Eating LOW FAT Leads To Serious Gall Bladder Problems!

[Zpol]

The Black Russian Radish is one which contains a phytochemical known to detoxify the liver. Its main digestive strength is that it stimulates your liver to produce more bile and helps it flow more freely from your bile ducts to your stomach to neutralise excess stomach acid. It is rich in fibre, it speeds up your digestion, relieving constipation and colon back-up. It also boosts your immune system.

I just got a bottle of organic black radish to help with bile flow, GERD, and constipation. It says on the bottle not to take if you have hypothyroid. Also, I googled it and found that it is considered a goitrogen. Does anyone have experience with digestive aid? I'm so tempted to take it because my digestive issues are severe but I do have hypothyroid, never had a goiter though.

 

[Ella]

I would caution its use if you are low in copper. Many are, especially those eating restrictive diets. If you take it you will certainly know that it is not meant for you via anxiety attacks. This response will confirm low copper and if you are low in copper, probably calcium, required for tonal strength of the LES valve.

Have you been restrictive with your diet? Inadequate calories? Mineral deficients??? Thyroid function is dependent on many variables.
I have used it instead of chinese bitters in helping sluggish livers. In one young lass who was on thyroxine cleared a large mass (mass of fibre not tumour). It does have a technical name which escapes my memory. I had never heard of it at the time however, will never forget it. I was extremely impressed with the action of the black radish + ox bile. The girl had no sensoral perception of anything this large in her GIT until she saw it move from the region of her belly button and travel the length of her intestinal tract. No idea where it came from. Gallbladder?? IDK. Her digestion was very sluggish and had issue with constipation for probably all her life and prehaps this mass was due to accumulation of vegetable/food matter that had not made its way down to the lower bowels. Talk about slow motility and gut transit time.

If you are worried about goitrogens, then I would check iodine status. The lass I mentioned was critically low in iodine. Took a long time for it to come up to healthy levels. She was restricting calories severely following all the stupid food fads and being fat was seen as taboo in her family. He sisters had suffered from anorexia for fear of being fat. Sorry for labouring the point here but I feel it is important to illustrate how people (and their whole family) can get themselves into serious trouble.

Copper is interesting when it comes to severe gastrointestinal problems. It can drive one to the edge of insanity. Your tolerance for foods will increase once you address the copper issue. Your thyroid function will improve once you correct the copper issue. Copper is required to convert T4 to T3. Stay away from starch and make a list of all those foods that trigger GERD. Take them out until your situation improves. Don't try to guzzle orange juice as it will make your situation worse. Just because Peat says OJ is the bees knees it may not be right for you at this point in time. Correct all your mineral deficiences. Liver is excellent to upgrade minerals quickly. Oysters and shellfish-must be as fresh as fresh can be. If you are copper or iodine deficient, foods high in histidine will be converted to histamine. Keep these foods low in the diet until you build your reserves.

All of the above may not apply to your situation, everyone is different, so please follow-up with appropriate testing to confirm. Never guess or assume. I would hold off on the black radish until you have addressed all those minerals required for proper thyroid function.

 

[michael94]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9288141/

 

[Zpol]

I would caution its use if you are low in copper. Many are, especially those eating restrictive diets. If you take it you will certainly know that it is not meant for you via anxiety attacks. This response will confirm low copper and if you are low in copper, probably calcium, required for tonal strength of the LES valve.

I think I'm going to skip it. I do have many deficiencies so it's probably not safe.

If you are worried about goitrogens, then I would check iodine status. The lass I mentioned was critically low in iodine. Took a long time for it to come up to healthy levels. She was restricting calories severely following all the stupid food fads and being fat was seen as taboo in her family. He sisters had suffered from anorexia for fear of being fat. Sorry for labouring the point here but I feel it is important to illustrate how people (and their whole family) can get themselves into serious trouble.

I appreciate the story. I find anecdotal stories are beneficial when trying to see the big picture. I am going to have to get my iodine and selenium status checked. Do you think the blood serum test is adequate for these, particularly the iodine? I've read about the 24hour urine test too but not sure it's any more accurate than the blood serum test. I've done the patch test and the iodine disappeared with in minutes but I can't make heads or tails of the way to dose iodine, there's so much conflicting info out there... and then add in selenium, it's mind boggling to me.

Have you been restrictive with your diet? Inadequate calories? Mineral deficients??? Thyroid function is dependent on many variables.
I have used it instead of chinese bitters in helping sluggish livers. In one young lass who was on thyroxine cleared a large mass (mass of fibre not tumour). It does have a technical name which escapes my memory. I had never heard of it at the time however, will never forget it. I was extremely impressed with the action of the black radish + ox bile. The girl had no sensoral perception of anything this large in her GIT until she saw it move from the region of her belly button and travel the length of her intestinal tract. No idea where it came from. Gallbladder?? IDK. Her digestion was very sluggish and had issue with constipation for probably all her life and prehaps this mass was due to accumulation of vegetable/food matter that had not made its way down to the lower bowels. Talk about slow motility and gut transit time.

I am very restrictive with diet. I have Celiac but i get the same systemic autoimmune pain and rashes from other foods as well as gluten, including all dairy (except ghee), bone marrow soup, rice, corn, tomato, peppers, conventional eggs (pastured are fine), gums, even swedish bitters gives me a flare up. Also I have SIBO so got to stay low FODMAP, and have chronic gastritis so got to be careful with that as well.
I have determined the foods that flare up the GERD are boiled green veg soak water, most tea varieties (especially peppermint), liver (but not liver capsules). Interestingly, OJ, coffee, and chocolate do not exasperate GERD. I think my case is strange; it's more like my stomach and esophagus are always spasming, and my throat is always sore, independent of any food i eat (except for those I mentioned above), or how I sleep (left side vs right side). Also, anything active besides very light exercise seems to worsen it. I've lost almost all muscle mass.

Copper is interesting when it comes to severe gastrointestinal problems. It can drive one to the edge of insanity. Your tolerance for foods will increase once you address the copper issue. Your thyroid function will improve once you correct the copper issue. Copper is required to convert T4 to T3. Stay away from starch and make a list of all those foods that trigger GERD. Take them out until your situation improves. Don't try to guzzle orange juice as it will make your situation worse. Just because Peat says OJ is the bees knees it may not be right for you at this point in time. Correct all your mineral deficiences. Liver is excellent to upgrade minerals quickly. Oysters and shellfish-must be as fresh as fresh can be. If you are copper or iodine deficient, foods high in histidine will be converted to histamine. Keep these foods low in the diet until you build your reserves.

I had no idea copper was that big of problem. I thought most people had high copper and not enough zinc to balance. That said, I make sure to not overdo it with the Zinc supplements. I do have confirmed zinc deficiency. I read somewhere that gray hair is a sign of copper deficiency, I'm almost 40 and my hair is still naturally brown, auburn in the sunlight. This is not very scientific though; I'll get it checked! I also have a verified Magnesium deficiency which ties in with Copper and Zinc somehow... have to research that more to understand.

Edit; I forgot to mention starches. Yes I've been eating starches, specifically potatoes and arrowroot and occasionally tapioca. I've been leery on these; they don't cause any direct pain or discomfort but perhaps they are causing some deeper issue in my guts. I will have to eliminate them.

Thank you kindly for the thoughtful and informative reply!

 

[stargazer1111]

I think the main problem with the fruitarian diet is the lack of protein.

I suspect Kutcher's pancreatitis episode might be due to a lack of protein. I've been eating very high sugar for over a year now along with 100-120 grams of protein daily and have zero pancreas issues and my blood sugar is emaculate, especially when I keep fat below 10% of calories.

Protein is certainly needed for proper liver function and it might also be needed for proper pancreas function.

 

[baccheion]

I think the main problem with the fruitarian diet is the lack of protein.

I suspect Kutcher's pancreatitis episode might be due to a lack of protein. I've been eating very high sugar for over a year now along with 100-120 grams of protein daily and have zero pancreas issues and my blood sugar is emaculate, especially when I keep fat below 10% of calories.

Protein is certainly needed for proper liver function and it might also be needed for proper pancreas function.

Example day from CRON-o-meter or something? Any sign of oxidized LDL or anything else? Liver issues? Choline source?

 

[stargazer1111]

Example day from CRON-o-meter or something? Any sign of oxidized LDL or anything else? Liver issues? Choline source?

My diet shifted radically to very low fat recently.

For quite a long time it was:

Soda
Juice
fat-free milk powder
White sugar
beef/chicken
salt

I would get around 80-100 grams of fat, 300ish grams of sugar, 120ish grams of protein.

Now, with very low fat:

Soda
fat-free milk powder
White sugar
green beans/broccoli/cauliflower/carrots
White rice (small amounts)
Lean chicken breast
Shrimp
Crab meat

I get around 10 grams of fat, 400ish grams of carbs (most of which is sugar), 120ish grams of protein

Feel A LOT better with the very low fat. So many of my problems seem to be reversing FINALLY. My pants are a little looser already which is surprising.

But, I've had no pancreas/liver issues even before dropping the fat. Had a blood test a few months ago that showed a 205 total cholesterol and normal HDL/LDL.

 

[baccheion]

My diet shifted radically to very low fat recently.

For quite a long time it was:

Soda
Juice
fat-free milk powder
White sugar
beef/chicken
salt

I would get around 80-100 grams of fat, 300ish grams of sugar, 120ish grams of protein.

Now, with very low fat:

Soda
fat-free milk powder
White sugar
green beans/broccoli/cauliflower/carrots
White rice (small amounts)
Lean chicken breast
Shrimp
Crab meat

I get around 10 grams of fat, 400ish grams of carbs (most of which is sugar), 120ish grams of protein

Feel A LOT better with the very low fat. So many of my problems seem to be reversing FINALLY. My pants are a little looser already which is surprising.

But, I've had no pancreas/liver issues even before dropping the fat. Had a blood test a few months ago that showed a 205 total cholesterol and normal HDL/LDL.

What sort of juice (brand, etc)? How much protein from beef/chicken?

 

[stargazer1111]

What sort of juice (brand, etc)? How much protein from beef/chicken?

Store bought orange juice, grape juice.

Chicken was rare because it's bland. Mostly beef. Right at about 12 ounces of beef steak. The fatty cuts.

I dropped the red meat because of iron concerns so I don't even eat lean beef anymore.

 

[baccheion]

Store bought orange juice, grape juice.

Chicken was rare because it's bland. Mostly beef. Right at about 12 ounces of beef steak. The fatty cuts.

I dropped the red meat because of iron concerns so I don't even eat lean beef anymore.

Yea, which brand? Or does it not matter?

 

[stargazer1111]

Yea, which brand? Or does it not matter?

I realized later on that I don't tolerate store bought OJ so I quit buying it, regardless of brand. Grape juice brand doesn't seem to matter.

 

[stargazer1111]

I'm also intolerant to spices, especially garlic, so I avoid them. Vinegar seems to cause the same gastrointestinal distress as higher fat intake so I avoid it as well. The diet is bland, but worth it because my symptoms go away.

 

[Dolomite]

I am not as low fat as you @stargazer1111 but I eating more starch, sugar and protein in a bland diet and feel great. The food is mostly the same each day so if I add something and notice digestive problems I can stop the new thing. I ate spicy, hot food for years and never felt this good.

 

[robertf]

ayurvedic stuff: tridoshic theory says there are 3 body types. In combination there are total of 6 primary and secondary types, and 1 tridoshic type being equal of all properties.

Kapha=water,Pitta=fire,Vata=air

Kapha types do not do well on high fat (or sugar or dairy). These are the people that fail on Ray Peat dieting. Literally everything about the RP diet is bad for them even down to their need for rough fibers.

Pitta types do ok on moderate/low fat especially butter/ghee and coconut. Spicy foods will cause problems. Pitta has naturally strong digestion so they can plow through a lot of protein relatively easily, but the danger is too much and it might be difficult to recognize if you're not tuned in.

Vata types will likely be the success stories on high or moderate fats. Vata balances on fat, salt and sweet.

Bitter taste stimulates Pitta bile well. They can most likely do ok with low fat so long as bitter is present to stimulate bile. They can also do ok with fruity salady diets.

I think that hot spicy can also stimulate gall contractions, but this will only be compatible with kapha

I have not seen any talk of excess animal protein and gall problems. It's possible some information presented is not accurate. Someone can claim that their third cousin's stepson's grandaughter ate lots of cheeburgers and got gallstones!!! aha proof!!! Burgers are higher in protein than fat though. So I call attention to excess protein being the culprit, not fat. It is the excess animal protein not vegetable protein that causes the most problems. Raw animal protein freaks need not worry. Moderate animal protein intake seems compatible with Ray Peat theory.

The more important issue is bile solubility not gallbladder contraction. If your bile remains soluble through the extremes of your behaviors all it takes is a little push to get it moving. The thicker, more insoluble and stony, the more forceful the contractions needed. Solubility has lots and lots of lots of factors, some covered in this thread.

Gallstones can remain asymptomatic for years and years. So when you push those bile buttons and something bad happens it can be extremely difficult to accurately assess what's actually going on and pinpoint the real culprit.

Environment: the fruity diet people usually live close to the equator and that's a more appropriate diet for hot climates. The colder the environment the more animal stuff you need to keep the core warm.

 

[stargazer1111]

ayurvedic stuff: tridoshic theory says there are 3 body types. In combination there are total of 6 primary and secondary types, and 1 tridoshic type being equal of all properties.

Kapha=water,Pitta=fire,Vata=air

Kapha types do not do well on high fat (or sugar or dairy). These are the people that fail on Ray Peat dieting. Literally everything about the RP diet is bad for them even down to their need for rough fibers.

Pitta types do ok on moderate/low fat especially butter/ghee and coconut. Spicy foods will cause problems. Pitta has naturally strong digestion so they can plow through a lot of protein relatively easily, but the danger is too much and it might be difficult to recognize if you're not tuned in.

Vata types will likely be the success stories on high or moderate fats. Vata balances on fat, salt and sweet.

Bitter taste stimulates Pitta bile well. They can most likely do ok with low fat so long as bitter is present to stimulate bile. They can also do ok with fruity salady diets.

I think that hot spicy can also stimulate gall contractions, but this will only be compatible with kapha

I have not seen any talk of excess animal protein and gall problems. It's possible some information presented is not accurate. Someone can claim that their third cousin's stepson's grandaughter ate lots of cheeburgers and got gallstones!!! aha proof!!! Burgers are higher in protein than fat though. So I call attention to excess protein being the culprit, not fat. It is the excess animal protein not vegetable protein that causes the most problems. Raw animal protein freaks need not worry. Moderate animal protein intake seems compatible with Ray Peat theory.

The more important issue is bile solubility not gallbladder contraction. If your bile remains soluble through the extremes of your behaviors all it takes is a little push to get it moving. The thicker, more insoluble and stony, the more forceful the contractions needed. Solubility has lots and lots of lots of factors, some covered in this thread.

Gallstones can remain asymptomatic for years and years. So when you push those bile buttons and something bad happens it can be extremely difficult to accurately assess what's actually going on and pinpoint the real culprit.

Environment: the fruity diet people usually live close to the equator and that's a more appropriate diet for hot climates. The colder the environment the more animal stuff you need to keep the core warm.

What evidence is there that animal protein is harmful to the gallbladder? I have seen none.

 

[Motif]

I would caution its use if you are low in copper. Many are, especially those eating restrictive diets. If you take it you will certainly know that it is not meant for you via anxiety attacks. This response will confirm low copper and if you are low in copper, probably calcium, required for tonal strength of the LES valve.

Have you been restrictive with your diet? Inadequate calories? Mineral deficients??? Thyroid function is dependent on many variables.
I have used it instead of chinese bitters in helping sluggish livers. In one young lass who was on thyroxine cleared a large mass (mass of fibre not tumour). It does have a technical name which escapes my memory. I had never heard of it at the time however, will never forget it. I was extremely impressed with the action of the black radish + ox bile. The girl had no sensoral perception of anything this large in her GIT until she saw it move from the region of her belly button and travel the length of her intestinal tract. No idea where it came from. Gallbladder?? IDK. Her digestion was very sluggish and had issue with constipation for probably all her life and prehaps this mass was due to accumulation of vegetable/food matter that had not made its way down to the lower bowels. Talk about slow motility and gut transit time.

If you are worried about goitrogens, then I would check iodine status. The lass I mentioned was critically low in iodine. Took a long time for it to come up to healthy levels. She was restricting calories severely following all the stupid food fads and being fat was seen as taboo in her family. He sisters had suffered from anorexia for fear of being fat. Sorry for labouring the point here but I feel it is important to illustrate how people (and their whole family) can get themselves into serious trouble.

Copper is interesting when it comes to severe gastrointestinal problems. It can drive one to the edge of insanity. Your tolerance for foods will increase once you address the copper issue. Your thyroid function will improve once you correct the copper issue. Copper is required to convert T4 to T3. Stay away from starch and make a list of all those foods that trigger GERD. Take them out until your situation improves. Don't try to guzzle orange juice as it will make your situation worse. Just because Peat says OJ is the bees knees it may not be right for you at this point in time. Correct all your mineral deficiences. Liver is excellent to upgrade minerals quickly. Oysters and shellfish-must be as fresh as fresh can be. If you are copper or iodine deficient, foods high in histidine will be converted to histamine. Keep these foods low in the diet until you build your reserves.

All of the above may not apply to your situation, everyone is different, so please follow-up with appropriate testing to confirm. Never guess or assume. I would hold off on the black radish until you have addressed all those minerals required for proper thyroid function.

Hi!
Any food recommendations for low copper / zinc people?

I also have Gilbert syndrome and weak bile flow /bad fat digestion. The digestion in general is much better when I do something like rope jumping for example after meals.

Oh and histamine is still my Enemy unfortunately.

Would be thankful for advices!


@Ella oh and i only have one kidney since birth but I don’t know if this is a problem for me. Docs say everything is alright

 

[Dan the man]

High bilirubin is typically a marker of jaundice. Too much isnt good. Also bile is over 95% water. Gallstones and gallbladder issues are probably a combination of hypothyroidism, eating too much fat, and not pooping enough. Most lower their dietary fat to improve gallbladder health, not increase it. Many groups of people in the past ate a very low fat diet, and I havent heard of troubles like this before.

"hypothyroidism, eating too much fat, and not pooping enough". This past 2 week I ate copious amounts of fat (60% of macros, mostly in dairy and coconut oil) without lowering carbs (mostly fruit juice, some starch) and it constipated me. Now im trying fasting because my insides feel swollen a bit. Do you know any thing i can do to fix it?

Its not a chronic problem, my digestion was ok until it stared slowing down a month ago, realized too much fat these past few weeks.