"Fermented" Fish Oil/Oxidized PUFA Causes 5 Heart Attacks

[SOMO]

FCLO (Fermented Cod Liver Oil) might just be the most toxic supplement out there.

If anyone hasn't already heard about FCLO, this is what first tipped me off that PUFAs might be problematic.

I remember seeing this product before and wondering WHY the **** extra-smelly fish oil is so expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/Green-Pastur...pID=41kgBWnUu9L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

$45 for 8 oz?
Also the fact that only one company in the world knows how to make this product is extremely suspect.


Around 16:35 mark in video they begin talking about how this naturopath + 4 other people ALL GOT HEART ATTACKS WHILE USING FERMENTED COD LIVER OIL.

If regular Fish Oil PUFA is heavily oxidized.. imagine taking that same oxidized Fish Oil and leaving it in a hot, bacteria-filled tank, under the hot sun:

Question to FCLO manufacturer: Do you solar activate your oils as Dr. Price did early in the 20th century?

We solar activate all our products as Dr Weston A Price did. Solar activation is simply exposing the product to the sun. Our Plant is a solar plant and we ensure that all our oils are exposed the the sun, moon and stars.

LOL, how could this possibly be healthy?
You can't lacto-ferment oils/lipids btw, only carbohydrates.
There's no such thing as fermented oil. There is only rancid oil. There is such a thing as fermented veggies though. If fermentation of lipids did occur, it would break down into FFAs, which would be EVEN MORE TOXIC than the whole fish oil.

This stuff is so rancid/toxic tasting, parents have to "trick" their kids into taking it. Maybe the child knows better than the parent, because the child is better in-tune with their natural instincts than the socially-conditioned adult is. Socially-conditioned adult thinks "I read this is healthy, so it must be and I will force myself to take it even if unpleasant." But socially-unconditioned child thinks: "There's no way I'm supposed to consume that." The child's internal navigation system and instincts are clearly functioning better than its parents.

Even though a former Weston A Price Foundation vice-president did an expose about this product, there are many who still don't know and this product is still being sold (even though there's a good chance it's quite literally causing heart attacks.)

The manufacturer, David Wetzel, is a relative of Sally Fallon (WAPF President) and seems to have no qualms about selling this oxidized oil to unsuspecting people, even suggesting they store the opened bottles in a cupboard lol:

Shame on the Weston A Price Foundation for peddling this ***t. Hopefully WAPF rethinks their stance on PUFA, and this story highlights why PUFA can be damaging, even in the context of an otherwise healthy diet/lifestyle (as a naturopath would have.)


What ever happened to eating seafood? There's so many seafood dishes one can have if they genuinely want to increase their Omega-3 intake, why subject yourself to this foul-tasting/smelling oil when you could just have some lightly-cooked salmon or sushi.

 

[Regina]

Some years ago, maybe 6 yrs ago, I was getting sick and staying low-grade sick for long time frame. This was before my Peating and also before my Jaminet Perfect Health Diet. I was still eating gluten, etc. I ended up on Dr. Ron's website and asked some lame question. The next day, my landline phone rang and it was Dr. Ron. He was so sweet. He just talked to me and had a hand-wringing sound to his voice. He wasn't trying to sell me anything. I asked him if he thought I should take thymus. He said, "Oh, I don't know." I mean, he really sounded worried. I ended up telling him I was feeling better just so he would feel better.
My two cents. He's a sweet person.

 

[Arrade]

That sounds ducked @SOMO somebody should really get them to stop selling this!
I remember taking fish oil that I left in my car, my joints were all burning like 3 days into daily consumption

 

[SOMO]

That sounds ducked @SOMO somebody should really get them to stop selling this!
I remember taking fish oil that I left in my car, my joints were all burning like 3 days into daily consumption

Your joint pain is disconcerting considering many view Fish Oil as this super powerful anti-inflammatory that literally STOPS Omega-6 inflammation in its track. Besides heart health, the main reasons people take fish oil are for joint issues or skin issues I think. Both of these health issues may be exacerbated by PUFA.

I was a chronic fish-oil taker for several years.
And I would consume seafood daily or every few days on top of that.
I believed it would BLOCK ALL OMEGA-6s from my diet lol. Many take the Omega-3s to "balance" their O3:O6 ratio, but it's any extra PUFA is likely creating dis-balance.

I always stored my fish oil in the freezer until it solidified, because even when I thought supplementing with O3 was good, I still knew how easily fish oil spoils.
The only reason some people who take fish oil regularly may not be getting negative effects from fish oil is because of how they store it, but eventually damage will accumulate (like it did with me).

 

[SOMO]

Some years ago, maybe 6 yrs ago, I was getting sick and staying low-grade sick for long time frame. This was before my Peating and also before my Jaminet Perfect Health Diet. I was still eating gluten, etc. I ended up on Dr. Ron's website and asked some lame question. The next day, my landline phone rang and it was Dr. Ron. He was so sweet. He just talked to me and had a hand-wringing sound to his voice. He wasn't trying to sell me anything. I asked him if he thought I should take thymus. He said, "Oh, I don't know." I mean, he really sounded worried. I ended up telling him I was feeling better just so he would feel better.
My two cents. He's a sweet person.

He does seem genuine and like he'd actually take your health concerns seriously. Hopefully the issue you called him for has improved. :)

 

[johnwester130]

from my understanding , the cod liver oil was actually canola oil.

both are bad anyway

 

[SOMO]

from my understanding , the cod liver oil was actually canola oil.

both are bad anyway

I believe the reason "dilution" with Canola or Soybean was suspected was because trans fats were found in the final product. I don't know if you read Dr. Kaayla Daniel's PDF about the testing of the FCLO, but I think she found trans fats in the product. So either the product is diluted or highly oxidized and the manufacturers possibly created a franken-lipid.

However, it's very possible that the process of months-long fermentation + heat + sunlight + bacteria would create a NEW type of Omega-3 based trans fat. Or the test for trans-fats is picking up some other lipid peroxide product.

As far as I know, the seed oil industry has never tried to hydrogenate Omega-3s fish oils into margarine and sell it as "heart-healthy Omega-3 margarine." So it might not be possible to make trans fats out of Omega-3s and if that's the case, it points to dilution with margarine.

 

[Sobieski]

I used to eat oily fish and take Cod liver oil everyday. I also took flax seed oil. I can personally vouch for the havoc it wrecked on my joints. I remember looking forward to a holiday break in a Nordic country; it would be plenty of rest and I'd get to eat lots of 'Fresh' Omega 3's from the local produce. By the end of the holiday and after loads of extra pufas from the fish the aches and pains that I'd been experiencing got worse and spread to other joints. I couldn't understand why as EVERY single piece of literature on nutrition I'd ever read, no matter the bias or perspective, were in universal agreement as to the necessity and benefit of high o-3 intake. If I hadn't have found Peat and this forum I'd probably be a cripple by now.

 

[brainfog]

Hes dead now. So is Ramiel Nagel - he also recommended this.

He says somewhere in the video that he has taking cod liver oil (not ferment) for 20-25 years. And on top of that having fermeted cod liver oil. Thats alot of unassary stress. He looks pretty healthy.

 

[SOMO]

Hes dead now. So is Ramiel Nagel - he also recommended this.

He says somewhere in the video that he has taking cod liver oil (not ferment) for 20-25 years. And on top of that having fermeted cod liver oil. Thats alot of unassary stress. He looks pretty healthy.

CLO is a better choice than fish oil because even though it's PUFA, it has natural Vit A, D and E to protect it slightly. And many of these companies in Norway process the fresh cod on-site and bottle it immediately because the manufacturers of CLO are aware of how toxic their oil can become once it oxidizes.

 

[InChristAlone]

I was big on WAPF before coming to Peat. I took 2-3 bottles of that crap over the course of a couple yrs. I even tried forcing it on my toddler, I feel like a horrible Mommy looking back on that. It tastes like poison. Thankfully I was also taking the butter oil which probably helped protect against the rancid oil.

My Mom remembers when anyone in her family as children were coming down with illness they would get cod liver oil and they were all pretty healthy. So maybe the vitamin A and D was helpful to ward off acute infection. But now we know better. You can just eat fresh liver and take D3 if low.

 

[Arrade]

I'm taking a pretty cheap Vitamin A supplement from Cod liver. Hopefully that's not an issue

 

[SOMO]

I was big on WAPF before coming to Peat. I took 2-3 bottles of that crap over the course of a couple yrs. I even tried forcing it on my toddler, I feel like a horrible Mommy looking back on that. It tastes like poison. Thankfully I was also taking the butter oil which probably helped protect against the rancid oil.

My Mom remembers when anyone in her family as children were coming down with illness they would get cod liver oil and they were all pretty healthy. So maybe the vitamin A and D was helpful to ward off acute infection. But now we know better. You can just eat fresh liver and take D3 if low.

Yes, I think it's really likely that the benefits attributed to CLO are likely due to the Vit A/D/E/K.

 

[x-ray peat]

but its recommended by Dave Asprey /s

 

[healthiswellth]

Hi, I’m late to this thread but I would just like to add my experience-
I had dental problems from a standard “healthy” diet (whole grain, pufa, low sat fat, lots of green veggies (cooked/ raw). When my bed and dental problems began I learned about Weston price/paleo/primal, fermented cod liver oil, benefit of saturated fats, raw milk) —This type of diet , along with switching from Fluoride toothpaste to hydroxyapatite , improve my dental problems, cleared most acne, better weight distribution)... but it didn’t heal my hormonal problems, which is how I came to Peat.

I took fermented CLO always with the Butter oil (non-flavored) — This was before the Rosita extra-virgin brand was ever made— When Rosita was introduced I switched over to that plus Emu oil. Now we don’t take any CLO — my nephew was 1.5yrs and he took green pastures FCLO/Butter oil voluntarily and LOVED the taste.....maybe it was the butter oil part? I was wondering if you guys had any ideas on why that might be? (He also ate plain kerrygold butter off spoon, and seaweed snacks....unprocessed foods.)He’s thankfully a healthy kid...but do you think there could be some damage from the FCLO?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hes dead now. So is Ramiel Nagel - he also recommended this.

He says somewhere in the video that he has taking cod liver oil (not ferment) for 20-25 years. And on top of that having fermeted cod liver oil. Thats alot of unassary stress. He looks pretty healthy.

"And now the concern has spread beyond the Schmid circle based on news that the dental expert, Rami Nagel, died of cancer July 28. Nagel was a huge proponent of FCLO in two of his books. His well known book, Cure Tooth Decay, recommended as part of a program to fight tooth decay varying dosages of the Green Pasture product. Another book, Healing Our Children, recommended that pregnant women take the product for vitamins A and D. In an online promotion for the book, he stated: “The best way to have cod liver oil is to mix it with a high quality butter oil, such as the one recommended in Healing Our Children from the company Green Pasture. Taken together, these two oils have a synergistic effect, with each one making the other even more effective.”

I need to point out that there is no immediate evidence that Nagel’s cancer was directly caused by fermented cod liver oil. Yet recriminations have begun following on the Schmid and Nagel deaths. One individual on Facebook several times questioned a popular foodie blogger about why she didn’t make more of the Schmid death: “Why don’t you share with your audience how Ron Schmid says the FCLO damaged his heart?”

Former FCLO Users Worry About Possible Long-term Problems

At a memorial gathering in Connecticut for Ron Schmid last week at his farm home in Watertown, there were lots of fond remembrances by his friends, relatives, and former patients. But there was also lots of anger about the Green Pasture fermented cod liver oil that was so much a part of his...

www.davidgumpert.com

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

"Ramiel Nagel died from cancer on July 28, 2017.

"They died almost within a week of each other. Dr. Ron Schmid, naturopath and author, aged 71, died of heart failure on July 20th. Rami Nagel, author, aged 38, died of cancer just over a week later on July 28th. Both had one thing in common: they were taking a supplement called FCLO (fermented cod liver oil)."

"Between the first and second world wars, cod liver oil was recommended as a vitamin supplement, at first as a source of vitamin A, and later as a source of vitamins A and D. But in the late 1940s, experimenters used it as the main fat in dogs' diet, and found that they all died from cancer, while the dogs on a standard diet had only a 5% cancer mortality. That sort of information, and the availability of synthetic vitamins, led to the decreased use of cod liver oil" -Ray Peat

 

[bornamachine]

"Ramiel Nagel died from cancer on July 28, 2017.

"They died almost within a week of each other. Dr. Ron Schmid, naturopath and author, aged 71, died of heart failure on July 20th. Rami Nagel, author, aged 38, died of cancer just over a week later on July 28th. Both had one thing in common: they were taking a supplement called FCLO (fermented cod liver oil)."

"Between the first and second world wars, cod liver oil was recommended as a vitamin supplement, at first as a source of vitamin A, and later as a source of vitamins A and D. But in the late 1940s, experimenters used it as the main fat in dogs' diet, and found that they all died from cancer, while the dogs on a standard diet had only a 5% cancer mortality. That sort of information, and the availability of synthetic vitamins, led to the decreased use of cod liver oil" -Ray Peat

That's crazy, I remember that book and watching that guy on YouTube how he healed his children's teeth.

All I can say now is maybe my inattentiveness is not such a bad thing after all, I remember buying that FCLO and pretty much tossing out the whole can, buying fresh CLO and pretty much tossing the whole can, and this applys to all the supplements I've tried over the years ?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

That's crazy, I remember that book and watching that guy on YouTube how he healed his children's teeth.

All I can say now is maybe my inattentiveness is not such a bad thing after all, I remember buying that FCLO and pretty much tossing out the whole can, buying fresh CLO and pretty much tossing the whole can, and this applys to all the supplements I've tried over the years ?

Good for you! I just did that recently buying resvetrol. I posted that I had just bought some for my husband's cancer and a member "enlightened me" on my nativity in falling for the snake oil, so I threw it out too. Yeah looking up this Rami guy up today I was shocked he died so young of cancer, touting toxic fish oil.