Huge step in gallbladder function w/ TUDCA - now what?

fever257

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Nov 27, 2019
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Hey everyone,

So I think I'll consider this an update to my last major post: Please Help: Endotoxin Overload & Post-parasite Gut Disaster . In this post, I described my persistent and near-debilitating gut issues. I long suspected the issue was rooted in some kind of dysbiosis / SIBO issue. I now consider that (and others) a symptom of the problem, and let me explain why.

Around 3 weeks ago, I started taking the supplement TUDCA. At first, I just noticed a jump in pulse, temp, warmness, good mood, and the like. I knew it was very positively affecting my metabolism but I didn't know why. Then, for the first time in 2-3 years, I noticed that my stool had normalized. I can't put into words how profound this experience was - I genuinely forgot what it was like to have peaceful, agreeable, not stressful, and proper bowel movements. I forgot what it was like to have normal digestion.

My original motivation with taking TUDCA came from 2 things - the benefits I saw from doing coffee enemas (though I had to stop this because regular use caused a hemorrhoid), so I knew I had issues with my liver. Additionally, I tried using North American Herb & Spice's Oregano product, and while it was helpful for SIBO / periodontal disease, my stool was still not normalized. Both of these experiences led me to try TUDCA for my liver, though as I mentioned, its effect on my digestion has been more notable than anything.

From there, I started experimenting with Urea. I started small (40g-60g) but eventually, used large doses - 120g, and my body responded significantly. I was incapacitated for about a day, but now I can do 120g and be fine. I'm planning on continuing with these doses until I run out. I have exhibited signs of liver issues for years now, and was definitely concerned about cirrhosis & liver cancer, so i wanted to take advantage of Urea's benefits to ensure that my liver is in good shape. I really wanted peace of mind. But both TUDCA and Urea have put my liver in a much better place now. In fact, my under eye circles have pretty much dissipated for the first time in my whole life. Overall metabolic function seems to be doing much better, and like I said, I my digestion is finally back to normal (pre-finasteride & pre-giardiasis.)

But now, I've run into an issue. I tried, twice, to stop taking TUDCA, but my digestion was so abysmal that I had to resume the supplement the following day. Without TUDCA, my stool resembles sediment or just dirt, its not formed or easy to pass. Without TUDCA, it would resume Type 6 or 7 on the Bristol stool chart. With TUDCA, my stool is normal and healthy - I would say type 2 or 3. It's just normal stool, and now that I've gotten it again, I really don't want to lose it. So I don't know what to do when I'm not taking TUDCA.

Additionally, I've determined that my other liver/gut issues are actually downstream (See .)My SIBO/thrush, my poor digestion, low cholesterol, high triglycerides, endotoxin overload, etc - whatever they may be - are actually a result of my poor bile flow. I'm not sure if this is a correct assumption, but if my health improves in multiple areas with TUDCA, and then subsequently, declines in multiple areas without it, I would think that my issues are with bile more than anything.

So now I've kind of focused in on this bile flow issue/subject. My inquiry is less of a question and more of a request for advice. Does anyone have any experience with this subject? I've seen people discuss ox bile on here. While I would be open to trying that, I was really hoping that I could rectify the issue on my own, and not have to keep taking something for the rest of my life.

From my own research, it appears that I need to focus on cholegogs. I found a few essential oils that are supposed to help with liver function, and they are agrimony, dandelion, rosemary, and burdock root. Dandelion and Agrimony are considered to be especially good for the gallbladder and inducing bile flow, so I'm definitely looking at these. Also used milk thistle in the past and may try it again.

Other than those, I don't really have any other ideas about it. There's not a whole lot of information in Peat world about bile flow and I'm not aware of any dietary and/or lifestyle changes I need to make to rectify this.

I look forward to learning & the discussion here, thank you all so much in advance for your advice!
 

abm

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Feb 24, 2021
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I think you’re absolutely right about the liver/bile duct being the root cause of the digestive distress. Stagnant bile can cause a wide array of issues, considering that the liver processes hormones like testosterone and estrogen, vitamin and minerals, etc. In addition to agrimony and dandelion leaves, I would also try artichoke extract and eating beet roots and beet leaves. I would keep using the TUDCA as a means to an end, but I would incorporate those herbs to really try and cure the issue. Also, heavy metals and parasites (namely liver flukes) can be the culprits here, so I would also add in IP-6 inositol to chelate metals as well as black walnut hulls. Drink lots of water and eat enough fiber to excrete the toxins. By the way, if you’re going to use a parasite cleanse, stay away from wormwood or at least be mindful. It caused nerve damage in me that I managed to repair with Lion’s Mane, still not fun ;)
 

Epik

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TUDCA is hands down one of my favourite supplements... I also noticed the increased warmth, energy and stool quality within a few weeks of supplementing:
How much did you take? What do you think of supplementing with more than 2000mg per day?
 

Elize

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Jan 25, 2016
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907
I use oxbile much cheaper than TUDCA. I have no gallbladder. I also take 2 tablespoons of psyllium husk powder per day and have to keep on with both. Good stools and color. When I stop this I have yellowish skin and gut issues. TUDCA seems to be doing the same as oxbile.
1614266874597.png
 
Last edited:

NodeCerebri

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TUDCA is hands down one of my favourite supplements... I also noticed the increased warmth, energy and stool quality within a few weeks of supplementing:
Just wanted to jump in here quickly and say thank you for your videos. They’re always so helpful and profoundly researched, hopefully you’ll get the financial rewards into your e-commerce 👍🏼
 

NodeCerebri

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started experimenting with Urea. I started small (40g-60g) but eventually, used large doses - 120g, and my body responded significantly. I was incapacitated for about a day,
May I ask what “incapacitated for about a day” was in your case? I am also experimenting with Urea right now and your anecdote gave me the inspiration to try out TUDCA also. But my urea dosage is still very low because I want to approach it a bit carefully as I have edema and don’t know how this may affect all parts. But I also reacted very well to taurine digestion wise, taurine is also said to increase bile secretion.
 

fever257

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@NodeCerebri Urea had this effect on myself and a family member - essentially it gave me a pretty uncomfortable headache. it was not fun for the first time I took 120g. I had to drink plenty of water and kind-of nap it off, but after that initial dose, I've done the same multiple times and been fine.
 

NodeCerebri

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Yesssss this headache is what I’m talking about. It really scared me tbh so that I avoided higher doses. 🤔
Besides, how much and which kinds of protein do you eat? My stools always get better if I eat sufficient amounts of protein (>100g).
 

Michael Mohn

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Dec 7, 2019
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A high ratio of cholesterol to bile salts seems to pose a big problem for bile flow and gallbladder function. Thyroid can reduce cholesterol excretion into the gallbladder. Tudca increases bile salts. Oxbile seems to be a good crutch for short-term improvement of digestion. Carrot salad should help with removing excess cholesterol. My biggest problem with TUDCA is the astringent taste that will linger in the mouth for hours, do you use caps or is there something else that deals with the aftertaste of TUDCA?
 

mostlylurking

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So now I've kind of focused in on this bile flow issue/subject. My inquiry is less of a question and more of a request for advice. Does anyone have any experience with this subject? I've seen people discuss ox bile on here. While I would be open to trying that, I was really hoping that I could rectify the issue on my own, and not have to keep taking something for the rest of my life.
I've recently experienced massive improvement in the poop department by supplementing with high dose thiamine HCL.
some links:

High-dose vitamin B1 therapy prevents the development of experimental fatty liver driven by overnutrition

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter
 

Jayvee

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Easily my favorite supplement for its effects but it's almost too good and it makes me wonder if I am patching over something or even exacerbating something by becoming dependant in some way... Is that even plausible?
 

nikotrope

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I've had gut issues for a long time too. Although I haven't tried TUDCA, I tried a lot of things (ox bile, thiamine, taurine, etc) and they only work if I keep taking them.

I've recently tried glutamine in the morning on an empty stomach and just one dose of 5g improved my gut for a whole week. There's a lot of hate on glutamine on this forum but if the dosage is small and it's not taken every day I don't think it will be a problem.
 

Elize

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Which form of glutamine did you use? L glutamine or D glutamine?
 

fever257

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Hey guys, so I have an update....

I was taking TUDCA every morning - 2g for ~ 3-4 weeks, but only 1g at the end since I knew I had to ween myself off of it. I knew this would be an issue - and I wasn't at all stressing about it happening - but I'd be lying if I said I didnt quasi-predict it. Since stopping TUDCA (no dose yesterday morning, no dose this morning) I've really not been doing well. I:

-Woke up 4 or 5 times last night, this hasn't happened in at least a month or recent memory,
-Woke up this morning with sluggish eyelids, & inflamed eyes, sapped energy;(for me there is a huge connection between liver health & eye health, Chinese medicine recognizes this as well)
-Had some GERD/indigestion after my first meal,
-Was freezing for the better part of today,
-Have been extremely gassy throughout the day,
-Felt abdominal discomfort like pre-TUDCA states,
-Am pale,
-Have far less bowel movements, less in frequency and volume,
-Suspect I am somewhat constipated
-Bowel movements are softer yet harder to pass,
-Been mentally askew - lack of focus & drive, confused, unproductive, slow.
-Have had huge cravings for fatty foods

So yeah, I kind of saw this coming, but I didn't anticipate it to be this apparent. It makes me wonder if I was always in this subpar state, pre-TUDCA, for the 2-3 years after my health went awry. Which leads me to my next point. I would consider TUDCA to be the missing piece for me. It's my miracle supplement, my Panacea. I would be hard-pressed to find another like it. It put me in the high energy state - looking, feeling, and thinking really well. Similarly, and as I detailed above, coming off of it has been bad for me thus far. I feel that this confirms my suspicions of bile & liver issues. My digestion is obviously screwed up, and I have had issues with endotoxins and slow transit times before and without TUDCA, but I think that these are issues downstream. In fact, i think that almost all of my issues are downstream and stem from the root of the issue - which involves problems with bile. So I looked back at my original diagnosis, from late 2017, and this is what it reads, verbatim:

"The biopsies taken during your recent Colonoscopy and Upper Endoscopy revealed severe Giardiasis. Giardia usually spreads due to consuming contaminated water or food. It can also be transmitted person to person.

I have sent a prescription for metronidazole 500 mg tid for 14 days to your pharmacy. Usually treatment for only 5 days is required, but usually this is only detected in biopsies of the duodenum. You had it in the biopsies of the distal small intestine as well. Plus biopsies from the duodenum also revealed a severe inflammatory reaction and blunting of villi, the fingerlike projections in the small intestine that absorb your nutrients. Blunting of the villi can also occur due to Celiac disease, where people are sensitive to gluten, which is in wheat, barley and rye - but the blood test for Celiac's disease was negative.

There were also changes seen with acid reflux and focal active colitis in the right side of your colon. I would expect all of this to resole with successful treatment of Giardia."

Unfortunately, they did not resolve. And here I am, almost 4 years later. (Maybe drinking in between taking metronidazole was a horrible idea, afterall)

That being said, interestingly enough, I preemptively ordered a liver supplement since I knew I'd be stopping TUDCA. It is this product: Liver - Gallbladder Capsule and on another website, a description for it reads: "uses: duodenum inflammation (poor bile flow)." If these two things are synonymous with each other, this fact + my real, lived experience with TUDCA indicate that poor bile flow is the crux of my health issues. Am I reading too much into this or did I just completely identify the source of my health issues?
 

fever257

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@NodeCerebri I get at least 200g daily, from beef, eggs, cheese, milk, collagen, and bone broth.

@Jayvee see my above update, this issue you mention is exactly what I'm experiencing.

@Michael Mohn TUDCA is absolutely vile. I measure it & put it in Gelatin capsules from Health Natura. I wouldn't be able to take it otherwise.
 

Jayvee

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Sep 10, 2020
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@NodeCerebri I get at least 200g daily, from beef, eggs, cheese, milk, collagen, and bone broth.

@Jayvee see my above update, this issue you mention is exactly what I'm experiencing.

@Michael Mohn TUDCA is absolutely vile. I measure it & put it in Gelatin capsules from Health Natura. I wouldn't be able to take it otherwise.

Have you checked you blood sugars at all? I don’t know the mechanism of action (I presume by supporting the liver) but perhaps tudca was helping that and not taking it is causing them issues to come back? Your symptoms would match something like that (as they do many other things) 200g of protein would be my upper end and can make me feel sluggish as a chronic fatigue/pfs person but protein seems to be easier for me with TUDCA. Just a guess.
 
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