Advantages Of Veganism

[Dolf]

In 2016, my father became a vegan after some cholesterol issues. Since then he has been a devoted follower of Dr. Michael Greger (who in my opinion doesn't look that healthy). I've seen the sicence and seen the studies and I've been trying to wrap my head around why is it that it is so popular and that it has many supposed health benefits and why it contradict's many of the things that have been said by Ray Peat. So far I've come to some conclusions of why veganism, although not better than a high metabolism diet, is better that the Standard American Diet.

So far I had though of some arguments:

-High calcium to phosphate ratio
-Low in inflammatory amino acids like tryprophan, methionine and cysteine
-High in carbs which are essential for good thyroid health

What I can't get is the PUFA. They advocate eating a lot of omega 3 fatty acids. How can they have low mortality rates when eating a high PUFA diet? My guess is something about anti-oxidants, but I'm not sure. Any guess? Thanks, I'm just trying to learn here.

 

[squanch]

What I can't get is the PUFA. They advocate eating a lot of omega 3 fatty acids. How can they have low mortality rates when eating a high PUFA diet? My guess is something about anti-oxidants, but I'm not sure. Any guess? Thanks, I'm just trying to learn here.

People who have successfully been vegan for several years pretty much always eat a low fat diet. Either high fruit or high starch. I don't really know of anyone advocating a high pufa diet.

So a diet based on fruits, root vegetables, leaf vegetables and coconut would:
-limit inflammatory amino acids
-limit PUFA
-provide a good calcium/phosphorus ratio
-provide a relatively nutrient dense diet

The downsides would be:
-low total protein
-lack of certain nutrients like zinc and vitamin a (retinol)
-often times low total calories because of the low calorie density of the foods

In my personal opinion it's more of a short term, therapeutic diet. Few people manage to thrive on it long term without some kind of supplementation.

 

[YourUniverse]

I found it very difficult to get a high calcium:phosphate ratio while getting lots of protein. Beans are very phosphate dense.

Then if you bypass those issues with lots of green leaves, you could run into serotonin issues with all the roughage & starch, while food prep time spikes.

All the while having to side step foods of ease laden with vegetable oils and soy products, further limiting food choices.

I like Travis's vegan diet, ~1lb of kale (although he eats it raw?), Tons of dates, a coconut, and a pineapple, with coffee. His protein is ~50g, though, and he has reasons for preferring low protein, but Ray insists on 80+ from high quality sources like dairy, eggs and shellfish

 

[ecstatichamster]

doesn't sound enjoyable to me at all.

I think you have to enjoy your food. I'm not interested in "food = fuel". I'm interested in health and enjoyment BOTH.

Also, Peat says raw veggies other than carrot salad are indigestible and create endotoxin loads and I see no reason to say this is wrong.

Further, for me, I can't eat beans or lentils and I don't think these are good foods anyway. Nor are whole grains of course (not that most people advocate those here but I have seen some "pro bean" threads...)

 

[CarbAppreciator]

If overall fat intake is very low, pufa is less dangerous as it tends not to be stored.

For what its worth, I think there is an argument to be made that veganism is disgusting and immoral. Sitting around and constantly shoveling low quality fibrous foods into mashing jaws is disgusting, and supporting costly and destructive tropical big ag, and not assuming humanity's place at the top of the food chain is immoral.

 

[MatheusPN]

I have been vegan since 16,5 and vegetarian since 11, now I have 20... Always eat tons of fruits an low fat...

I eat commonly: Orange Juice, sweetsops, persimmon, potato, collard, eggplant, zucchini, beets, carrots, parsley, celery, coffee, palm oil sugar, all greens cooked; im cronometer all nutrients ranging between 132% to 1940%, protein 72gr to 86gr...

The only one a bit difficult to me is Vitamin E (132%)

 

[Kartoffel]

I like Travis's vegan diet, ~1lb of kale (although he eats it raw?), Tons of dates, a coconut, and a pineapple, with coffee. His protein is ~50g, though, and he has reasons for preferring low protein, but Ray insists on 80+ from high quality sources like dairy, eggs and shellfish

Yummy. I can't imagine how anyone could stomach that for more than a day, and the raw fiber would probably kill anybody that already has digestive issues. If you want to eat kale, cook it the German way - for several hours and with a lot of of tasty meat.

 

[MatheusPN]

robknob you think what you said is unreasonable, irrational, no? Why you dont think you are in the lower of the food chain?
Massacring babies and abusing creatures unnecessarily and cruelly is disgusting! Have you ever been able to feel the suffering of these babies?
Or have you imagined how monstrous it is, transforming a living being into a sensitive milk machine?
I knew people that have been in the top of the food chain, they eat humans, and others eat gods as well, like Cronos
You is capable of doing that too?
Anyway, fights hardly have any honor or any use, in real world, imagine here

 

[Dolf]

If overall fat intake is very low, pufa is less dangerous as it tends not to be stored.

I had not thought of that. Thanks. I don't like veganism either, the taste is horrible, and my metabolism took a dump while trying vegan.

Ans thanks to everyone for their replies

 

[MatheusPN]

My metabolism was always high, when I become vegan, even higher, where I lived, while people are with lots of clothes, I was with sun clothes, and some people said to me, how you are warmer (here we hug and kiss everyone)

The highest better difference was when I stoped using legumes and ate even more fruits
Since peating (stop: legumes, raw vegetables, changing to foods with much less phytoestrogen or without serotonin, less carotene, avoiding pufa, mufa, bad chemicals. Using aspirin, cyproheptadine etc) i have to eat much more than never 4000-5000 kcal to maintain 49kg at 161 cm (108lbs at 5.28 feet)

 

[Dolf]

My metabolism was always high, when I become vegan, even higher, where I lived, while people are with lots of clothes, I was with sun clothes, and some people said to me, how you are warmer (here we hug and kiss everyone)

The highest better difference was when I stoped using legumes and ate even more fruits
Since peating (stop: legumes, raw vegetables, changing to foods with much less phytoestrogen or without serotonin, less carotene, avoiding pufa, mufa, bad chemicals. Using aspirin, cyproheptadine etc) i have to eat much more than never 4000-5000 kcal to maintain 49kg at 161 cm (108lbs at 5.28 feet)

Maybe is depending on the person. I've always had cold feet since I was a kid. Becoming vegan made it worse. Maybe because I mostly ate veggies and not enough fruit.

 

[Cirion]

My metabolism was always high, when I become vegan, even higher, where I lived, while people are with lots of clothes, I was with sun clothes, and some people said to me, how you are warmer (here we hug and kiss everyone)

The highest better difference was when I stoped using legumes and ate even more fruits
Since peating (stop: legumes, raw vegetables, changing to foods with much less phytoestrogen or without serotonin, less carotene, avoiding pufa, mufa, bad chemicals. Using aspirin, cyproheptadine etc) i have to eat much more than never 4000-5000 kcal to maintain 49kg at 161 cm (108lbs at 5.28 feet)

@MatheusPN

Just curious, could you expand on your diet?

Always interesting to hear about people able to eat lots of food without gaining weight. I mean I weigh double your weight (215lb) and I maintain at the same caloric intake (4000-5000) so maintaining at that level at your weight is impressive indeed.

I'm not surprised though by your result. It sounds like you're avoiding alot of the toxic foods which get malabsorbed.

 

[benaoao]

Vegans who fail haven’t ditched oils. That’s emphasized a lot by various pro vegan doctors. At this point I believe that ALL food groups agree that no oil is fine besides MCT (and coconut oil is half fine thanks only to the MCTs in it)

While we’re mentioning Greger I’d like to point out he actually made a balanced video once. What they call Flexitarians aka People who truly eat real foods, showing they’ve got it good too.

Do Flexitarians Live Longer? | NutritionFacts.org

Going all in is unnecessary effort for the people who don’t have the full control of the surroundings, social obligations and so on

My metabolism was always high, when I become vegan, even higher, where I lived, while people are with lots of clothes, I was with sun clothes, and some people said to me, how you are warmer (here we hug and kiss everyone)

The highest better difference was when I stoped using legumes and ate even more fruits
Since peating (stop: legumes, raw vegetables, changing to foods with much less phytoestrogen or without serotonin, less carotene, avoiding pufa, mufa, bad chemicals. Using aspirin, cyproheptadine etc) i have to eat much more than never 4000-5000 kcal to maintain 49kg at 161 cm (108lbs at 5.28 feet)

How the hell do you eat so many calories excluding so many foods? Genuinely curious, I’d love to see what a typical day is like.

 

[MatheusPN]

Basically I eat when I am in the work months per day:
Always
1 to 1,5 liters of orange juice
12 little potatoes, without peel, steamed for 50 minutes
10 Sweetsops (sugar-apples), or the others Annonas
20 medium collards, fried in coconut oil
6 tablespoons of coconut oil
Almost always
One punch of parsley and celery, fried
1 big carrot
2 Cucumber
1 American cup of coffee
1 handful of spinach
5 Tablespoons of sugar
Usually
Beets, zucchini, eggplant, kale, grapes, cooked bananas (Serotonin, but if remember correctly have dopamine also, and I love them, soo cheap ans easy).

Tomorrow I pretend to expand more In my vacations, have much much more diversity and taste more well, (i dont cook well)

Here in my job, the coworkers practically always says when a new client closes to the dinner, how much I eat, I eat so much that my belly becomes like i have 30kg more, I have pics, and in the jobs months I have 4 bowel movements and eat 3 times, in vacation have 7 to 10 bowel movements, but eat always

 

[Cirion]

How much protein are you getting? Seems like a low protein intake. Otherwise looks pretty good.

Never heard of sugar apples before...

Interesting that your only fat intake at all seems to be coconut oil... so basically 100% SFA intake

 

[MatheusPN]

Oh thanks for the interest Cirion!

Sugar apples are im the same family of Cherimola and Atemoia, and they are close in how they taste...

I know Potatoes are highly quality protein even higher than eggs... In a day I eat between 72 to 86gr...

 

[lvysaur]

One punch of parsley and celery, fried

I've noticed on this site that when people say "fried" they really mean "cooked in oil", or "sauteed".

Everyone talks about "frying" mushrooms, but I can't imagine that there are that many Peaters covering mushrooms in flour and dunking them in coconut/olive oil.

 

[MatheusPN]

Cirion, thanks for the interest!

Potatoes are high quality protein, more than eggs, and have great composition also... I eat between 72 to 86gr of protein
I too like very much this SFA aspect! And dont like the starch aspect...

Remembered now, that I solve my problems with sleep, always sleep well between 1 to 4h and 18 to 20h and bad between 20h to 24h... Now i cant even remember a bad sleep night, even when I only sleep 7h... I will publish he details on how tomorrow, sugar, salt, light, and the principal and maybe the only one necessary the same time sleep, easy!

 

[Cirion]

What makes you say they're higher quality than egg? I think I've heard that before but just wondering. Just regular white egg? peeled? I assume you get organic sugar apples to avoid pesticides and what not? Any advantages to regular apples, or do you get them just because you like them?

I guess 70-80g protein is fine since you only weigh a little over 100. Do you weight lift or do any sort of exercise? That would be my other concern with a little lower on protein intake since protein is needed to support exercise especially weight lifting. It seems like to maintain my lean mass which is significantly more than yours (just saying as a matter of fact, not to boast), that 80g protein wouldn't be nearly enough, and to get like the 125-150g protein I need would be an insane amount of potatoes... lol

 

[MatheusPN]

Stew can be too right?
Thanks Pokemon dictionary

Cirion, tomorrow i will clarify, I like this aspect as well, and will relate how this diet helped