Dietary Oils Management

[Ell]

Regulating my own intake o food, oils, including particularly the oils in my diet containing polyunsaturated chains, has been a big challenge. Compared to other matters relating to minerals, vitamins, & cet., managing the oils has been the most difficult. I meant this from the standpoint of incorporating a methodology it into my very being. It is not like, say, taking a selenium pill. I mean, with Se, or iodine, vitamin C, etc.... one just takes a pill of something, to remedy the deficiency. Not so easy with the oils. I read Dr. Peat's materials long ago, and at that time he was one of the early ones pointing out that excesses of the "wrong" fats seemed to be in commonplace, along with some others like Dr. Enig. As I see it now, a main issue is rancid oils. Whether a person knows it or not, most of the common foods contain rancid oils. It is the rancid PUFA's that are the problem, and it is because air-oxidation/polymerization creates different moleculear structures of oxidation products, than does the natural, normal enymatically controlled oxidation of PUFA's in a bio system, like my body. Rancid oils cause all sorts of trouble including even the big C. PUFA's are soooo important to immunity, but when a person habitully ingests excessive amts of "wrong" oils, like the restaurant eaters are huge violators, then it is like a vitamin B1 deficiency insomuch as it can manifest in several different ways. This puts the MD's at a disadvantage to get to the root of many patients' presentations. Imagine a person deficient in B1 and who is also eating crapola lipids !! No MD anywhere can ever help them, out of practicality in practice, unless they're looking for it ! How can a person shift their lipids intake from a shittty one to a better one ? Slowly. Incrementally. It is the same opposite way that Hemingway quipped on "How does a person go broke?" The answer is... you do it slowly for a while, then it happens all of a sudden. I like to think, I have my oils down pretty durn good. Thanks to The Almighty, every day, for leading me on this wonderful journey. Dietary Oils Management takes as much discipine, as it does knowledge.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Regulating my own intake o food, oils, including particularly the oils in my diet containing polyunsaturated chains, has been a big challenge. Compared to other matters relating to minerals, vitamins, & cet., managing the oils has been the most difficult. I meant this from the standpoint of incorporating a methodology it into my very being. It is not like, say, taking a selenium pill. I mean, with Se, or iodine, vitamin C, etc.... one just takes a pill of something, to remedy the deficiency. Not so easy with the oils. I read Dr. Peat's materials long ago, and at that time he was one of the early ones pointing out that excesses of the "wrong" fats seemed to be in commonplace, along with some others like Dr. Enig. As I see it now, a main issue is rancid oils. Whether a person knows it or not, most of the common foods contain rancid oils. It is the rancid PUFA's that are the problem, and it is because air-oxidation/polymerization creates different moleculear structures of oxidation products, than does the natural, normal enymatically controlled oxidation of PUFA's in a bio system, like my body. Rancid oils cause all sorts of trouble including even the big C. PUFA's are soooo important to immunity, but when a person habitully ingests excessive amts of "wrong" oils, like the restaurant eaters are huge violators, then it is like a vitamin B1 deficiency insomuch as it can manifest in several different ways. This puts the MD's at a disadvantage to get to the root of many patients' presentations. Imagine a person deficient in B1 and who is also eating crapola lipids !! No MD anywhere can ever help them, out of practicality in practice, unless they're looking for it ! How can a person shift their lipids intake from a shittty one to a better one ? Slowly. Incrementally. It is the same opposite way that Hemingway quipped on "How does a person go broke?" The answer is... you do it slowly for a while, then it happens all of a sudden. I like to think, I have my oils down pretty durn good. Thanks to The Almighty, every day, for leading me on this wonderful journey. Dietary Oils Management takes as much discipine, as it does knowledge.

I don't use any oils except coconut oil and ghee, and a drizzle of olive oil once in a great while. As an avid cook it was hard at first to give up toasted sesame oil, but it I did. Ultimately our health should come before a moment of pleasure chewing. Restaurants are tough to navigate through and so toxic, as you said. Ine has to be eating pretty bad at home to consider a restaurant trip a treat! When i find myself in a restaurant situation I order grilled items like steak and take an aspirin afterwards and cross my fingers when I am done with my meal. I agree with you that because of bad diets and doctors not asking anything about them, I don't know how they accurately diagnose or cure anything!

 

[Ell]

I don't use any oils except coconut oil and ghee, and a drizzle of olive oil once in a great while. As an avid cook it was hard at first to give up toasted sesame oil, but it I did. Ultimately our health should come before a moment of pleasure chewing. Restaurants are tough to navigate through and so toxic, as you said. Ine has to be eating pretty bad at home to consider a restaurant trip a treat! When i find myself in a restaurant situation I order grilled items like steak and take an aspirin afterwards and cross my fingers when I am done with my meal. I agree with you that because of bad diets and doctors not asking anything about them, I don't know how they accurately diagnose or cure anything!

I can't say much, except, if one looks at natural intake of where linoleic and linoleNic occur in foods, these molecules are replete in nuts, vegetables, meat and more. "Conjugated double bonds" as occur in polyunsaturates are highly reactive with halogens, oxygen and the thiols in some proteins. If we make them in the lab, we get explosive peroxides. This is what is going on in the body too, we get explosive molecules which can literally "blow up "pathogens, xenobiotics and more. But if our diet does not include those polyunsaturated materials, then we deprive ourselves of our tertiary oxidation system. One issue is, that heat destroys the structures, so basically "toasted" sesame oil is, I would say "medicinall-useless." It would have to be not toasted, never subject to heat above body temp or exposed to the air. When flour is milled, the oils are exposed and the shelf life of fresh flour is about the same as fresh milk, 7-10 days. This is why the mills remove all the wheat germ oil, so the flour has a 2-3 shelf life instead of two weeks. We know from 100 years of literature that rancid (oxidized and/or polymerized) oils are carcinogenic. One xample is, commercial bread. Typically, begins with the flour which has had its oils removed, then soybean oil is added and bread is made. How much rancidity is in a loaf of bread or a hamburger bun ? Not much, it might not even be detectable by the tongue, but it is there. Anytime you have a poly oil and heat and O2, you get rancidity. So, commercial bread is a little bit at a time. Oooh, look at all I wrote ! It could have been condensed to: "I never (knowingly) eat PUFA's which have been heated above body temp." PUFA's are definitely medicine, but they are delicate and need protection from heat and air and need to be handled with care. A blanket "bashing" or pufa's is a mis-interpretation of Peat , we are intended to eat these things, in appropriate amounts. I was like you about 15 years ago, I only ate coconut and butter and olive once in a while. What saved me was eating sardines and liver all the time, as I always have. The best pufa's are in raw liver, according to me. :)
Are you a coffee person ?

 

[CLASH]

See attached

 

[Lollipop2]

See attached

Everyone on this forum should read this. Ray has most definitely understood this waaaay ahead of the world at large.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I can't say much, except, if one looks at natural intake of where linoleic and linoleNic occur in foods, these molecules are replete in nuts, vegetables, meat and more. "Conjugated double bonds" as occur in polyunsaturates are highly reactive with halogens, oxygen and the thiols in some proteins. If we make them in the lab, we get explosive peroxides. This is what is going on in the body too, we get explosive molecules which can literally "blow up "pathogens, xenobiotics and more. But if our diet does not include those polyunsaturated materials, then we deprive ourselves of our tertiary oxidation system. One issue is, that heat destroys the structures, so basically "toasted" sesame oil is, I would say "medicinall-useless." It would have to be not toasted, never subject to heat above body temp or exposed to the air. When flour is milled, the oils are exposed and the shelf life of fresh flour is about the same as fresh milk, 7-10 days. This is why the mills remove all the wheat germ oil, so the flour has a 2-3 shelf life instead of two weeks. We know from 100 years of literature that rancid (oxidized and/or polymerized) oils are carcinogenic. One xample is, commercial bread. Typically, begins with the flour which has had its oils removed, then soybean oil is added and bread is made. How much rancidity is in a loaf of bread or a hamburger bun ? Not much, it might not even be detectable by the tongue, but it is there. Anytime you have a poly oil and heat and O2, you get rancidity. So, commercial bread is a little bit at a time. Oooh, look at all I wrote ! It could have been condensed to: "I never (knowingly) eat PUFA's which have been heated above body temp." PUFA's are definitely medicine, but they are delicate and need protection from heat and air and need to be handled with care. A blanket "bashing" or pufa's is a mis-interpretation of Peat , we are intended to eat these things, in appropriate amounts. I was like you about 15 years ago, I only ate coconut and butter and olive once in a while. What saved me was eating sardines and liver all the time, as I always have. The best pufa's are in raw liver, according to me. :)
Are you a coffee person ?

I do drink coffee. I never did my whole life until I was 32 years old. I can't add anything to the medicinal properties of unsaturated fats cause I have not read that myself. So puting that aside PUFA's are stored in our skin so when sun or hot water and just being under a blanket or jacket and sweating starts is enough to make them unstable.

"The oxidative deterioration of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in culinary oils and fats during episodes of heating associated with normal usage (80-300 degrees C, 20-40 min) has been monitored by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR)."

Analytical evaluation of polyunsaturated fatty acids degradation during thermal oxidation of edible oils by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy - PubMed

The oxidative deterioration of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in culinary oils and fats during episodes of heating associated with normal usage (80-300 degrees C, 20-40 min) has been monitored by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR). The thermal oxidation of PUFAs is a free...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Ell]

I do drink coffee. I never did my whole life until I was 32 years old. I can't add anything to the medicinal properties of unsaturated fats cause I have not read that myself. So puting that aside PUFA's are stored in our skin so when sun or hot water and just being under a blanket or jacket and sweating starts is enough to make them unstable.

"The oxidative deterioration of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in culinary oils and fats during episodes of heating associated with normal usage (80-300 degrees C, 20-40 min) has been monitored by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR)."

Analytical evaluation of polyunsaturated fatty acids degradation during thermal oxidation of edible oils by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy - PubMed

The oxidative deterioration of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) in culinary oils and fats during episodes of heating associated with normal usage (80-300 degrees C, 20-40 min) has been monitored by Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR). The thermal oxidation of PUFAs is a free...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah, never heat pufa's and eat them. A huge topic is the Fat-Thyroid-Iodine balance. We see two kinds of PUFA in a healthy person such as a Hunza. These are the Neutral fats; and 2) the more "sessile" fats which aren't as mobile. The brain contains a huge amount of arachidonic acid (ca 17% or so), which is a PUFA, but it is not mobile. The brain is the most oxidative organ in the body, possibly beat out by heart. Definitely those two contain the most sessile PUFA reserves. However, other organs, and I think it is in this descending order of pufa content: suprarenals, kidney, liver, splene, gonads. All contain PUFA's.

One really can't discuss pufa's without considering iodine. I mean, when pufa's in the form of vitamin F are administered, we see about a 300% increase in the plasma levels of iodine as a result. This shows there's a clear connection between pufa's and thyroid. But, as David Brownstein reports, 97% of the patients who come to his clinic are iodine-deficient and most are severely deficient. What happens when an iodine-deficient is given more pufa's in their diet ? That's a hidden theme of what R. Peat was talking about. More pufa's in the absence of iodine sufficiency is a huge monkey-wrench in the health machine.

I approached it from the standpoint of becoming iodine-sufficient, and after that I controlled my oils, to sort of match my intake of lipids which require iodine. Fortunately, the body is smart and if the kidneys are good, the body just pisses out any xs iodine. The main issue is to keep the BAD fats out, which means basically any commercial foods, because of the high reactivity of pufa's and their tendency to un-detectable levels of rancidity. You get a tiny bit a day, over time. Its like the fluoride thing. PUFA's need to be ingested when they're fresh.

There's some molecules called delta 6 lactones which involve iodine and some of the pufa's, and these materials are carcino-lytic, there's much in the literature on it for those curious. Since both iodine and the correct pufa's are needed for these lactones to be formed in our organs like breast, prostate, etc., I thought it prudent for myself to investigate how I might make conditions perpetually correct for their formation and action. !!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"The unsaturated oils have been identified as a major factor in skin
aging. For example, two groups of rabbits were fed diets
containing either corn oil or coconut oil, and their backs were
shaved, so sunlight could fall directly onto their skin. The
animals that ate corn oil developed prematurely wrinkled skin,
while the animals that ate coconut oil didn’t show any harm from
the sun exposure. In a study at the University of California,
photographs of two groups of people were selected, pairing people
of the same age, one who had eaten an unsaturated fat rich diet,
the other who had eaten a diet low in unsaturated fats. A panel of
judges was asked to sort them by their apparent ages, and the
subjects who consumed larger amounts of the unsaturated oils were
consistently judged to be older than those who ate less, showing
the same age-accelerating effects of the unsaturated oils that were
demonstrated by the rabbit experiments." -Ray Peat

 

[Ell]

"The unsaturated oils have been ........by the rabbit experiments." -Ray Peat

One problem with that statement is that unsaturated oils is s generic term, and encompasses literally millions of molecules. No mention is made three important factors relating to skin, namely the K-series of vitamins, as well as "Vit A," and "Vit D". To me, its irrelevant, any rabbit testing on skin, because rabbits and furry creatures are engineered to not have direct sunlight ever impinge much of their skin. I will make one statement, as one example, and that is, that benign prostatic hyperplasia is definitely a PUFA deficiency. I also believe that ppl who lump all PUFA's into one category, and call them all "bad", are short-sighted, because it has been know since at least 1934, the value of "Vitamin F" Did you know that rabbits can ingest a relatively large amount of methanol, without any problem, but if a human drinks just a tiny bit, they go blind ? There are soooo many differences btw. ppl and rabbits, I mean, just look at them ! Besides, rabbits aren't kosher.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

One problem with that statement is that unsaturated oils is s generic term, and encompasses literally millions of molecules. No mention is made three important factors relating to skin, namely the K-series of vitamins, as well as "Vit A," and "Vit D". To me, its irrelevant, any rabbit testing on skin, because rabbits and furry creatures are engineered to not have direct sunlight ever impinge much of their skin. I will make one statement, as one example, and that is, that benign prostatic hyperplasia is definitely a PUFA deficiency. I also believe that ppl who lump all PUFA's into one category, and call them all "bad", are short-sighted, because it has been know since at least 1934, the value of "Vitamin F" Did you know that rabbits can ingest a relatively large amount of methanol, without any problem, but if a human drinks just a tiny bit, they go blind ? There are soooo many differences btw. ppl and rabbits, I mean, just look at them ! Besides, rabbits aren't kosher.

The rabbit study had two groups of rabbits and the group that were PUFA free did not burn and the other group that ate PUFA's. So it doesn't matter if rabbits are designed for sun on their skin. It may actually be why they used rabbits. The study wasn't about rabbits or humans, it was about PUFA's, heat and skin. They could have used a thicker skinned mammal or even humans, but I am sure thin skinned rabbits got the experiment done quicker. Skin is skin.

 

[Ell]

The rabbit study had two groups of rabbits and the group that were PUFA free did not burn and the other group that ate PUFA's. So it doesn't matter if rabbits are designed for sun on their skin. It may actually be why they used rabbits. The study wasn't about rabbits or humans, it was about PUFA's, heat and skin. They could have used a thicker skinned mammal or even humans, but I am sure thin skinned rabbits got the experiment done quicker. Skin is skin.

ok. Good luck.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

ok. Good luck.

I enjoyed your intelligence! We can agree to disagree :)

 

[Jam]

The only solution is to eliminate all seed oils from the diet, and replace them, if required, with small amounts of extra virgin olive oil, coconut oil, or other such "healthy" fruit oils. More than enough of the "essential" fatty acids are present in dairy, ruminant fat and seafood, there is absolutely no need to over-think this.

 

[Jam]

That said, you bring up a very interesting subject which has greatly interested me for quite some time, that is, to quote the title from a study by prominent iodine researcher Sebastiano Venturi: "Iodine, PUFAs and Iodolipids in Health and Diseases: an evolutionary perspective." I find his research on the subject fascinating.

 

[Jam]

(PDF) Controversy in the content and action of human extrathyroidal iodine

PDF | Total body iodine (I) content was reported in many studies of medical literature. But only thyroidal iodine content has been well estimate (by... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

"In the cells, iodide acts as an electron donor in the presence of H2O2 and peroxidases. The remaining iodine atom readily iodinates tyrosine, histidine and unsaturated lipids, and thus neutralizes its own oxidant power (Table A & Table B). The membrane metabolites of PUFAs have an essential role in intercellular biochemical communications. Venturi has suggested that iodine (and selenium) played an important role in protecting fragile, polyunsaturated membrane lipids, proteins and DNA from oxidation, and for this reason, these elements are important in animal development and in human brain evolution [ 17-19, 29, 30 ]"

 

[Jam]

ps. I also follow Albert Szent-Györgyi's philosophy regarding orthoiodide supplementation by taking anywhere from 250mg-1g of KI daily, for the past few years, with occasional breaks. This is perhaps the only area where I disagree with Peat -- I don't think he has done enough research on the subject, and/or has let mainstream propaganda and the crusade to discredit iodine by big pharma obscure his vision. Unfortunately, serious research on iodine has been suppressed and a lot of it has been (unjustly) tainted by being associated with a for-profit enterprise (Iodoral).

 

[Ell]

ps. I also follow Albert Szent-Györgyi's philosophy regarding orthoiodide supplementation by taking anywhere from 250mg-1g of KI daily, for the past few years, with occasional breaks. This is perhaps the only area where I disagree with Peat -- I don't think he has done enough research on the subject, and/or has let mainstream propaganda and the crusade to discredit iodine by big pharma obscure his vision. Unfortunately, serious research on iodine has been suppressed and a lot of it has been (unjustly) tainted by being associated with a for-profit enterprise (Iodoral).

yeah, all that stuff you posted is known. As far as Dr. Peat, one has to put it in the right context, and consider who his main audience was, and his message. Maybe I'm wrong but I think his intended audience was the laiety, just regular foll. And he delivered the message in a way that woke a lot of people up to the fact that they were hyperly-over-consuming some oils, which were basically forced on the food processors by the oil-seed giants. My message in these postings, is for folk who have been led to blanketly believe all PUFA's are bad, to re-think this position because it is well-established a long time, the necessitiy for many pufas in our diet to make our bodies operate on a higher level of oxidation. Dr. Venturi's material is good but hasn't been updated for quite some time. J. Flechas MD is retired, G. Abraham MD passed on about 10 yrs ago, and D. Brownstein still practices. If you are interested in learning more, I believe the optimox dot com website has a "research" link directing to a listing of some good data.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

“Their [polyunsaturated oils] best understood effect is their interference with the function of the thyroid gland. Unsaturated oils block thyroid hormone secretion, its movement in the circulatory system, and the response of tissues to the hormone. By 1950, then, it was established that unsaturated fats suppress the metabolic rate, apparently creating hypothyroidism. The more unsaturated the oils are, the more specifically they suppress tissue response to thyroid hormone, and transport of the hormone on the thyroid transport protein. And in 1980, experimenters demonstrated that young rats fed milk containing soy oil incorporated the oil directly into their brain cells, and had structurally abnormal brain cells as a result.” -Ray Peat

 

[Ell]

I enjoyed your intelligence! We can agree to disagree :)

“Their [polyunsaturated oils] best understood effect is their interference with the function of the thyroid gland. Unsaturated oils block thyroid hormone secretion, its movement in the circulatory system, and the response of tissues to the hormone. By 1950, then, it was established that unsaturated fats suppress the metabolic rate, apparently creating hypothyroidism. The more unsaturated the oils are, the more specifically they suppress tissue response to thyroid hormone, and transport of the hormone on the thyroid transport protein. And in 1980, experimenters demonstrated that young rats fed milk containing soy oil incorporated the oil directly into their brain cells, and had structurally abnormal brain cells as a result.” -Ray Peat

That is sooooo wrong !!

 

[Ell]

“Their [polyunsaturated oils] best understood effect is their interference with the function of the thyroid gland. Unsaturated oils block thyroid hormone secretion, its movement in the circulatory system, and the response of tissues to the hormone. By 1950, then, it was established that unsaturated fats suppress the metabolic rate, apparently creating hypothyroidism. The more unsaturated the oils are, the more specifically they suppress tissue response to thyroid hormone, and transport of the hormone on the thyroid transport protein. And in 1980, experimenters demonstrated that young rats fed milk containing soy oil incorporated the oil directly into their brain cells, and had structurally abnormal brain cells as a result.” -Ray Peat

Maybe this helps: http://www.westonaprice.org/wp-content/uploads/TheFatSolubleActivators.pdf