Being Forced To Wear Masks. Yes No Maybe So

[Inaut]

So if you say you have respiratory issues, how can they force you to disclose medical records or fine you for not wearing a mask? What about being claustrophobic? No medical diagnosis but isn’t that a fair excuse?

 

[Lollipop2]

Justin Hart shared a photo of his homemade masks on twitter. They look good!

View attachment 18466

LoL...awesomeness!

 

[LucyL]

It says "This is a stupid, useless, harmful violation of my health, person and freedom". I understand he made in on Zazzle.

 

[TomS]

This is my facemask.
I cut a sock and wear without any fear.

 

[Blossom]

So if you say you have respiratory issues, how can they force you to disclose medical records or fine you for not wearing a mask? What about being claustrophobic? No medical diagnosis but isn’t that a fair excuse?

I’m pretty sure you can get a medical exemption.

 

[tankasnowgod]

So if you say you have respiratory issues, how can they force you to disclose medical records or fine you for not wearing a mask? What about being claustrophobic? No medical diagnosis but isn’t that a fair excuse?

It's going to make a difference whether you are talking about government employees, private business owners/employees, or law enforcement.

As of yet, I still haven't heard of a single person getting fined for not wearing a mask in public, regardless of laws/mandates/codes/what have you. Not a twitter post, not a news story, not an alterna media feature, nothing. Lots of fear that you might, and lots of threats of such..... but no actual cases, no video of it happening, no copies of the citation.

 

[Lejeboca]

Mask wearing is so they can continue to sow doubt amongst the populace, power of suggestion, mask = Coronavirus still amongst us, must still be a thing!

It's also a SJW status symbol, looks like. Was out and about yesterday: In a convenience store only 3-4 visibly non PC-Progs were not in the maskarade attire. But at least the rest didn't stay 10 feet way (yet?), maybe they would if they could?

I must admit getting out "in public" is stressful for me now. When without a mask is like asking for pat-down from the groping agency (TSA).
Maybe I should think that this is for the greater good, a form of resistance and a contribution to the fixing this craziness?
I guess, if everyone were "resisted" wearing masks, at least when being consumers, we wouldn't have this domination in the first place.

 

[managing]

So, do any of you think Covid19 is real?

If you think its real, do you have your losartan and cinanserin lined up and ready to go if you get infected?

If you think its real, do you worry about, as somebody said on page 1, being a disease vector and infecting others?

If you think its real, and you know how to take care of yourself and your loved ones, does the fate of others not so enlightened matter?

If you don't want to wear a mask, does your reason really boil down to "because nobody can make me"?

 

[boris]

If you don't want to wear a mask, does your reason really boil down to "because nobody can make me"?

Masks are a great way to get sick.


World doctor president criticizes mask requirement
"World Medical President Frank Ulrich Montgomery has sharply criticized the mask requirement that will apply throughout Germany in the fight against the corona virus from next week. Although he wears a mask “out of courtesy and solidarity”, he thinks a legal obligation is “wrong”, Montgomery told the Düsseldorf “Rheinische Post” (Thursday edition). Whoever wears a mask is led by a deceptive feeling of security to forget the “only decisive minimum distance”.

The masks could also be dangerous if used improperly, warned the Chairman of the World Medical Association. The virus is concentrated in the fabric, the facial skin is touched when it is removed, and infection is hardly possible faster."


Peat on wearing masks for prolounged periods of time:
"The effort of breathing increases lung stress—stretch and compression—increasing nitric oxide and other inflammation signals, similar to the effects of the virus."

 

[Mellow]

This thread is timely...masks will be madatory in all shops in Scotland from Friday of this week. Never mind the fact that we've all been walking around the supermarkets for the last 3 months without them!

I'm conflicted. I dont want to wear one but will probably be refused access to any supermarket if I refuse to. I'm planning to wear a snood round my neck and only pull it over my mouth if the shop security pull me up for not having a face covering.

I have also purchased a Guy Fawkes mask but I'm not sure I'll have the bottle to wear it and go shopping...

I’m also in Scotland - really sad all the mask wearing, you can’t easily smile at people or signal how mad this is.

I bought a “V Vendetta” mask, and I wear that if I’m forced. At the very least it gets a laugh, and sends at least some message that this is over-reaction bollocks

 

[managing]

Masks are a great way to get sick.


World doctor president criticizes mask requirement
"World Medical President Frank Ulrich Montgomery has sharply criticized the mask requirement that will apply throughout Germany in the fight against the corona virus from next week. Although he wears a mask “out of courtesy and solidarity”, he thinks a legal obligation is “wrong”, Montgomery told the Düsseldorf “Rheinische Post” (Thursday edition). Whoever wears a mask is led by a deceptive feeling of security to forget the “only decisive minimum distance”.

The masks could also be dangerous if used improperly, warned the Chairman of the World Medical Association. The virus is concentrated in the fabric, the facial skin is touched when it is removed, and infection is hardly possible faster."


Peat on wearing masks for prolounged periods of time:
"The effort of breathing increases lung stress—stretch and compression—increasing nitric oxide and other inflammation signals, similar to the effects of the virus."

It seems that you made a decision and then went looking for a reason. Its like the "I don't wear a seatbelt because I don't want to get trapped in my car if it goes in the water or catches fire" argument.

You've twisted and misunderstood Dr. Montgomery. The takeaway isn't "don't wear a mask". Its "wear a mask AND stay away from people". Same with WMA. The takeaway isn't "don't wear a mask" its "wear a mask and wash your hands and don't take off your mask before you do". Both of these people are advising a GREATER level of caution, not a lesser.

As for Dr. Peat's remarks, they apply only to N95 masks. N95 are mini-respirators, with an aperture and .5 micron carbon filter. Carbon clogs up and begins to impede breathing fairly quickly. This is one big reason that experts advise the general public not to use them. Because they don't change them out regularly.

I am surprised at the number of non-Americans expressing this sentiment. Usually Americans are unique in believing we have a right to jeopardize the health and well-being of others in the name of "freedom".

 

[tankasnowgod]

So, do any of you think Covid19 is real?

If you think its real, do you have your losartan and cinanserin lined up and ready to go if you get infected?

If you think its real, do you worry about, as somebody said on page 1, being a disease vector and infecting others?

If you think its real, and you know how to take care of yourself and your loved ones, does the fate of others not so enlightened matter?

If you don't want to wear a mask, does your reason really boil down to "because nobody can make me"?

I'll answer your top and bottom questions.

I don't think anyone has satisfied Koch's postulates when it comes to COVID-19. So, it may or may not exist. If some scientists did discover it...... so what? That's no proof that it's new. There are always hundreds of thousands of viruses around, and potentially millions that have existed for centuries or longer. When you realize that it's never been properly isolated and purified, the whole scam falls apart. People are getting sick and dying at a very close rate to what they always do. Real or not, it was never the threat they prophesied it would be. And make no mistake, calling it a "Pandemic" was a prophecy, not any sort of good science.

As for the mask, I don't wear one because the rules they made, they never safety tested. There's several studies questioning their effectiveness in various situations. Authorities never proved their mandates were "safe" or "effective," and many admitted that most masks are ineffective, making the mandates useless in terms of a health measure. So yeah, not interested in participating in their dehumanization experiment. That in addition to basically being unenforceable.

This guy really sums up what's really going on in five minutes. And he makes a great point..... if you didn't wear a mask during the Tuberculous Pandemic of 2019 that killed 1.5 Million people........ did you not care about the health of others back then?


His point about homeless populations not being wiped out really drives the point home.

 

[boris]

It seems that you made a decision and then went looking for a reason. Its like the "I don't wear a seatbelt because I don't want to get trapped in my car if it goes in the water or catches fire" argument.

You've twisted and misunderstood Dr. Montgomery. The takeaway isn't "don't wear a mask". Its "wear a mask AND stay away from people". Same with WMA. The takeaway isn't "don't wear a mask" its "wear a mask and wash your hands and don't take off your mask before you do". Both of these people are advising a GREATER level of caution, not a lesser.

You couldn't be more wrong. I was one the first in my surroundings to alarm about the dangerous virus and wanted to wear a mask even though no one around me even thought of it. I didn't decide and looked for approval, I decided, got educated and changed my decision.

I didn't twist any of Montgomery's words. You are the one twisting my and HIS words. He clearly implied that he would advise NOT to wear a mask if it were up to him. I could quote the passages again, but they are there for you to read again in my post above. It seems like you are here to start a fight. Go about your merry way wearing your mask I couldn't care less.

 

[Minimal]

You people crack me up. Your whole life you kowtow to the system, you let the government take third of every dollar you make, you let them destroy your body and soul in various inhumane jobs, you wait like a sheep till the light turns green, you obey, you submit. But not wearing a mask, as sensible as wearing it probably is, makes you feel like a little revolutionary, a little rebel. Yeah, that’ll show ‘em!

 

[tankasnowgod]

But not wearing a mask, as sensible as wearing it probably is, makes you feel like a little revolutionary, a little rebel.

So I guess you've been wearing a mask for decades then, huh? Also, can you post the studies you based your opinion on?

 

[managing]

I'll answer your top and bottom questions.

I don't think anyone has satisfied Koch's postulates when it comes to COVID-19. So, it may or may not exist. If some scientists did discover it...... so what? That's no proof that it's new. There are always hundreds of thousands of viruses around, and potentially millions that have existed for centuries or longer. When you realize that it's never been properly isolated and purified, the whole scam falls apart. People are getting sick and dying at a very close rate to what they always do. Real or not, it was never the threat they prophesied it would be. And make no mistake, calling it a "Pandemic" was a prophecy, not any sort of good science.

As for the mask, I don't wear one because the rules they made, they never safety tested. There's several studies questioning their effectiveness in various situations. Authorities never proved their mandates were "safe" or "effective," and many admitted that most masks are ineffective, making the mandates useless in terms of a health measure. So yeah, not interested in participating in their dehumanization experiment. That in addition to basically being unenforceable.

This guy really sums up what's really going on in five minutes. And he makes a great point..... if you didn't wear a mask during the Tuberculous Pandemic of 2019 that killed 1.5 Million people........ did you not care about the health of others back then?


His point about homeless populations not being wiped out really drives the point home.

Your answers to first question are entirely reasonable. To be clear, I am not against asking critical questions, and you've asked some good ones (aside: I do wonder what your criteria for "isolated and purified" would be though). I don't, however, draw the same conclusion. In the face of a not-yet-adequately-understood threat, I think basic simple caution is absolutely prudent.

Which brings me to the second. Who cares whether it is enforceable if it is reasonable? What is dehumanizing about it?

As for the possibility of a 2019 tuberculosis pandemic: Failing to acknowledge it or take proper precautions would be whataboutism at best. But even then, it might be an indictment of the various health authorities (for not raising alarm if that is real). But for us ordinary citizens it doesn't even rise to the level of whataboutism. If we know nothing of it (or were immunized for it) you couldn't even claim hypocrisy.

 

[managing]

You couldn't be more wrong. I was one the first in my surroundings to alarm about the dangerous virus and wanted to wear a mask even though no one around me even thought of it. I didn't decide and looked for approval, I decided, got educated and changed my decision.

I didn't twist any of Montgomery's words. You are the one twisting my and HIS words. He clearly implied that he would advise NOT to wear a mask if it were up to him. I could quote the passages again, but they are there for you to read again in my post above. It seems like you are here to start a fight. Go about your merry way wearing your mask I couldn't care less.

The problem is, if you don't wear a mask, and this thing is a threat to somebody, you are a disease vector. So your failure to care whether you harm others or not is a problem.

As for Montgomery, you have not supplied a sufficient content to support your conclusion. But it is possible that he comes to this conclusion in additional material you've read. But, assuming he isn't a raving idiot, his very best implication would be that he thinks people will stay away from others if nobody wears a mask and that they are too stupid to do so if everybody is wearing a mask. The latter is a valid point, but a foolish policy. Because vast amounts of people will fail to stay away from others even if nobody is wearing a mask. By his logic, condoms should be banned. That way people won't get STDs because they will be afraid to have sex.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Which brings me to the second. Who cares whether it is enforceable if it is reasonable? What is dehumanizing about it?

As for the possibility of a 2019 tuberculosis pandemic: Failing to acknowledge it or take proper precautions would be whataboutism at best. But even then, it might be an indictment of the various health authorities (for not raising alarm if that is real). But for us ordinary citizens it doesn't even rise to the level of whataboutism. If we know nothing of it (or were immunized for it) you couldn't even claim hypocrisy.

Forget about that part, that's my opinion. The FACT remains they didn't do any tests for safety and effectiveness. If you want to volunteer to do something, go right ahead. If you are arguing about MANDATING something, that requires proof- Proof that it's safe, and proof that it works. Prove that re-using masks isn't a health issue. Prove that wearing one for 8 hours straight isn't a problem, like food service and grocery store workers have been asked to do. Prove that doing this chronically for weeks or months on end doesn't cause problems. Prove it's not an issue when doing strenuous work, like construction and re-stocking grocery shelves. Prove that it's at all effective outside. Prove that it doesn't increase your risk of heat stroke in the summer.

Prove all that, and then maybe the mandates can start to be justified.

 

[managing]

Forget about that part, that's my opinion. The FACT remains they didn't do any tests for safety and effectiveness. If you want to volunteer to do something, go right ahead. If you are arguing about MANDATING something, that requires proof- Proof that it's safe, and proof that it works. Prove that re-using masks isn't a health issue. Prove that wearing one for 8 hours straight isn't a problem, like food service and grocery store workers have been asked to do. Prove that doing this chronically for weeks or months on end doesn't cause problems. Prove it's not an issue when doing strenuous work, like construction and re-stocking grocery shelves. Prove that it's at all effective outside. Prove that it doesn't increase your risk of heat stroke in the summer.

Prove all that, and then maybe the mandates can start to be justified.

For one, I never said anything about mandates. I think everybody should wear a (non-n95) mask because its the right thing to do. That said, my county does require it and does have fines for not complying. I don't have a problem with that given that I am wearing one anyway. Further, stores and other establishments are absolutely empowered to refuse service on any criteria at all, except for race, gender, sexual orientation, age . . . .

As for proving the things you say, studying these things in a controlled environment is not a bad idea. Expecting it to be done before anybody adopts what is otherwise a simple and easy and prima facie harmless. Surgical masks have been worn for centuries in various contexts without a hint of trouble. I generally respect the reason and support you bring to an argument, but this one really is a wild strawman. I mean, perhaps we should seek proof that baseball caps don't cause brain cancer before we consider wearing one?

EDIT: I should add that you raised a few marginal situations that are worth considering such as extreme heat situations. But outdoors is generally much lower risk, with caveats of course.

 

[boris]

The problem is, if you don't wear a mask, and this thing is a threat to somebody, you are a disease vector. So your failure to care whether you harm others or not is a problem.

"My failure to care wether I harm others"...... What a pathetic attempt at signalling a moral high ground.
I would wear a mask if I was sick caughing and sneezing, because I could actually protect someone from catching it from me.

If you think that asymptomatic people spread the virus, I'd like to see some proof for that. Oh wait there is none.....