Calcium-Magnesium Ratio

[BigChad]

Too much calcium opposes thyroid function IIRC. Iodine protocol documents state more than 2 grams lessens effectiveness (/absorption/uptake?) of iodine.

Too much vitamin D can oppose thyroid too then?
Btw phosphate can also help clear excess calcium?

 

[BigChad]

Well, personally for what it is worth I find too much calcium is overkill. I find my peak benefits at 1-1.5 gram calcium. In fact, from my personal database, I find any more than 2 gram of calcium actually starts to damage my metabolism. 3 gram is starting to push it. So I have to agree with Frank that one should be cautious about that much. I've also conclusively found out that too much phosphorus is also bad of course. Moderation of both is key.

Maple syrup is a nice "hack" because it is pretty much the only food that is basically a Ca:P ratio of infinity. Milk actually adds a rather large amount of phosphorus to the diet so with the 3 gram of calcium you're also getting well over 2 grams of phosphorus which is bad. From my data, I find more than 1 gram of phosphorus starts to have negative metabolic effects.

Youd need tons of syrup to get calcium though? Isn't orange juice better, also has calcium and no phosphorus

 

[baccheion]

Too much vitamin D can oppose thyroid too then?
Btw phosphate can also help clear excess calcium?

Unsure. Some experience symptoms of slower thyroid, but they're said to be eliminated with more magnesium and/or vitamin A. One study showed D3 increased free T3 without affecting TSH or free T4.

 

[somuch4food]

Thanks for your input; very much appreciated.
I don`t know if I have issues handling calcium but I would like to know before my arteries are calcified....
I track my diet via cronometer.com; I always eat more calcium than phosphor.
I am peating for aroung 2 years now, feeling good, blood sugar, blood pressure, energy level, pulse rate, body temperature are quite fine.
My point is, that problems often accumulate silently in the background until they show up massively;
so prevention is key. I am just not sure how to think about all that seemingly credible researchers that say that a 1:1 ration of calcium to magnesium is needed to prevent calcification of soft tissue and cardio-vascular problems.
Are they all so wrong, missinformed, manipulated? Often they are, but dismissing their research from the beginning would imo be the wrong way. Beeing dogmatic about ones point of view doen`t help at all, quite the opposite.

You sound quite orthorexic. The stress you create on yourself worrying about minute details like mineral ratios is probably worse than the additional calcium. With a low PUFA intake, I think you will have higher tolerance to excesses than most people that are used in research. Make sure to have a good source of magnesium from either a supplement or foods and go on with your life.

I also don't think issues slowly accumulate. There are early signs, but most people would attribute those to aging. Listen to your body if you start feeling something is amiss look for a cause, but don't try to prevent everything, it's not possible anyway.

Edit: also, how old are you? Calcium is more of an issue when hormones are out of whack as you get older.

You were also noting that there is too much iron in meat. Be careful with that one. Iron is vital. Getting too much is damaging as is getting too little. Fortified iron products are what you need to be wary of. You would need a whole lot of meat to get too much iron especially with high dairy consumption.

 

[BigChad]

If your thyroid is good, then issues with handling calcium might mean your phosphate is too high. Calcium lowers PTH, but PTH lowers phosphate, so too much calcium might magnify any problems relating to excess phosphate. Thyroid and phosphate usually go hand in hand but I guess if you're coming from a background of eating lots of grains, meats, beans, then you might have excess phosphate even with good thyroid/CO2.

Do you take Vitamin K? That both lowers phosphate and helps to prevent calcification.

I think just going by symptoms, such as blood pressure, muscle stiffness, ringing in ears, etc. would work for knowing whether your calcium is going into bone or soft tissues. Calcium should lower blood pressure if it's being well absorbed but will raise BP by causing calcification if it's not. I used to feel pretty bad when I took calcium/vitamin D when I had worse thyroid/excess phosphate/excess prolactin with ear ringing, mild hair fall, and anxiety, but now calcium makes me feel calm and relaxed.

Doesnt vitamin k lower calcium? Does it lower calcium and phosphate similarly?

 

[BigChad]

Unsure. Some experience symptoms of slower thyroid, but they're said to be eliminated with more magnesium and/or vitamin A. One study showed D3 increased free T3 without affecting TSH or free T4.

Seems like too much D3 without A could lead to hypothyroid effects then? A without D also seems to do the same. Not sure what K2 would do.
btw have you heard of K2 lowering phosphate? I thought it lowered calcium, does it lower calcium and phosphate the same way or one more than the other. it seems important to know in order to properly manage the Ca : P ratio.

Too much D3 would give hypercalcemia symptoms which are similar to hypothyroid symptoms?

 

[baccheion]

Seems like too much D3 without A could lead to hypothyroid effects then? A without D also seems to do the same. Not sure what K2 would do.
btw have you heard of K2 lowering phosphate? I thought it lowered calcium, does it lower calcium and phosphate the same way or one more than the other. it seems important to know in order to properly manage the Ca : P ratio.

Too much D3 would give hypercalcemia symptoms which are similar to hypothyroid symptoms?

???

 

[BigChad]

???

Someone mentioned vitamin K lowering phosphate, this is the first I heard of that. I had heard of it lowering calcium before. If it lowers calcium it would be another factor to manage in Ca:P and Ca:Mg ratios.

Boron I believe also promotes D3 and magnesium retention. B6 promotes magnesium and zinc retention. So there's several factors involved in Ca:Mg ratio besides the sole intake of Ca and Mg.

And some of the symptoms of hypercalcemia match hypothyroid ones. Someone in another thread was mentioning that D3 can lower dhea and progesterone.

 

[AJA]

I have been feeling great with a closer to 1:1 ratio. I used to take a cal/mag supplement at night, however, always had concerns that both were being absorbed well together. Now I take magnesium and taurine at bedtime. 400mg magnesium citrate and 3 grams taurine at bedtime and another 200mg magnesium when waking in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. I do not drink coffee or milk. Eat well aside from that, however, not getting enough magnesium. For calcium, I supplement calcium citrate 200 mg at each meal. Magnesium MAY be one of the most underrated supplements, especially for those inclined to have insulin resistance.
Magnesium and type 2 diabetes

Magnesium metabolism in type 2 diabetes mellitus, metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Kingpinguin]

Hey,

since I have around 3g of dietary calcium daily through low fat milk and oranges
I was thinking about the ration of calcium to magnesium for quite some time.

I have even emailed Dr. Peat and received a reply, though a kind of cryptical one which I can`t make sense of.
So I have searched the internet and found some articles which proposed to have a 1:1 ratio of calcium to magnesium.
So that is is very the issues begin:
- I can`t have 3g of magnesium in my diet; in my opinion is ist plain dangerougs to supplement that much
magnesium for different reasons; dietary magnesium in a Peat inspired nutrition is nearly solely based on
coffee ( green leaf broth is an option but not very applicable on a daily basis )
- If I lower dietary calcium by reducing milk I don`t have enough protein
or
I ramp up on shellfish which leads to an overload on zinc and a unfavorable ratio of calcium to phosphor
- If I reduce dietery calcium by reducing milk consumption but have cottage cheese which is low calcium
but high protein I still have more phosphor than calcium in my diet and too much lactic acid since
these days cottage cheese is produced via lactiv acid bacteia ( rinsing the cottage cheese to wash off lactic acid would be an option but still it would lead to too much phosphor in comparison to calcium )
- I I were to replace milk with beef for protein I would ramp up fat intake which may lead to a to high fat intake
( lean beef is not recommended by Peat ) which impairs optimal glucose metabolism ( Randal effect )

So more and more it seems to me that the whole Peat inspired nutrition idea is in many aspects very sound but
the problem seems to be the ration of calcium to magnesium.
Dr. Peat argues that high calcium intake is protective and so on but never ever answers the question of how to balance high calcium intake properly. To me it seems that he is just ignoring that very important aspect since otherwise his dietary construct would fall apart.
Sure I could ignore all that information about having an 1:1 calcium to magnesium intake or at least a 2:1 ratio by arguing that is just mainstream manipulated blablab but wouldn`t that be to dogmatic in order to justify a Peat inspired diet?

Frank

think you answered your own qestion 3 grams is hard naturally. So is it natural then? No its not. I think if you can get 300-400mg from diet per day which even that can be tricky. Then it should be enough.