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Why low carbers looks more androgenic.

DDRB

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I think there's also a connection between the low carb/paleo scene an the crossfit scene. It's been many years since I've been really interested in that stuff. But back then low carb/paleo was pretty popular aming crossfitters. So it could be that the cause and effect relationship - if there is one in the first place - is actually the other way around: not low carb leads to a more androgenic, muscular appearance but muscular guys are more attracted by low carb.
yes high fat diets seem to attract more "androgens" in the first place, there is something warm about fat, bon vivants love fat.
But the point is that it seems to me that high fat diets tend to make, at least some people, more androgenic(or at least more "thin").
 
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haidut

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can more potassium reduce water retention? (as opposed to sodium)

Water retention is usually due to elevated cortisol/estrogen. So, aspirin may be a better option and anecdotally it does make me lose the occasional "puffiness" after a long, stressful day. Progesterone would probably have similar effects, as should other substances that oppose cortisol/estrogen.
 

DDRB

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Water retention is usually due to elevated cortisol/estrogen. So, aspirin may be a better option and anecdotally it does make me lose the occasional "puffiness" after a long, stressful day. Progesterone would probably have similar effects, as should other substances that oppose cortisol/estrogen.
ty, I am naturally stressed / anxious so I think it must actually make it worse.
 

Quelsatron

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keto people are very often gymbro/manosphere minded and either are or try to be more androgenic, plus you have an easier time fitting protein into the diet
 

Milos

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Restricting carbs has a diuretic effect. That does not mean it makes one look androgenic, maybe more defined, with visible veins, which people may or may not find attractive. Bodybuilders go into carb-restricting mode a few days before competition to get the defined look for the crowd and judges. However, even they admit this is not really healthy and can lead to kidney issues (among others) if done for too long.
It goes out w/o saying that energy is really hard to deplete once u have a more full, round muscle and a little fat above it. Looks arent everything and i think so too, bodybuilders feel the worst after they finish a workout that hasnt been carb fueled before hand. Cyclical carb loading is important too, he must have been overdoing his carb sessions for too long to get to that state.
 

Peater

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Water retention is usually due to elevated cortisol/estrogen. So, aspirin may be a better option and anecdotally it does make me lose the occasional "puffiness" after a long, stressful day. Progesterone would probably have similar effects, as should other substances that oppose cortisol/estrogen.
Is androsterone also useful for this issue?
 

baccheion

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Less carbs = less insulin = less aldosterone = less salt/water retention. They need to replace with vasopressin, though, as aldosterone has some positive effects like protecting against sunken eyes and crow's feet.

Low calcium + magnesium slow metabolism mode also is associated with low aldosterone. And low fat. Also leads to rise of DHEA (+ cortisol). Anabolic steroids are biased toward this mode and everything else associated with masculinity. For example, 12-15 lbs russet potatoes + sustained-release melatonin + DHEA. Maybe some milk (2.5 or 4 cups??) for a bit of calcium and fat/fat-soluble.

Higher dopamine is also associated with lower aldosterone and the darker/dryer look. DHEA increases dopamine.

Further, DHEA stems protein wasting by burning fats instead. Even less protein needed when PRAL net alkaline (like with potatoes).
 

OccamzRazer

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For example, 12-15 lbs russet potatoes + sustained-release melatonin + DHEA. Maybe some milk (2.5 or 4 cups??) for a bit of calcium and fat/fat-soluble.
I've seen you mention this a couple of times. What is this based on? Do you know someone who eats this way? Do YOU eat this way? Just a bit confused, thanks!
 

Daft

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Likely due to getting adequate saturated fats, less inflammatory insulin spikes, and stable energy levels due to not relying solely on carbs, which are hard to eat enough of to reach say 2500 calories a day at 3 meals, and even the slowest releasing of which run out resulting in energy levels dropping, whereas fats release much more slowly, so in all likelihood resting metabolic rate/one's metabolism slows down, thyroid reduces, to adapt to a low fat diet, unless you eat more frequent meals like bodybuilders do with meal prep.

I believe I originally found it here or on ergo log years ago the ideal amount per 1000 calories is 15g sat fat, and similarly for monounsaturated fats, resulted in the highest androgen (testosterone or DHT) levels. This makes sense since saturated fats increase LDL cholesterol, the precursor to androgens.

Here is a study alluding to this along with it's references to look into further; pretty established:
Diet and serum sex hormones in healthy men - PubMed 40% fat versus 25% fat = latter lowers testosterone.

Vegetable police is a great experimental proof of concept of going from one diet to the other, and being very consistent and disciplined with it, and being very transparent with the results.

I recently tried a low fat diet to lose fat, and it seems to work, but it makes you prone to feeling a bit worn out sometimes, anxiety, difficulties with sleep, as the stress hormones can be prone to remain elevated especially if also exercising or physically active. It's easy to simply under-eat.

Now mind you this doesn't necessarily mean too much saturated fat is good. There's reasons believe there's such a thing as too much which I could get into, such it's effect on blood flow (as measured by flow-mediated dilation), and preferential fat storage propensity.

Aha, I've found the study and graph:

Testosterone and cortisol in relationship to dietary nutrients and resistance exercise​

1652409684033.png
 

Daft

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I've seen you mention this a couple of times. What is this based on? Do you know someone who eats this way? Do YOU eat this way? Just a bit confused, thanks!
Dr. MacDougall does. He always says "have more potatahs". Less olive oil, more potatahs. Don't forget to have your potatahs for breakfast, and at noon and evening for - you guessed it - potatah time 2 and 3, every day forevah.
Dr. McDougall Was Fired from Speaking at the Obesity Medicine Conference - Dr. McDougall
Interesting debate and drama from 2016.

A note on high carb causing bloating to OP: Bodybuilders stop eating carbs leading up to competitions to reduce the water retention glycogen storage in muscles causes, so perhaps your slight bloat could be from that extra 300-400g glycogen being stored in the muscles throughout the body.

Here is however perhaps something important to consider regarding his own life experience though having a heart attack at age 18:
 
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SamYo123

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Less carbs = less insulin = less aldosterone = less salt/water retention. They need to replace with vasopressin, though, as aldosterone has some positive effects like protecting against sunken eyes and crow's feet.

Low calcium + magnesium slow metabolism mode also is associated with low aldosterone. And low fat. Also leads to rise of DHEA (+ cortisol). Anabolic steroids are biased toward this mode and everything else associated with masculinity. For example, 12-15 lbs russet potatoes + sustained-release melatonin + DHEA. Maybe some milk (2.5 or 4 cups??) for a bit of calcium and fat/fat-soluble.

Higher dopamine is also associated with lower aldosterone and the darker/dryer look. DHEA increases dopamine.

Further, DHEA stems protein wasting by burning fats instead. Even less protein needed when PRAL net alkaline (like with potatoes).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee2OTKti_Ec
 

SamYo123

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Dr. MacDougall does. He always says "have more potatahs". Less olive oil, more potatahs. Don't forget to have your potatahs for breakfast, and at noon and evening for - you guessed it - potatah time 2 and 3, every day forevah.
Dr. McDougall Was Fired from Speaking at the Obesity Medicine Conference - Dr. McDougall
Interesting debate and drama from 2016.

A note on high carb causing bloating to OP: Bodybuilders stop eating carbs leading up to competitions to reduce the water retention glycogen storage in muscles causes, so perhaps your slight bloat could be from that extra 300-400g glycogen being stored in the muscles throughout the body.

Here is however perhaps something important to consider regarding his own life experience though having a heart attack at age 18:

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CddR7VcOS5E/
 

EustaceBagge

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Dr. MacDougall does. He always says "have more potatahs". Less olive oil, more potatahs. Don't forget to have your potatahs for breakfast, and at noon and evening for - you guessed it - potatah time 2 and 3, every day forevah.
Dr. McDougall Was Fired from Speaking at the Obesity Medicine Conference - Dr. McDougall
Interesting debate and drama from 2016.

A note on high carb causing bloating to OP: Bodybuilders stop eating carbs leading up to competitions to reduce the water retention glycogen storage in muscles causes, so perhaps your slight bloat could be from that extra 300-400g glycogen being stored in the muscles throughout the body.

Here is however perhaps something important to consider regarding his own life experience though having a heart attack at age 18:
Bodybuilders stop eating carbs only to increase sensitivity so they can shock the system 1-2 days before competition.

Trust me, carbs channel water into the muscle, between bone and muscle, not between muscle and skin, so the water weight is quality weight.

It is all about balance, don't overdo it of course.
 

OccamzRazer

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DDRB

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Bodybuilders stop eating carbs only to increase sensitivity so they can shock the system 1-2 days before competition.

Trust me, carbs channel water into the muscle, between bone and muscle, not between muscle and skin, so the water weight is quality weight.

It is all about balance, don't overdo it of course.
so how to explain the water retention on the midsection, especially the reeds ?
 

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