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Why is my instinct anti-carb (and even anti-peat ?) ?

DDRB

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Joined
May 6, 2022
Messages
147
Location
France, Toulouse
I read a lot about carbohydrates and their supposed importance for oxidative metabolism, CO2, thyroid hormones etc. I also watched a number of videos from personalities known to advocate very high carb diets, such as McDougall, Douglas Graham, Furhman etc and various fitness youtubers with similar ideas.
However, as my previous topics on this forum suggest, I am beginning to doubt more and more for several reasons and one in particular:

If human are "starchivores" or "frugivores", why following this kind of diet like I do is actually ******* TORTURE???
Excuse me for the profanity, but I'M TIRED of eating this ******* rice, beans, potatoes etc, there isn't a meal that I don't force myself to finish by forcing this spoonful of rice in my fly it's just NOT good, I can't believe it's our natural food, it's impossible I refuse it, the starches and vegetables are disgusting.
Sugar is terrible too, I like smoothies and a few whole fruits here and there, but consuming as much sugar as some people on this forum do is IMPOSSIBLE, it's just disgusting and disgusting, exceeding 200 grams of sugar a day is torture.
I don't like milk, it's bland and drastically reduces my cognition.

Conversely, I love fat, I want raw salmon, mashed hazelnuts, skinned chicken thighs, butter, GOOD LARGE FAT PORK RIND...
Why does my body want this kind of food especially when I feel bad and unmotivated? WHY ?
When I was younger I ate a lot of fat and meat and had a good metabolism (???), got top grades, was instinctively kind, disciplined and very motivated for stuff as simple as playing minecraft, when I was under MUCH more stress than I am now.
Today the more I eat high carb the more my motivation decreases and I become a bad person, I even tried HCLF veganism and I became a son of a ***** enjoying hurting people, sending spades etc.

...

I want hazelnut
 

-Luke-

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
761
If it feels like torture, don't do it.

Perceive, Think, Act > "[...]a number of videos from personalities[...]"
 

shine

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Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
664
Don't take what Peat says or people on this forum write as gospel. If you feel good, keep doing what you are doing. If you feel bad, stop doing what you are doing and try something else.
 

LLight

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Joined
May 30, 2018
Messages
1,096
What are your health issues in the first place?
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
115
Learn to cook well your food. Go to a Italian restaurant and come back.
Eat what you crave, avoid PUFA, keep a high carb diet and you are good to go.
 

Herbie

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Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,956
This is what happens when the body is has adapted to fat oxidation.

If the body is adapted to sugar oxidation then the person feels the way you feel about carbs about fat.
 

LeeLemonoil

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Sep 24, 2016
Messages
3,416
Many tend to forget or don’t know at all these while there is a broad evolutionary corridor that determines what is „healthy“ and beneficial for human organism … there Are necessarily outliers to it. Otherwise evolution would have failed.

Some are outliers. If our environment would change to suit the needs of the outliers than the current broad corridor of what benefits most would struggle, the outlier would thrive - that’s how a species survives and adapts.

Eat what you crave if it benefits your health and improves how you feel.

Do not war what you crave if it makes you sick and miserable.

For gods sake don’t ear what you find unbearable and on top of it makes you feel bad.
 
Joined
Apr 4, 2021
Messages
499
Fats, especially the short chained fats of coconut oil or the ketones of potatos are a stable energy source which enter the cells easily. The more unsaturated and longer the fats are, the stronger is the "Randle Cycle" and might even lead you to become diabetic because they usually congest uptake of sugars into the cell or their burning. During stress and when blood sugar and glycogen drops, fats are released as an energy source and due to their long clearing time they might hinder proper utilisation of sugars.
A respirating mitochondria is ordering energy against its gradients, an inhibition of proper respiration would leave you with a glycolitic way of producing energy which is wasteful and also nearly always indicated in cancer. An endproduct of a common way of glycolisis is lactic acid, which is usually the perpetrator of the muscle sore for example. This lactic acid changes the PH and therefore also the integrity of cells, for example, there would be a higher influx of alkaline minerals and also higher influx of water or the unordering of water. This can happen in multiple other ways, too.
This congestion and anti-respiration as well as constant activation makes the cell degenerate even more and never leave its active phase. Constantly active cells need a lot more energy but an energetic resting cell nearly needs nothing.
Do not take this as a fact but at least respiration is superior to the lower forms of energy metabolism and glucose is the most efficient and constant source. Proper sugar oxidation reaps more ATP CO2 and heat(?) while needing less water and oxygen as compared to normal fat oxidation or lower forms of oxidation. ATP is structuring cells and can be better utilised with magnesium and even CO2 is structuring the cells and can make an active cell return into a resting state.
Diet is nuanced and we never know because the method of how you judge only includes the things you are aware of. If you feel better doing anything, then likely keep it that way.
In this sense, a constant oxidation of good fats still provides enough energy and structuring forces to maintain a certain equilibrium but if you want to have a more complex and differentiated state, then you likely need to provide for it accordingly. Regrowing limbs would be more so reserved for the organisms with strongest generative energy
 
Last edited:

RollingStone

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Jan 28, 2022
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44
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Our bodies are evolved and designed to run on a lot of fat for energy. We are not starchivore or frugivores. These starchy and sugary foods were barely available until pretty recently for humans through agriculture and hybridization. We might've found some berries to binge on for a month or two to fatten up a little for winter if lucky. A lot of these plant foods are very high in all kinds of antinutrients and toxic compounds as well.
 

sunny

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Nov 6, 2020
Messages
318
Peat does not recommend beans, rice probably only occasionally. Look up the user Rinse and Repeat and look at the recipe threads she has. You will get alot of eating ideas there. Eat beef, but have some gelatin with it, oysters, liver once a month or every two weeks if you like it. Add sugar and an egg to milk and then it tastes like ice cream :)
 

TheSir

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Jan 6, 2019
Messages
1,319
Eat what you crave if it benefits your health and improves how you feel.

Do not war what you crave if it makes you sick and miserable.

For gods sake don’t ear what you find unbearable and on top of it makes you feel bad.
It's funny that this does not always appear as the childishly obvious answer to us. The kind of question OP is asking can only make sense when we are drowning in dietary dogma. In a more lucid state of mind in which our awareness is less obstructed by book knowledge, the question becomes a non-question.
 
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Messages
12,270
This is what happens when the body is has adapted to fat oxidation.

If the body is adapted to sugar oxidation then the person feels the way you feel about carbs about fat.
What you said is true for me. I had no desire for sugar my whole life, not even fruit and I hated honey. I loved heavy rich food, the fat on a rib eye, tons of tartar sauce on my grilled salmon, so much butter on toast and potatoes, gravies, sour cream based dips with chips, oh my gosh it all sounds awful now that I am sugar adapted.
 

Nebula

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May 30, 2018
Messages
563
What you said is true for me. I had no desire for sugar my whole life, not even fruit and I hated honey. I loved heavy rich food, the fat on a rib eye, tons of tartar sauce on my grilled salmon, so much butter on toast and potatoes, gravies, sour cream based dips with chips, oh my gosh it all sounds awful now that I am sugar adapted.
What would you say helped you adapt back to a sugar metabolism the most? I have memories of running well on both, but no doubt when carb metabolism has been running optimal it is a much more euphoric and energetic state for me. I’d much rather prefer to run well on carbs, but it’s been elusive lately.
 

DDRB

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Thread starter
Joined
May 6, 2022
Messages
147
Location
France, Toulouse
What are your health issues in the first place?
I have always been well, apart from problems with insomnia and impulsiveness.
Fats, especially the short chained fats of coconut oil or the ketones of potatos are a stable energy source which enter the cells easily. The more unsaturated and longer the fats are, the stronger is the "Randle Cycle" and might even lead you to become diabetic because they usually congest uptake of sugars into the cell or their burning. During stress and when blood sugar and glycogen drops, fats are released as an energy source and due to their long clearing time they might hinder proper utilisation of sugars.
A respirating mitochondria is ordering energy against its gradients, an inhibition of proper respiration would leave you with a glycolitic way of producing energy which is wasteful and also nearly always indicated in cancer. An endproduct of a common way of glycolisis is lactic acid, which is usually the perpetrator of the muscle sore for example. This lactic acid changes the PH and therefore also the integrity of cells, for example, there would be a higher influx of alkaline minerals and also higher influx of water or the unordering of water. This can happen in multiple other ways, too.
This congestion and anti-respiration as well as constant activation makes the cell degenerate even more and never leave its active phase. Constantly active cells need a lot more energy but an energetic resting cell nearly needs nothing.
Do not take this as a fact but at least respiration is superior to the lower forms of energy metabolism and glucose is the most efficient and constant source. Proper sugar oxidation reaps more ATP CO2 and heat(?) while needing less water and oxygen as compared to normal fat oxidation or lower forms of oxidation. ATP is structuring cells and can be better utilised with magnesium and even CO2 is structuring the cells and can make an active cell return into a resting state.
Diet is nuanced and we never know because the method of how you judge only includes the things you are aware of. If you feel better doing anything, then likely keep it that way.
In this sense, a constant oxidation of good fats still provides enough energy and structuring forces to maintain a certain equilibrium but if you want to have a more complex and differentiated state, then you likely need to provide for it accordingly. Regrowing limbs would be more so reserved for the organisms with strongest generative energy
but there seems to be empirical evidence that omega 3 improves for example the skin, the immune system, helps to fight asthma...
Our bodies are evolved and designed to run on a lot of fat for energy. We are not starchivore or frugivores. These starchy and sugary foods were barely available until pretty recently for humans through agriculture and hybridization. We might've found some berries to binge on for a month or two to fatten up a little for winter if lucky. A lot of these plant foods are very high in all kinds of antinutrients and toxic compounds as well.
somewhat agree
Peat does not recommend beans, rice probably only occasionally. Look up the user Rinse and Repeat and look at the recipe threads she has. You will get alot of eating ideas there. Eat beef, but have some gelatin with it, oysters, liver once a month or every two weeks if you like it. Add sugar and an egg to milk and then it tastes like ice cream :)
it's milk and sugar that seem problematic to me, that's why I talk about peat
It's funny that this does not always appear as the childishly obvious answer to us. The kind of question OP is asking can only make sense when we are drowning in dietary dogma. In a more lucid state of mind in which our awareness is less obstructed by book knowledge, the question becomes a non-question.
I totally agree, but you must know as much as I do that it's not easy to break away from a dogma, it's only a matter of time.
What you said is true for me. I had no desire for sugar my whole life, not even fruit and I hated honey. I loved heavy rich food, the fat on a rib eye, tons of tartar sauce on my grilled salmon, so much butter on toast and potatoes, gravies, sour cream based dips with chips, oh my gosh it all sounds awful now that I am sugar adapted.
are you sure you are completely honest about this? what does your diet look like?
This is what happens when the body is has adapted to fat oxidation.

If the body is adapted to sugar oxidation then the person feels the way you feel about carbs about fat.
I've been eating a lot of carbs though, like 60-70% of calories a day for the past one to two years.
When I was low carb I dreamed of eating carbs, but now that I'm low fat it's the opposite.
Wouldn't the optimum be in the middle despite the randle cycle?
 

joaquin

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Shreveport
I think the optimum would be in the middle. Main thing is I stay away from seed oils (canola, soybean, corn, etc).
 

tankasnowgod

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Messages
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If human are "starchivores" or "frugivores", why following this kind of diet like I do is actually ******* TORTURE???
Um, Peat never made either of those claims, that I am aware of. His general dietary recommendations are certainly not vegan.
Excuse me for the profanity, but I'M TIRED of eating this ******* rice, beans, potatoes etc, there isn't a meal that I don't force myself to finish by forcing this spoonful of rice in my fly it's just NOT good, I can't believe it's our natural food, it's impossible I refuse it, the starches and vegetables are disgusting.
Um, do you even Peat, bro? In general, Peat doesn't recommend starches. Certainly not beans. Nor does he recommend many vegetables.
Sugar is terrible too, I like smoothies and a few whole fruits here and there, but consuming as much sugar as some people on this forum do is IMPOSSIBLE, it's just disgusting and disgusting, exceeding 200 grams of sugar a day is torture.
Impossible? Hardly. People eating the SAD do it all the time. Have you seen convenience store beverages? If you get a 32 oz drink, you could easily get 120g of sugar just from that, maybe more if you don't put in any ice. If you just drank 4 cups of orange juice in a day, that's also 120g of sugar, which would almost cover your bare bones carb needs for a day.
I don't like milk, it's bland and drastically reduces my cognition.
I don't know what kind of milk you're drinking. Skim does taste kinda bland, but I've always liked the taste of whole milk, personally.
Conversely, I love fat, I want raw salmon, mashed hazelnuts, skinned chicken thighs, butter, GOOD LARGE FAT PORK RIND...
Hmmm, steak didn't even make the list? You would certainly be unique in the low carb community, seeming to prioritize hazelnuts and salmon, but to each his own.
 

tankasnowgod

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Jan 25, 2014
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I've been eating a lot of carbs though, like 60-70% of calories a day for the past one to two years.
When I was low carb I dreamed of eating carbs, but now that I'm low fat it's the opposite.
Wouldn't the optimum be in the middle despite the randle cycle?
Why so high? Especially if coming from low carb, and wanting more fatty foods, why not try to do something like 150-200g of carbs a day? That's more like 20-30% depending on calories. Did you read up on the starch free diet thread?

I think you need to read up on the Randle Cycle, too. It's only thought to happen at a cellular level, not a whole body level. If you look at your body as a whole, you are burning fat and glucose every second of every day.
 

DDRB

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Um, Peat never made either of those claims, that I am aware of. His general dietary recommendations are certainly not vegan.

Um, do you even Peat, bro? In general, Peat doesn't recommend starches. Certainly not beans. Nor does he recommend many vegetables.
I said "anti-peat" in relation to milk and sugar, the criticism of starch is something else.
Actually I don't have a very peaty diet.
Impossible? Hardly. People eating the SAD do it all the time. Have you seen convenience store beverages? If you get a 32 oz drink, you could easily get 120g of sugar just from that, maybe more if you don't put in any ice. If you just drank 4 cups of orange juice in a day, that's also 120g of sugar, which would almost cover your bare bones carb needs for a day.
I didn't grow up eating sad.
I drink orange juice, but because it's not too sweet and it's fruity, it takes me several hours to drink a liter too.
I don't know what kind of milk you're drinking. Skim does taste kinda bland, but I've always liked the taste of whole milk, personally.
I don't drink milk, but when it does it's raw or microfiltered milk, usually from Jersey cows.
I don't think I have a problem with cheese
Hmmm, steak didn't even make the list? You would certainly be unique in the low carb community, seeming to prioritize hazelnuts and salmon, but to each his own.
yes
 

tankasnowgod

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I didn't grow up eating sad.
I drink orange juice, but because it's not too sweet and it's fruity, it takes me several hours to drink a liter too.
Okay, so why not just do a liter of orange juice a day for your carbs? And then, hit your favorite protein and fat based foods for the rest of your calories? That would be mostly in line with what people are doing in the no starch diet thread-


A lot of people (myself included) have found that diet to be particularly satisfying. I usually fry up a potato once a week in Hydrogenated Coconut Oil for French Fries, but I'm mostly following that style of diet at the moment.
 

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