DHT Causes Hair Loss, You Sure About That?

Discussion in 'Hair & Nails' started by jonnytrigger, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    In the past I've heard georgi say dht actually grows hair and its high in hair loss sufferers because oestrogen is too high. He also says taurine grows hair better than finastride, note this study was in an insect less than the size of an ant. I have never seen any case report with proof than any of his supplements working as well as finastride, minoxidil and dht blockers whilst on the contrary there is plenty of amazing results with the dht theory.


    Here is one this guy literally regrew his whole head of hair.
     
  2. Sygnal

    Sygnal Member

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    Probably has a numb **** and zero sex drive along with it. What's the point?
     
  3. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    So what? Nothing you offered proves that DHT causes hair loss. The fact that some 5 alpha reductase inhibitors can regrow hair in some men is irrelevant. All drugs have multiple functions, and it might not be the function you think that causes the "benefit." As an example, some of the SSRI drugs actually act as an antagonist on certain serotonin "receptors," meaning that they can both increase serotonin levels, and block some of it's effects.

    Likewise, whether Taurine regrows hair or not is irrelevant.

    The video itself is pretty biased. You can easily see that the creator gets a kickback from Minoxidil via the discount code in the first comment, and I wouldn't doubt also get's paid in some way from pharmaceutical companies for recommending finasteride. That should make you a bit wary of his content, at least. When you throw in the fact he uses "Bro" twice in the first minute....... well, I think we have another video coming in from the Hallowed Halls of Broscience.

    If you want to show that DHT does indeed cause baldness, go scour Pubmed and see if you can find a couple observational studies showing a correlation between men with a higher DHT level, and hairloss. Then, once you have established the correlation, go find some studies that follow men taking supplemental DHT (which was sold in Europe for quite a while under the name "Andractim"), and see how many had increased balding (if any) while on it.
     
  4. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

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    DHT is used for prostate cancer in France

    I will try and find all the articles about it
     
  5. Sygnal

    Sygnal Member

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    In his defense, I don't think Derek is a shill for Finasteride. He has made a few videos discussing PFS and recommends people get baseline bloodwork before using Fin, he also has said that inhibiting DHT is only good for hair loss prevention and nothing else. Kevin Mann on the other hand...
     
  6. OP
    jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    You probably didn't watch the video the guy added dutastrude on top of RU and finastride but dropped dutastrude cos of some sides but continues fin and RU which in it self is a very potent DHT inhibitor.
     
  7. Sygnal

    Sygnal Member

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    I watched the video.

    If you want to take what he takes, go for it, and let us know how it goes in the long run.
     
  8. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Oh, great! So instead of using two highly toxic drugs (in finasteride and dutasteride) that can cause long term side effects, including horrible mood and sexual dysfunction, he's only using ONE highly toxic drug that can cause long term side effects, including horrible mood and sexual dysfunction. That's like, way better.
     
  9. OP
    jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    Derek might look bro science but he's actually well educated on the topic. He himself doesn't use minox nor does he ask u to take it, there alot of evidence to suggest it does and it actually does believe it or not.

    What i don't get is why most on this forum do anything to not accept that dht does cause hairloss and dht blockers can halt it. If it was useless no one would spend millions on developing drugs such as finastride and the upcoming cb 3001. They very specifically target dht. But you're telling me it happens by chance or different pathway? Over 60% see very significant results not just statistically but in real life which i have never seen from anyone of danny or georgis clients unless they had thyroid issues.

    I included taurine because, georgi explicitly said its better than finastride yet iv seen nothing from taurine, progest e, niacin, MB, or the traditional ray peat diet. And no one on this forum has posted any pics to show results, all they say is you just have to believe it lol. Outside of this forum who would buy that.

    Plus there is plenty of data on dht and hair loss. All I'm saying is alot of people in this forum are so biased they can't see anything else. I got out in good time before wasting any more money or damaging health
     
  10. Sygnal

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    I believe androgens contribute to hair loss. At the same time, I do not believe DHT is useless. I learned how important DHT is from my own personal experience with Finasteride.

    On the topic of hair loss, I'm more interested in therapies that do not inhibit the very hormones that make you look, behave, and feel like a male.
     
  11. OP
    jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    It could cause those things but just like the studies show it's only a few percent, maybe that is under reported but it isn't more than 5%. And these are likely in those with already messed up hormones check the vid that guy made on this topic
     
  12. OP
    jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    Apparently the brezula AKA, CB3001 inhibits dht topically only and it should have come out by now it postponed because of covid. I've tried fin before didn't really see much although it reduced shedding and regrew belly's hairs but then again I was on .5 mg daily and have autoimmune disorder as well. So looking to try RU next maybe
     
  13. Sygnal

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    RU and Fin both caused sides for me. I've heard that people experience sides with CB the same as Fin/RU. I've been hearing more about Fluridil lately and how it shouldn't go systemic since it is hydrophobic, but I wouldn't count on it.

    I'm more interested to see what results people get out of stuff coming down the pipeline, Way-316606 and SM04554 in particular.
     
  14. OP
    jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    Wh

    What sides did you have,only thing I'm worried is an intense mental fog almost drunken feeling, I got this from alfaradiol, progest e, MB and even taurine. They make me really depressed and moody
     
  15. Sygnal

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    RU = Blunted mood, depressed, high cortisol, heart palpitations, panic attacks, weight gain as a result.
    Fin = Blunted mood/loss of emotions, depressed, anxious, anhedonia, loss of memory, numb ****, penile and testicular shrinkage, insomnia. I basically felt like my personality was deleted after taking Finasteride.

    Taurine doesn't make me depressed, just makes me too "carefree" in large doses.
     
  16. JDreamer

    JDreamer Member

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    Sweet ......

    A new thread with the same tired ol' dogma that'll go nowhere. Why do guys like this even come to this site? LOL
     
  17. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Again, as I stated in my comment, the fact that 5 alpha reductase inhibitors can halt or reverse hairloss in some men does NOT mean that DHT causes hairloss. For example, in addition to inhibiting DHT, both 5ar drugs mentioned lower the levels of allopregnanolone. Does that mean allopregnanolone causes hairloss? There are a number of other 5ar steroids as well, such as 5 Alpha Dihydroprogesterone. If they are blocking that enzyme, there's a whole host of steroids they are changing. Not to mention other effects that such drugs can be having on the organism.

    Also, if DHT reliably causes hairloss, why don't you post the types of studies I mentioned in my first comment? If you start to show some proof like I asked for, then I might be more inclined to believe the idea that DHT causes hairloss.

    I think the whole DHT=Hairloss is basically a myth, right up there with the idea that DHT causes prostate cancer and BPH. If that's the case, why weren't the highest number of cases of both of these seen traditionally in young men in their teens and 20s? These conditions tend to affect men as they get older, when both DHT and androgens in general are declining. Of course, androgens including DHT are much lower in males in their teens and 20s now than males of the same age group 40 years ago.

    There's also plenty of examples of hairloss that don't come from DHT. During starvation or malnourishment, people will often lose hair. Radiation and Chemotherapy will also make a person lose hair. It used to be practically common knowledge that stress caused gray hair and hair loss, people would joke about such things all the time. Do you ever look at someone undergoing cancer treatments and think "Wow, that person must have really high DHT levels?" Because I don't. I don't think anyone does.

    So I think the idea that DHT causes hairloss is silly, but useful to sell dubious and dangerous hair loss treatments. As for spending millions on useless drugs........ have you taken a look at the medical industry recently? The medical cartel just made six billion dollars on COVID 19 tests that they ADMIT can't really detect the COVID 19 virus (assuming such virus even exists in the first place). With profitable drugs like SSRIs and Statins, is very clear the the pharmaceutical industry can make billions of dollars off of drugs that are dangerous and ineffective for the conditions they supposedly treat.
     
  18. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Okay, you tried Finasteride. I assume that you did take a blood test for DHT beforehand, correct? And that the test came back in the high end of the range, or above it? Can you share what those results were?
     
  19. Mrscorpion360

    Mrscorpion360 Member

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    Honestly, whenever I see someone regrowing hair in an article I become interested in their story, but when finasteride and minoxidil are mentioned and they used it, without involving nutrition, lab test, temp and pulse etc. that’s where I lost interest and their journey is just practically useless and pointless at the same time and they just don’t help at all. I think it’s a time waster in general now that I think about it.
     
  20. OP
    jonnytrigger

    jonnytrigger Member

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    Sorry but you seem to be convinced medicine and pharma are all incorrect in line with georgis saying 99% of science is fake and doctors are useless and conspiracy theories are bound to them. So what happens next is people with zero knowledge of science and medicine learn a few jargons and implement radical changes that they have very little knowledge of which can be dangerous.

    The downstream effect of finastride on other hormones as you mentioned are what's causing the hair regrowth? if that were the case don't you think people would have figured that out as there are people alot smarter than you and I and ray peat, instead of selling dangerous drugs? Allopregnenolone regrows hair? Seriously. Even if that were the case by now everyone in this forum should have regrown pre puberty hairs by now, cos they've spent years on correcting their mitochondria and hormones unless everything needs to be down to a 0.01 range. I hoped the ray peat diet, supplements recommended by georgi would help but they only gave me personally silly side effects. Not saying my experience equals same for all. I'm just saying for a guy who looks fat and is nowood 7, to be making big claims to at least showcase it himself or on his clients yet he's obsessed with fancy theories that have not shown any real results so far. That is not how science works. Alot of people on here also tend to go search pudmed which isn't the most reliable place to begin with without understanding research methodology, they only learn things from ray peats quotes on random podcasts and then only find info that corroborates their own agenda even if it's a ***t quality paper. But a level 7 evidence is fake if it goes against anything ray peat has said.

    Youre trying to correlate cartel and and finastride. well we can't expect things to be free, look at georgi's supplements for example very high in price but hey they're.close to organic and ray peat likes them. Do you see the point.

    Ssri's are apparently bad but I haven't seen anyone in this forum fix their depression or anxiety with diet and lifestyle. I personally have seen great results with citalopram and I'm sure alot of people have as well but thinking rubbing progesterone and having a special diet to cure those issues is just silly because many people already have a decent diet. And those supplements aren't going to magically fix their issues neither does having lots of sugar.

    We could sit here and complain about these drugs but hey they give real world results and I would dought it if everyone left medicine and their doctors and could fix all their health issues simply by monitoring their pulse and body temperature and eating a almost liquid diet with lots of sugar and taking antibiotics with zero knowledge. Realistically how many people would benefit from ray peat diet?
     
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