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Why low carbers looks more androgenic.

DDRB

Member
Joined
May 6, 2022
Messages
21
Location
France, Perpignan
Ii believe what i've seen on the ray peat forum and other places, carbs should make you more masculine by optimizing testosterone production (+gnrh) and uptake (detaching testosterone from shbg and albumin), they should also make you more muscular thanks to insulin.

However, to start with my personal case, I eat a lot of carbohydrates (+400mg per day) and I am thin, but I still have some water retention which makes me look "fat" which only disappears when I eat less calories OR a lot less carbs, when I was on low-carb I looked slimmer (less water, especially on the midsection), I almost had the "apollo belt " somehow.

To compare the different figures of the different diets, as I have already said in one of my old topics the promoters of lowcarb/keto diets etc) generally have at worst a "masculine" air, calm, concise, rational, and at best are particularly androgenic especially when they play sports.
Besides most proponents of high carb or vegetarian diets are either skinny, overweight and generally have little muscle tone, the only strong vegetarians/high-carbists I know are or have been doped or at least do a LOT of exercise and are not low fat.

To quote two YouTubers with the opposite course:

-Hench Herbivore: He's a bodybuilder, he was doped so there's a bias but if you watch his very early videos you can clearly see he was much more "androgenic" in his attitude, I saw a video where he is in a gym and explains how the machines work, he looks calm, composed and serious.
Today he looks like a typical hysterical vegan, constantly makes dirty videos, regularly shows himself shirtless (narcisistic), has exaggerated or even fake facial expressions, "honey is bee vomit bweee"

Conversely, Vegetable Police:
I like him, he looks a lot like me in some respects, when he was vegan he looked like a fragile lambda vegan, then because of intestinal problems he adopted at some point a very high fat diet, with some carbohydrates ( coconut water), most of whose calories came from beef fat, avocado and meat.
He was in fact never as manly as when he was on this diet and basically went from a fragile physique to a strong man physique, muscular front, more imposing forearms, curiously a more androgenic haircut too , it is quite impressive.
he became lean and weak on a vegan/high carb diet then regained weight by reintroducing meat and fats

Capture d’écran 2022-05-12 à 12.25.55.png
 

Brandin

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Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
410
Ii believe what i've seen on the ray peat forum and other places, carbs should make you more masculine by optimizing testosterone production (+gnrh) and uptake (detaching testosterone from shbg and albumin), they should also make you more muscular thanks to insulin.

However, to start with my personal case, I eat a lot of carbohydrates (+400mg per day) and I am thin, but I still have some water retention which makes me look "fat" which only disappears when I eat less calories OR a lot less carbs, when I was on low-carb I looked slimmer (less water, especially on the midsection), I almost had the "apollo belt " somehow.

To compare the different figures of the different diets, as I have already said in one of my old topics the promoters of lowcarb/keto diets etc) generally have at worst a "masculine" air, calm, concise, rational, and at best are particularly androgenic especially when they play sports.
Besides most proponents of high carb or vegetarian diets are either skinny, overweight and generally have little muscle tone, the only strong vegetarians/high-carbists I know are or have been doped or at least do a LOT of exercise and are not low fat.

To quote two YouTubers with the opposite course:

-Hench Herbivore: He's a bodybuilder, he was doped so there's a bias but if you watch his very early videos you can clearly see he was much more "androgenic" in his attitude, I saw a video where he is in a gym and explains how the machines work, he looks calm, composed and serious.
Today he looks like a typical hysterical vegan, constantly makes dirty videos, regularly shows himself shirtless (narcisistic), has exaggerated or even fake facial expressions, "honey is bee vomit bweee"

Conversely, Vegetable Police:
I like him, he looks a lot like me in some respects, when he was vegan he looked like a fragile lambda vegan, then because of intestinal problems he adopted at some point a very high fat diet, with some carbohydrates ( coconut water), most of whose calories came from beef fat, avocado and meat.
He was in fact never as manly as when he was on this diet and basically went from a fragile physique to a strong man physique, muscular front, more imposing forearms, curiously a more androgenic haircut too , it is quite impressive.
he became lean and weak on a vegan/high carb diet then regained weight by reintroducing meat and fats

View attachment 36611
Bro sorry but this is bs. The reason Some people look high water retention is because the body havent gooten used to it. I looked somewhat androgenic, started peating looked meh. After a year of peating I started becoming absolutely shredded woth zero water retention eating 600+ grams of carbs a day (4500kcals). In the begginning the pufa stored makes you less insulin sensitive so eating carbs makes you less lean but when:
1: ur body have gotten used to the carbs
2: you have been depleted of pufa
3: your thyroid have gotten good enough
4: you have lowered inflammation significantly
Your gonna start becoming insanely vascular and lean. Happened for me atleast.

The reason keto people look more androgenic when they do keto than when not is because their body couldnt properly utilize the carbs wich makes them just store it as fat. Therefore cutting them out makes them lean (in the unhealthy way)... They also become vascular in the unhealthy way (nitric oxide) instead of carbon dioxide.

But trust me if you succesfully make your body able to utilize carbon dioxide instead and succesfully increase it you will have insane veins....

Also he was vegan. That means lack of balance in micronutrients and lack of high quallity proteins + plenty och anti nutrients and phytoestrogens. He probably ate significantly more pufa when he was vegan compared to keto woch literally signals estrogenic and increases water retention...
 

DDRB

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Bro sorry but this is bs. The reason Some people look high water retention is because the body havent gooten used to it. I looked somewhat androgenic, started peating looked meh. After a year of peating I started becoming absolutely shredded woth zero water retention eating 600+ grams of carbs a day (4500kcals). In the begginning the pufa stored makes you less insulin sensitive so eating carbs makes you less lean but when:
1: ur body have gotten used to the carbs
2: you have been depleted of pufa
3: your thyroid have gotten good enough
4: you have lowered inflammation significantly
Your gonna start becoming insanely vascular and lean. Happened for me atleast.

The reason keto people look more androgenic when they do keto than when not is because their body couldnt properly utilize the carbs wich makes them just store it as fat. Therefore cutting them out makes them lean (in the unhealthy way)... They also become vascular in the unhealthy way (nitric oxide) instead of carbon dioxide.

But trust me if you succesfully make your body able to utilize carbon dioxide instead and succesfully increase it you will have insane veins....

Also he was vegan. That means lack of balance in micronutrients and lack of high quallity proteins + plenty och anti nutrients and phytoestrogens. He probably ate significantly more pufa when he was vegan compared to keto woch literally signals estrogenic and increases water retention...
you may be right, but then how do you "get used to carbs"?
I've been on high carb for almost two years and I still have this water retention, and I'm not very vascular. Just the two main veins of the fat front that get a little bigger when I do hammer curls.
More carbohydrate does not seem very palatable too, what is your diet?
 

Peatful

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
1,963
Bro sorry but this is bs. The reason Some people look high water retention is because the body havent gooten used to it. I looked somewhat androgenic, started peating looked meh. After a year of peating I started becoming absolutely shredded woth zero water retention eating 600+ grams of carbs a day (4500kcals). In the begginning the pufa stored makes you less insulin sensitive so eating carbs makes you less lean but when:
1: ur body have gotten used to the carbs
2: you have been depleted of pufa
3: your thyroid have gotten good enough
4: you have lowered inflammation significantly
Your gonna start becoming insanely vascular and lean. Happened for me atleast.

The reason keto people look more androgenic when they do keto than when not is because their body couldnt properly utilize the carbs wich makes them just store it as fat. Therefore cutting them out makes them lean (in the unhealthy way)... They also become vascular in the unhealthy way (nitric oxide) instead of carbon dioxide.

But trust me if you succesfully make your body able to utilize carbon dioxide instead and succesfully increase it you will have insane veins....

Also he was vegan. That means lack of balance in micronutrients and lack of high quallity proteins + plenty och anti nutrients and phytoestrogens. He probably ate significantly more pufa when he was vegan compared to keto woch literally signals estrogenic and increases water retention...
Insightful post.
Good on you.
 

Herbie

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Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,847
They may have shredded midsection but watch their faces age, sag, look gaunt and for dark circles around the eyes
 

DDRB

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Durianrider looks shredded, and is a high carber.... under 10g fat per day..
He is very (too) thin, he has muscles but has used steroids, and may still be on HRT. He used to look like a cotton swab, he also had teething problems and had several teeth replaced, he looks like doug graham but with a bicycle instead of calisthenics..
Freele has no muscle, so does DR's new wife, most guys who follow 80/10/10 either.
 

SamYo123

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Oct 4, 2019
Messages
879
He is very (too) thin, he has muscles but has used steroids, and may still be on HRT. He used to look like a cotton swab, he also had teething problems and had several teeth replaced, he looks like doug graham but with a bicycle instead of calisthenics..
Freele has no muscle, so does DR's new wife, most guys who follow 80/10/10 either.
Yeah but you that would be normal to look thin if you are cycling...

Most tribes that are high carb look thin-lean usually live longer

He would look a bit thicker if no bicycle, and did weights at the time. But yes now it seems hes doing less riding, more weights and TRT for some self experiment

In tribal times there were no weight lifting to build the sort of muscle we can now, nor was it really important to survival. The lean muscle came about from hunting food navigating environmental terrains


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k29c1fYwCIg
 

Nomane Euger

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Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
1,106
the question is how to have the best of both worlds.
hi,from my experiences, to much sugar relative to other foods claimed to be rich in minerals such as milk fruits coconut water overtime will make me feel bad and retain water and and get fattyer,retain more water and be fattyer than if i would be eating low carb,and make me feel less masculine,.

if i do get enough claimed mineral rich foods with the sugar(even in very high amount like 500 grammes to a 1kilo of honey a day)such as the ones as mentionned,i feel great and i dont get exessive water retention and i dont get fat.

in term of masculinity,low carbers can eat foods that do increase some aspects of masculinity if you digest it and eat enough of it,such as grass fed meat,organs,fat.

vegan men that eat peasants foods,dont eat animals foods and dont supplement hormones on a long enough period will start to sound and behave more "feminine",because some of these peasants foods are not specifically positive for them,some of these foods are bad,and on the long run they probably deplete them self of some of the elements found in animal foods.

if you eat a lot of ripe fruits,with a life style not to stressfull,with not much animals foods,on a long enough period you will start to sound and behave childish,some of these characteristics would be commonly associated to feminity if you are a man past puberty.even if you eat a lof of ripe fruits,if you eat enough animals foods and or have enough stressfull stimulus such as hard work out,you can reach peak masculinity.

a few of these low carbers do sound somewhat masculine,yet they appear way to serious,no fun,no enthusiasm,no joyfullness,no sense of humour,no self-mockery,rigid minded,with carbs you can reach as high or higher degree of maculinity with all the positives characteristicsi mentionned to you prior
 

Milos

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Montenegro
U have a lot of work to do if u are going trough the process of de novo lipogenesis (making fat from sugar) so probably keep your protein and fat infront of sugars to stay lean, muscular and more androgenic
 

crazypatriot

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Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
7
The more muscle you have and training you do, the more carbs you can utilize for muscle glycogen. Eating carbs beyond that may affect people differently, but water retention can happen, especially if you are in a caloric surplus. Carbohydrates are the ideal fuel source for physical activity.
 

Milos

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I would absolutely agree with this one. The more muscle, the less fat and u are the best version of yourself. How to implement this in practice though, is a lot tougher on people than it seems like. 😀
The more muscle you have and training you do, the more carbs you can utilize for muscle glycogen. Eating carbs beyond that may affect people differently, but water retention can happen, especially if you are in a caloric surplus. Carbohydrates are the ideal fuel source for physical activity.
 

-Luke-

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Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
646
I think there's also a connection between the low carb/paleo scene an the crossfit scene. It's been many years since I've been really interested in that stuff. But back then low carb/paleo was pretty popular aming crossfitters. So it could be that the cause and effect relationship - if there is one in the first place - is actually the other way around: not low carb leads to a more androgenic, muscular appearance but muscular guys are more attracted by low carb.
 

EustaceBagge

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Amsterdam
If one naturally craves fatty foods and automatically eats low carbs, is that a sign of bad health? I do not really like pure carbs that much compared to dairy/meat products.

And I'm naturally thickly veined, does that make me nitric oxide dominant and how do I know it is CO2 based or not.
 

haidut

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USA / Europe
Ii believe what i've seen on the ray peat forum and other places, carbs should make you more masculine by optimizing testosterone production (+gnrh) and uptake (detaching testosterone from shbg and albumin), they should also make you more muscular thanks to insulin.

However, to start with my personal case, I eat a lot of carbohydrates (+400mg per day) and I am thin, but I still have some water retention which makes me look "fat" which only disappears when I eat less calories OR a lot less carbs, when I was on low-carb I looked slimmer (less water, especially on the midsection), I almost had the "apollo belt " somehow.

To compare the different figures of the different diets, as I have already said in one of my old topics the promoters of lowcarb/keto diets etc) generally have at worst a "masculine" air, calm, concise, rational, and at best are particularly androgenic especially when they play sports.
Besides most proponents of high carb or vegetarian diets are either skinny, overweight and generally have little muscle tone, the only strong vegetarians/high-carbists I know are or have been doped or at least do a LOT of exercise and are not low fat.

To quote two YouTubers with the opposite course:

-Hench Herbivore: He's a bodybuilder, he was doped so there's a bias but if you watch his very early videos you can clearly see he was much more "androgenic" in his attitude, I saw a video where he is in a gym and explains how the machines work, he looks calm, composed and serious.
Today he looks like a typical hysterical vegan, constantly makes dirty videos, regularly shows himself shirtless (narcisistic), has exaggerated or even fake facial expressions, "honey is bee vomit bweee"

Conversely, Vegetable Police:
I like him, he looks a lot like me in some respects, when he was vegan he looked like a fragile lambda vegan, then because of intestinal problems he adopted at some point a very high fat diet, with some carbohydrates ( coconut water), most of whose calories came from beef fat, avocado and meat.
He was in fact never as manly as when he was on this diet and basically went from a fragile physique to a strong man physique, muscular front, more imposing forearms, curiously a more androgenic haircut too , it is quite impressive.
he became lean and weak on a vegan/high carb diet then regained weight by reintroducing meat and fats

View attachment 36611

Restricting carbs has a diuretic effect. That does not mean it makes one look androgenic, maybe more defined, with visible veins, which people may or may not find attractive. Bodybuilders go into carb-restricting mode a few days before competition to get the defined look for the crowd and judges. However, even they admit this is not really healthy and can lead to kidney issues (among others) if done for too long.
 

DDRB

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If one naturally craves fatty foods and automatically eats low carbs, is that a sign of bad health? I do not really like pure carbs that much compared to dairy/meat products.

And I'm naturally thickly veined, does that make me nitric oxide dominant and how do I know it is CO2 based or not.
That, eating several hundred grams of starch every day is tiring, sugar is sickening.
The sources of fat (meat, avocado, nuts, whole milk) are very satisfying and high in calories, just for that I would like to switch to a high fat diet, but it seems to be a problem.
 

DDRB

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Restricting carbs has a diuretic effect. That does not mean it makes one look androgenic, maybe more defined, with visible veins, which people may or may not find attractive. Bodybuilders go into carb-restricting mode a few days before competition to get the defined look for the crowd and judges. However, even they admit this is not really healthy and can lead to kidney issues (among others) if done for too long.
can more potassium reduce water retention? (as opposed to sodium)
 

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