1. 10% Discount At RedLightMan.com For Ray Peat Forum Members!
    Click Here For More Information
    Dismiss Notice

Dangers Of Long Term Lysine Supplement Use

Discussion in 'Lysine' started by Zpol, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    I have gotten shingles twice in the last two years so I need up my Lysine to Arginine ratios. Muscle meat and fish are the only proteins I can handle right now (eggs and dairy causing Fibromyalgia flare ups). Additionally I'm beginning a zero fiber diet for Inflammatory Bowel disease. So basically, gelatin would be super helpful for me but there's way more Arginine than Lysine and I don't know if I can risk another shingles flare.
    Plus I've already had gallbladder issues, although switching to mostly coconut oil helped that.

    Any input would be appreciated!

    Found this on livestrong.com...

    GALLSTONES

    By causing an increase in total cholesterol levels, long-term lysine supplementation may also increase your risk of developing gallstones. Gallstones are solidified cholesterol deposits that accumulate in your gallbladder and hinder its proper function, causing potentially serious side effects. Gallstones may cause pain in your abdominal region, jaundice, fever, fullness, nausea and vomiting.

    CASE REPORT
    According to a case report published by the "American Journal of Kidney Diseases" in October 1996, lysine supplementation over a five-year period caused Fanconi syndrome and tubulointerstitial nephritis in a 44-year-old woman. These conditions both affect the kidneys and can cause permanent kidney damage and renal system failure. If you have weak or damaged kidneys, consult your physician before using a lysine supplement to make sure your kidneys are healthy enough for supplementation.
     
  2. paymanz

    paymanz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    1,505
    Gender:
    Male
    Live strong is not a reliable website,they provide no reference for their claim.

    You may do a search pubmed to see if there is any study to confirm these data.
     
  3. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    They have a menu to click on which lists the references but some of them I don't have access too. And some of them link to webpages which have even more links to references! I started reading them but I'm just going in circles. Some reports say it's safe long term and some say it's not safe, but they don't always mention dosages. I'm aware many people take like 3000 mg a day which definitely seems overboard.

    Also, there's the matter of whether people are taking with or without meals. My doc said to take between meals when I was having a flare up but if I'm using it as prevention, and to balance Arginine in food, then would I take with a meal?

    I've searched pubmed and didn't find anything specific as to dosage and long term use.
     
  4. sele

    sele Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2014
    Messages:
    206
    Gender:
    Female
    @Zpol
    Your fibromyalgia, IBD, and shingles are a result of high serotonin.
    You will find relief if you do everything to lower serotonin.
    It is very hard to know who to trust for information. It becomes easier once we clear our minds from preconceptions and open ourselves to experiment. :)
     
  5. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    Yes, serotonin keeps coming up in my research. I've noticed times in my life when I felt physically best coincided with being in novel situations or environments and falling in love. Unfortunately I can't keep these situations continually happening!... monotony always returns. Obviously this happens to everyone but this got me looking into dopamine (not enough, not functioning, or something) which then of course led to serotonin. So I have been thinking about and finding things to try to raise dopamine but perhaps I should focus on lowering serotonin or both.
    I do the raw carrot and cascara bark already. I'll look into finding more ways to decrease it.
    Plus I'll try some Taurine, see how that goes, and maybe look into cabergoline.

    I am having a hard time clearing my preconceptions. Maybe I've got to channel Galileo and do some thought experiments!

    I'm so overloaded with info though, it's hard to clear.
     
  6. sele

    sele Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2014
    Messages:
    206
    Gender:
    Female
    There are some dangers to long term use of cabergoline. I think it causes fibrosis.
    Cyproheptadine to lower serotonin and lisuride or bromocriptine for dopamine are better options.
    Oh and I love Galileo and the feeling of falling in love. :p
    The more you experiment, the smaller your load of info will become.
    My years of experiment has made one thing apparent: Ray Peat is right again!! :happy:
     
  7. Don

    Don Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    If sele is right, as I believe she probably is, then serotonin control may be all you need. It's highly effective with IBD, but it may also brighten mood considerably. Excess serotonin in the gut, causing IBD, can become excess serotonin in the blood, and therefore in the brain, which can result in a darker mental outlook. Cyproheptadine is likely to improve mood along with fixing IBD. It did for me.
     
  8. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    Good to know! I think the Cypro sounds promising. I will look into it for sure. I was just reading about lisuride, haven't learned anything about bromocriptine yet, but I'm sure a search on this forum will reveal much!

    Thank you for your replies!
     
  9. Birdie

    Birdie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,410
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    USA
    If I take more than 500mg of lysine daily, I develop angina. I'd always read that lysine was not for long term use, but that doesn't mean it is so. However, in my case, it seems to be.

    I've gone through trials several times and always end up the same.

    I. Also suffer IBS.
    Would like to try cyproheptadine. Looked into it a few years back.

    @Don , did you use haidut's? Where do we find that?
     
  10. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    I second that question.
    I've done some preliminary research on it, it appears there is a possible side effect of constipation... I don't know if that means just initially or every time it's taken.

    @Birdie ...whoa angina... not fun. Thank you for this input.
     
  11. Birdie

    Birdie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,410
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    USA
    Argh. Constipation. That must be why I decided not to try it a few years ago.

    Angina is heart pain.
     
  12. Don

    Don Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    You can find cyproheptadine on Haidut's site: IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery - Laboratory Research Chemicals. There are other places to order off the net, but I like Haidut's version. You can read about its many benefits here: Cyproheptadine - Antihistamine And Antiserotonin For R&D

    For angina, I find menatetrenone (a version of vitamin K) very effective. I have different versions, but Haidut's version is the one I find most effective. He calls it Kuinone, and it's on a different page of his site: IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery. You can read about Kuinone here: Kuinone - Liquid, High-dose Vitamin K2 (MK-4) Supplement

    Note that cyproheptadine has some side effects, but the stuff is beneficial in so many ways that I don't mind. And besides, I'm down to just one drop per day, which leaves me with no side effects and all benefit.

    Menatetrenone seems to have no side effects at all. All good, no bad.
     
  13. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    59
    didnt linus pauling recommend lysine and vitamin c for heart health. he lived into his 90s im pretty sure
     
  14. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    I just read through another thread on this forum in regards to constipation as a side effect. I found this theory from @tara ...
    "Cyproheptadine -> less serotonin in gut -> reduced gut peristalsis if it was dependent on serotonin -> more or less constipation, depending on the state of your gut and thyroid function"

    Also, some others mentioned that the side effects only last about a week.
     
  15. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    Thanks! I was just about to place and order from Haidut's, I'll add this to it.

    I don't know but I will look into this. I've read a lot by Linus Pauling on Vit. C but disregarded it all because I couldn't find a clean supplement. But I saw on toxinless.com there are some clean recommendations that I could try.

    I think ultimately the safe way to take it would be to dose with as little as possible to balance Arginine, and not too much to overburden your kidneys. But to find that magic dose?!
     
  16. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    449
    Gender:
    Male
    This could be due to nitric oxide production. I know that arginine, another epsilon amino acid, is used to create NO in the body.
    The lysine is used to bind lipoprotein(a), which it has a natural affinity for. This has been proven on the affinity cromatography column. Pauling and Rath believe that lipoprotein(a) binds with lysine on arterial walls initiating plaque formation. The ascorbate hydroxylates and crosslinks the lysine residues, stabilizing collagen. It is thought that only uncrosslinked collagen initiates plaques.
    If apolipoprotein(a) binds to a free supplemental lysine, then it obviously cannot bind to the lysine on arterial walls. This is the extent of the logic behind lysine supplementation for cardiovascular disease.

    [edit] It appears that lysine supplementation actually decreases NO production by inhibiting the cellular transport of arginine. The results were suprisingly powerful:
    Effect of l-lysine on nitric oxide overproduction in endotoxic shock

     
  17. Don

    Don Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    60
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure thing. Hit me back if you have any questions about dosage or whatever once you get it. (And his service is excellent, so it might be soon.)
     
  18. Joeyd

    Joeyd Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    59
    i think now foods vitamin c crystals are great
     
  19. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    Awesome thanks! I will!
    I'm thinking I will start at a very low dose then go up to as much as i can tolerate.
     
  20. OP
    Zpol

    Zpol Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Female
    Do you know the source of this?
     
Loading...