tankasnowgod
Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 8,131
Don’t ever block natural estradiol from doing what it does...
Like making you gain fat, get depressed, have terrible skin, and develop cancer?
Clomid is estrogenic, by the way.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
Don’t ever block natural estradiol from doing what it does...
Examastane doesn’t agonize Estrogen anywhere is a completely different drug, it doesn’t even work on the receptorI experimented with Clomid a few years ago, it made me really sad over just the course of a couple days. A noticeable change in mood. I stopped after a few days, symptoms went away quickly.
Tried it again, since I still had lots, same thing, stopped in a couple days. I don't think it's very good in general.
Didn't get the same effects at all from Exemestane. It's far better, IMO. I did get some noticeable worsening of mood after taking 6.25mg every day for two months. That went away after stopping for two days.
Cycling it for PFS purposes is a good tactic. Some recovered with these SERMS for PFS.Well, not permanently, for certain. In a 2-4 week course to stimulate your HPTA axis into producing testosterone again, why not? Steroid users swear by it.
Let me be clear - I don't enjoy Nolva. I wrote above I feel messed on it. But I am using it as part of my experimental treatments against PFS, and I don't know of any other drug that can combat purposefully induced suppression from steroids this quickly. Do you?
Estradiol does the opposite of this. Literally the exact opposite.Like making you gain fat, get depressed, have terrible skin, and develop cancer?
Clomid is estrogenic, by the way.
I experimented with Clomid a few years ago, it made me really sad over just the course of a couple days. A noticeable change in mood. I stopped after a few days, symptoms went away quickly.
Tried it again, since I still had lots, same thing, stopped in a couple days. I don't think it's very good in general.
Didn't get the same effects at all from Exemestane. It's far better, IMO. I did get some noticeable worsening of mood after taking 6.25mg every day for two months. That went away after stopping for two days.
Well, not permanently, for certain. In a 2-4 week course to stimulate your HPTA axis into producing testosterone again, why not? Steroid users swear by it.
Let me be clear - I don't enjoy Nolva. I wrote above I feel messed on it. But I am using it as part of my experimental treatments against PFS, and I don't know of any other drug that can combat purposefully induced suppression from steroids this quickly. Do you?
So you are saying estradiol makes you lean, happy, have great skin, and be cancer free?Estradiol does the opposite of this. Literally the exact opposite.
This talk is insanely dubious. Here is the full text of one of the studies they talked about when they claim that inhibiting aromatase increases body fat in men-
Aromatase Inhibition Reduces Insulin Sensitivity in Healthy Men
What's the actual result from the study in regards to bodyfat?
"No significant differences in weight (82.2 ± 3.4 vs 81.8 ± 3.4 kg, P = .404), body mass index (25.9 ± 1.1 vs 25.7 ± 1.1 kg/m2, P = .445), or percentage body fat (16.4% ± 1.9% vs 16.4% ± 1.9%, P = .957) were observed between anastrozole and placebo treatment. "
They then DO take a quote from the study to make their claim-
"Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis"
But....... this was only a six week study. They conveniently left out the first part of the quote, which was talking about the actual results-
"No differences were observed in body composition as determined by body mass index, weight, or body fat percentage between placebo and anastrozole phases. This is not unexpected after only 6 weeks of therapy. Sixteen weeks of aromatase inhibition therapy in men has been shown to increase body fat, particularly in the intraabdominal compartment, as assessed by sensitive computed tomography and dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry analysis."
Freaking slimy, huh? THIS is the study the authors were referring to in reference to the "16 weeks" quote.
Gonadal steroids and body composition, strength, and sexual function in men. - PubMed - NCBI
Check out this out from the abstract-
"METHODS:
We provided 198 healthy men 20 to 50 years of age with goserelin acetate (to suppress endogenous testosterone and estradiol) and randomly assigned them to receive a placebo gel or 1.25 g, 2.5 g, 5 g, or 10 g of testosterone gel daily for 16 weeks. Another 202 healthy men received goserelin acetate, placebo gel or testosterone gel, and anastrozole (to suppress the conversion of testosterone to estradiol). Changes in the percentage of body fat and in lean mass were the primary outcomes. Subcutaneous- and intraabdominal-fat areas, thigh-muscle area and strength, and sexual function were also assessed."
Okay, so the source of their "claim" that inhibiting estrogen leads to bodyfat gain is a study where both Testosterone and Estradiol were suppressed, and then test replaced and some got AIs and some didn't. Far cry from even saying that a pharmaceutical AI, let alone inhibiting or reducing estrogen, somehow causes fat gain.
yeah, this is what happens when you prevent estradiol from binding to its receptor one way or another. You’ll get sad, have terrible skin, hair loss, trashed lipids, increase your CVD risk, cancer, visceral fat. All from low estradiol.
I have met and spoken with dr shippen several times. I was one of the rare ones that did quite well on low dose clomid. Shippen had most of his patients on compounded testosterone cream applied to the scrotum usually used long side of hcgestrogens that aren’t bioidentical (anything but estradiol basically, estrone and estriol being too weak comparatively) are awful and should be avoided
estradiol is great and shouldn’t be blocked. Don’t ever touch serms.
@Cooper if test/cortisol ratios are balanced google Dr Shippen’s HCG protocol and stick to it.
What dosage of tamoxifen are you using whats your T levels on itI want to smash my head into a wall when i read males using Clomid. Seriously why doctors prescribe this? At least we suppose to have take Tamoxifen from what i have seen and researched, not Clomid. Don't listen to your doctors advice right of the bat. They are unawere of the recent studies and operate on old knowledge. Clomid decreases LH's response to GnRH and it is a more Estrogen agonistic drug. We want antagonistic effects. The second isomer inside the Clomid, which is Zuclomiphene is a highly Estrogen Agonistic compound. And it has a longer half life than Enclomiphene (the first antagonistic isomer that we need) so it accumulates in the body and causes Estrogenic side effects.
Tamoxifen is a more Estrogen Antagonistic agent on tissues with less side effects. And it actually increases LH's response to GnRH. And is powerful than Clomid. It does the same job of 150mg Clomid with only 20mg's. There are couple studies on this, just search it. Here is one. I hope this helps :)
PS: I am using Tamoxifen with zero side effects right now and i just gave bloods. I will post them when the results come and we can see pre- and post results.
Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro - PubMed
The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells obtained from adult ovariectomized...pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Tamox didn't work. My TT increased to 638 but Free T stayed same at 20. Due to shbg increase or smth. Strangely, my LH and FSH didn't change too!! I took tamox first 10 mg eod and then 20mg eod i think for 8 weeks. Now im on HGH and HCG.What dosage of tamoxifen are you using whats your T levels on it