder.

Maybe take some supplements to reduce estrogen and carrot salad and activated charcoal to help with endotoxin.

 

[youngsinatra]

Ray said that thyroid usually quickly restores normal gallbladder motility. I had gallbladder dyskinesia and thyroid helped.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“A new study finds that people with a history of kidney stones may have a higher risk of recurrence if they use calcium supplements. Researchers also said people taking calcium under a doctor's advice should consult a physician first before stopping.
One study by the Women’s Health Initiative found a 17% increase in women taking 500 mg of calcium and 2000 IU of vitamin D3 twice daily compared to those taking a placebo. Another study found similar evidence and a 20% increased risk in those taking calcium supplements.”


“Calcium from food sources does not have the same effect as calcium tablets. Studies suggest that a diet high in calcium-rich foods, such as low-fat dairy products, has been shown to lower the risk of kidney stones. This suggests that it may not be the calcium that causes the stones, but rather the way it is absorbed and processed by the body.“

https://healthnews.com/health-conditions/kidney-and-urologic-diseases/can-calcium-supplements-cause-kidney-stones/

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

This sounds like a terrible painful story @Rinse& rePeat. If I might ask what kind of calcium supplements were you using?
My understanding is that high parathyroid hormone, will cause kidney stones, am I missing something. Do you think the calcium in the milk was more bio available than the calcium in the supplements in your case? Or might there have been a vitamin K deficiency that would not escort the calcium out of the tissues into the bones?

I was using a liquid calcium magnesium.

All that I changed was cutting out the calcium supplement and started drinking milk again instead.

 

[J.R.K]

I was using a liquid calcium magnesium.

All that I changed was cutting out the calcium supplement and started drinking milk again instead.

I am looking at the last five items on the ingredients list, fructose, citric acid, xanthin gum, carrageenan specifically, as well as the type of calcium being citrate. These items are problematic carrageenan specifically has the issue of presorption.
I am wondering if these Ingredients might be a part of the stone issues you experienced @Rinse & rePeat?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I am looking at the last five items on the ingredients list, fructose, citric acid, xanthin gum, carrageenan specifically, as well as the type of calcium being citrate. These items are problematic carrageenan specifically has the issue of presorption.
I am wondering if these Ingredients might be a part of the stone issues you experienced @Rinse & rePeat?

There is no doubt those things are problematic JR, but the study I posted yesterday, with many more to find like it, suggest the calcium supplement itself is not easily usable.

 

[J.R.K]

There is no doubt those things are problematic JR, but the study I posted yesterday, with many more to find like it, suggest the calcium supplement itself is not easily usable.

Agreed what are your thoughts on eggshell calcium, for those that have trouble with milk?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Agreed what are your thoughts on eggshell calcium, for those that have trouble with milk?

I don’t know about that JR. i know that when I looked up using egg shells in making compost and it says that egg shells take a very long time to deteriorate, like a year. I don’t know how it would break down in the body quicker. I wonder if boiling the egg shells like a bone broth might make a more useable calcium, if even that method would break the shell down.

“If you split your eggshells into small fragments, it can take roughly one year for them to break down into the soil.”

How To Use Eggshells in Your Garden and Compost

From composting to creepy crawlies, say “shell yeah” to reducing waste by cracking the case on how to use eggshells in your garden.

blog.themodernmilkman.co.uk

 

[J.R.K]

I don’t know about that JR. i know that when I looked up using egg shells in making compost and it says that egg shells take a very long time to deteriorate, like a year. I don’t know how it would break down in the body quicker. I wonder if boiling the egg shells like a bone broth might make a more useable calcium, if even that method would break the shell down.

“If you split your eggshells into small fragments, it can take roughly one year for them to break down into the soil.”

How To Use Eggshells in Your Garden and Compost

From composting to creepy crawlies, say “shell yeah” to reducing waste by cracking the case on how to use eggshells in your garden.

blog.themodernmilkman.co.uk

The prescribed method on the forum is to boil them for a few minutes, then spread them onto a cookie sheet and bake them for twenty to thirty minutes. Then let them cool and grind them into a fine powder in a spice or coffee grinder.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

The prescribed method on the forum is to boil them for a few minutes, then spread them onto a cookie sheet and bake them for twenty to thirty minutes. Then let them cool and grind them into a fine powder in a spice or coffee grinder.

It seems absorbable enough….

“Calcium carbonate is the most common form of calcium in nature, making up seashells, coral reefs and limestone. It is also the cheapest and most widely available form of calcium in supplements.

Studies in rats and piglets confirm that eggshells are a rich calcium source. Moreover, they are absorbed as effectively as pure calcium carbonate (2Trusted Source, 5Trusted Source, 6Trusted Source).

Some even suggest its absorption is better than that of purified calcium carbonate supplements.

A study in isolated cells found that calcium absorption was up to 64% greater from eggshell powder compared to pure calcium carbonate. Researchers attributed these effects to certain proteins found in eggshells (1Trusted Source).

In addition to calcium and protein, eggshells also contain small amounts of other minerals, including strontium, fluoride, magnesium and selenium. Just like calcium, these minerals may play a role in bone health (3Trusted Source, 7Trusted Source, 8Trusted Source,”

The Benefits and Risks of Eating Eggshells

Eggshells are a cheap, natural source of calcium. This article looks at the risks and benefits of eggshell supplements.

www.healthline.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“It is important to get the right amount of calcium to consume. Too much calcium can cause hypercalcemia, kidney damage, and kidney stones.”

Is It Safe to Eat Eggshells? - eMediHealth

Eggshells are an excellent source of calcium. Learn how eggshells can benefit your bone and joint health and precautions to remember.

www.emedihealth.com