Advice Needed On Diet

Brasica

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Hi everyone

I am at a point with my diet/life where I really need some advice.

I had the classic pizza pasta pufa upbringing which led to acne, anxiety, migraines, MPB, 'IBS' by the age of 19.

Went low carb (and accidentally low cal) vegan for 9 months, honestly relieved all of the symptoms I had but they were replaced with: BMI of 16.5, depression, poor sleep, zero libido, cold extremities, heartrate ~45 and general low energy. I had stopped my hair loss and acne though so the trade off seemed worth it.

I then came across Danny Roddy in hope of reaching normality, implemented his standard diet recommendations slowly but both dairy and the fruit brought back my acne, anxiety and hair loss. Also due to my screwed up digestion from veganism I was super bloated all the time.

Stopped Peat and desperately went through all other diets over the next year (fruitarian, Paleo etc) but could only fluctuate between those two previous sets of symptoms.

I have for the last 6 months been approaching food in the proper Peat style and have ended up with unconventional Peat foods. My issue now is I am choosing between a diet which makes me mentally healthier but causes acne, hair loss, sinus congestion vs diet that causes low mood, low energy low temp etc.

My real problem is that I am using my hair loss as a marker for health, but the diet that stops hair loss for me consists of fatty fish, vegetables, some nuts and offal. I feel so much better mentally & physically when I add carbs like potatoes but neither my hair nor my skin agree.

When I eat carbs I am insatiably hungry throughout the day whereas when I eat high fat I only need to eat twice a day.

I'd really appreciate any insights & suggestions you guys might have. My sugar metabolism is awful and i clearly have a problem with inflammation.

Thanks a lot, sorry for the long post.


Other relevant info:

possible hypothyroid - thinning outer 3rd eyebrows etc etc
sedentary
nordic descent

general symptoms i can't get rid of:

Bags under eyes
eyebrow loss
high stress
bruxism
unstable mood

Food log:

-Coffee & chocolate = thin out my eyebrows hugely
-Coffee = gives me a high then a crash, if i drink too much i struggle to get out of bed the next day
-grains & dairy = the worst hair loss & acne
-fruit & potatoes = less extreme but still hair loss & acne
-grains = no constipation
fruit juice & milk = anxiety & all round inflammation
-nuts & meat = constipation
-lean meats & fish = digestive pain

temp & pulse while vegan = ~35.5C & ~45(at night dropping into the 30s)
temp & pule while eating peat foods = ~36.5 & ~72(at night dropping into the 60s) - felt like i was running on cortisol
 
D

Derek

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I would stop trying to do diets. They are all imbalanced in some way. Fruitarian - high carb, low protein and fat; Paleo - high protein and fat, low carb. Do you see my point here? You need a balanced diet of all the macros. Every diet that you have tried above excludes at least one macro nutrient. Except for the SAD that you started with!

You may actually have to make a decision on whether you want to feel healthy and have thinning hair or thick hair and unhealthy. You may not be able to have both?

You said your sugar metabolism is awful, do you mean just simple sugars or all carbs/starches?

In your food log you mention all these foods bothering you, if something isn't agreeing with you than don't eat it. You have to try and find some things that agree with you and just concentrate on those. If all that you can tolerate is white rice, potatoes and beef. Than just eat those three things and nothing else until you start to heal.

Also, you need to listen to your body. What foods do you actually want to eat? Forgetting all you know about nutrition, just think of what foods you really want and would enjoy. That might help you to start healing also, especially on the psychological side.
 

welshwing

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Hairloss is not as bad as you think. Though women are attracted to good looking men, not so much their hairstyle. You probably have high DHT, the main cause of hairloss, you're either a mesomorph or endomorph because ecto's don't normally lose hair, their serum T is very high and I suspect the vegan diet is best for this. though Ray Peat's diet is optimal, I'm sure it can prevent hairloss too.

Idk how old you are but at 17 I tried a low carb diet and felt fine, except some of my health was bad like teeth (I was raised on milk, taking it away and adding grains made me get cavities) and I felt cold and unsatisfied with meals. I'm more concerned for your general health, this much variety of food should cause you such problems. Especially anxiety, bruxism and eye bags. stop putting pressure on your mandible and put it on your tongue.
 

welshwing

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Danny Roddy's book, Hair Like a Fox, is a book about hair loss. This book is based on the research by Ray Peat. The book goes over some of the hormones associated with balding, including cortisol, adrenaline, estrogen, serotonin and prolactin. Animal experiments have shown that cortisol and prolactin induces hair loss. Some anti-depressants and anti-psychotics could cause hair loss because they raise serotonin. Insufficient protein and low thyroid function could also cause hair loss.
 

DaveFoster

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welshwing said:
post 108202 Danny Roddy's book, Hair Like a Fox, is a book about hair loss. This book is based on the research by Ray Peat. The book goes over some of the hormones associated with balding, including cortisol, adrenaline, estrogen, serotonin and prolactin. Animal experiments have shown that cortisol and prolactin induces hair loss. Some anti-depressants and anti-psychotics could cause hair loss because they raise serotonin. Insufficient protein and low thyroid function could also cause hair loss.
+1 Definitely try to lower these hormones, especially estrogen and prolactin. Cortisol and adrenaline will likely go down as you eat more and more frequently, improve thyroid function, and balance blood sugar.
 
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Nicholas

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your sugar metabolism is awful not because of carbohydrates, but because you haven't yet figured out how to combine your macros per meal. This, along with food frequency and the amount of calories per meal are the primary building blocks of regulating blood sugar. A certain food can be "inflammatory" if it's not balanced correctly....so you need to throw a lot of what you've concluded out the window and begin looking at food ratios, frequency first. Then you can have a better handle on what is truly causing inflammation. If someone is carb/protein/fat deprived and not eating the right amount at the right times, the system will not tolerate anything and give all kinds of mixed signals. Unfortunately, it's often a kind of painstaking process - but if you actually go through the process you get through it. Food logging will be very helpful in this situation. And yes, as hard as it may be, you may have to temporarily not use acne or hair as a marker of health until you've worked through some foundational principles....and when you have established the foundation that works for you, blood sugar should begin regulating, inflammation should begin decreasing, etc.....and skin and hair should begin improving. I don't believe you have to trade certain benefits of health for others. The trick is to accept that the state you are in may not *appear* like things are really getting better.....but underneath it all you know that the groundwork is being laid which will eventually (being dictated by the cell) begin to show skin-deep markers of health.

and just from the information you've provided, it seems you're pretty protein deficient. Everyone's macro ratios are usually different....but the most commonly addressed ratios around here are usually higher carb (50-70%), enough protein (20-30%), and lower fat (10-20%). But, of course, it's a matter of experimentation - not only in the ratio but also in the carb types/variety, protein types/variety, and fat types/variety.
 

Giraffe

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:welcome to the forum, Dexter.

I have not seen broth, gelatin and coconut oil in your list. These are all anti-inflammatory. Have you tried those?

dexter said:
post 108188 fruit juice & milk = anxiety & all round inflammation
Could it be that it is too much liquid for you? How are you doing with cheese, apple sauce etc?

dexter said:
post 108188 -lean meats & fish = digestive pain
Some find raw fish/meat (sushi, raw ground beef) easier to digest than cooked one. Adding a little gelatin also might help.

Nicholas said:
post 108229 Food logging will be very helpful in this situation.
:1 It will make it easier for you to find out which foods / food combinations agree with you. I suspect that you will find out that you are not eating enough / too little protein in the first place.

Derek said:
post 108190 Also, you need to listen to your body. What foods do you actually want to eat? Forgetting all you know about nutrition, just think of what foods you really want and would enjoy. That might help you to start healing also, especially on the psychological side.
:1 Dexter, are there any foods you crave?
 
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Brasica

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Thanks a lot for the replies everyone.

[ref]Derek[/ref], Good point about the dieting. Seems that way about hair sadly. All carbs (fruits,starches) make me feel really lethargic. When I think of foods I really want to eat it's things like pb&j sandwiches, pork pies, cream cakes etc etc but I don't want to go eating that stuff.... I have been under eating for a good year or so and they are very calorie dense foods actually - so thanks for bringing that to my attention!



[ref]welshwing[/ref], Yeah Danny is the person who introduced me to Peat's work and got me looking at health through the metabolic scope. Really liked his book but just couldn't seem to apply the theory to my diet (not enough experimentation i guess).



[ref]DaveFoster[/ref], What's the first step you suggest I should take to balance out my blood sugar? This seems to be my biggest problem as I feel fine for maybe an hour and a half after eating carbs, but at the 2 hour or so mark I can feel that I am in a stressed state - which I am guessing is my blood sugar dropping too low.



[ref]Nicholas[/ref], Interesting, thanks. I'll trial different combinations of macros then. Would you recommend just consuming a lot more food? I am 21 6ft male and typically eat ~1900kcal. I don't exercise fyi.



[ref=#009999]Giraffe[/ref], Thanks Giraffe! I cook with coconut oil, but haven't really given broths or gelatin enough of a chance really. I cooked up a gelatinous hunk of meat at the weekend and ate it with potatoes and I did really well off the meal actually! liquids-wise when I drink a lot of fluids my extremes go cold so good point. Cheese bloats me out and creates a lot of mucus sadly - why might this be? The foods I crave are cream cakes, pork pies, sausage rolls and things like that and I really can't imagine that these things are going to help me out health wise haha.


Can anyone speculate why I can't seem to drink coffee? It seems to reliably throw me into a stressed state, and makes my eyebrow hair fall out suggesting thyroid. I take it with honey and a tspn of coconut oil.

I also have an ongoing struggle with constipation (not consistent for the last year) which I am beginning to get worried about. I can only reliably alleviate it with oatmeal, although I havent eaten this for months. Could it be daily egg consumption? Any suggestions to this would be great.

Dex
 

tara

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:welcome Dexter
Some of my opinions interjected. below. :)

dexter said:
post 108841 All carbs (fruits,starches) make me feel really lethargic.
One possible explanation is that the carbs lowered your stress hormones so you relaxed, which can feel like lethargy if you are tired and have been running on stress hormones. Maybe you need more sleep?

dexter said:
post 108841 DaveFoster, What's the first step you suggest I should take to balance out my blood sugar? This seems to be my biggest problem as I feel fine for maybe an hour and a half after eating carbs, but at the 2 hour or so mark I can feel that I am in a stressed state - which I am guessing is my blood sugar dropping too low.
Eat again before you get too hungry stressed. At least every two hours?

dexter said:
post 108841 Nicholas, Interesting, thanks. I'll trial different combinations of macros then. Would you recommend just consuming a lot more food? I am 21 6ft male and typically eat ~1900kcal. I don't exercise fyi.
More food. By at least 1000-1500 cals, more if you get hungry for more. Maybe increase gradually over a couple of weeks rather than all in one go.

dexter said:
post 108841 I cooked up a gelatinous hunk of meat at the weekend and ate it with potatoes and I did really well off the meal actually!
:)
dexter said:
post 108841 liquids-wise when I drink a lot of fluids my extremes go cold so good point.

Smaller drinks more often may work better. And only drink if thirsty.

dexter said:
post 108841 Cheese bloats me out and creates a lot of mucus sadly - why might this be?
Possibly depleted digestive system is not up to speed with digesting it well. Could try other kinds. If it's aged cheese, histamine might be one possible culprit.

dexter said:
post 108841 The foods I crave are cream cakes, pork pies, sausage rolls and things like that and I really can't imagine that these things are going to help me out health wise haha.
They may not be perfect optimal foods, but when you are starving they are probably a lot better than nothing.
Maybe there are some lower PUFA variants that would satisfy these desires? You can put cream in other things than buns (icecream, on top of jelly, I add a little to soups and fruit salad). Hearty meaty stews with potatoes. If you really want pies, you can get/make pastry with butter, and put your own stew in it. I think the most important things to limit while getting your food intake up are probably PUFA and anything strongly allergic or irritating.

dexter said:
post 108841 Can anyone speculate why I can't seem to drink coffee? It seems to reliably throw me into a stressed state, and makes my eyebrow hair fall out suggesting thyroid.
Too much stimulation, not enough fuel? I have trouble with more than a little coffee, too. Just try a little, and increase gradually if it seems OK. You may find it works better when you eat enough. Some people can drink several strong cups a day, but I'm only having half a cup of decaf at the moment (and I'm not starving - there can be other factors at play too).

Gastroparesis and slowed gut transit are normal effects of severe under-eating. It may improve within a couple of weeks when you eat enough. There may also be some inflammation slowing things down - some foods aggravate it more for some people, but I'm not strong on the details, and it varies from person to person. Some of us use aged cascara sagrada to improve transit and reduce gut inflammation.
 
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Brasica

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thanks for all the suggestions tara. Here's an update:

I read Peat's article on salt and consequently began adding loads of sea salt to all of my food and MY GOD. Can tolerate carbs so well, back acne that i've had since i was 16 reduced to a couple of pimples and my hair doesn't get greasy even after a few days without washing.

This could also be attributed to pouring olive oil onto most of my meals though, as I started doing this at the same time as the salting.

Anyone offer an explanation? How could salt be balancing my hormones like this?

I think once my back completely clears up I'll try to slowly incorporate dairy :)
 

jet9

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thanks for all the suggestions tara. Here's an update:

I read Peat's article on salt and consequently began adding loads of sea salt to all of my food and MY GOD. Can tolerate carbs so well, back acne that i've had since i was 16 reduced to a couple of pimples and my hair doesn't get greasy even after a few days without washing.

This could also be attributed to pouring olive oil onto most of my meals though, as I started doing this at the same time as the salting.

Anyone offer an explanation? How could salt be balancing my hormones like this?

I think once my back completely clears up I'll try to slowly incorporate dairy :)
Dex hi, i know it's super old post of yours :) but did you figure out what helped with your carb tolerance? was it salt or olive oil?
 
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Brasica

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Hi jet

Yes this was a while ago! Reading this back my thinking was all over the place and there certainly wasn't a single ingredient that helped as my post suggests - even less likely over such a short time frame. It was most likely placebo/confirmation bias.

All I can say is that gradually over a long period of incorporating Peat's ideas I became less and less affected by high carb meals naturally. Largely I think the reason for my body's poor sugar metabolism at this time was severe under-eating. I've put on 20kg of (mostly :eyes:) healthy weight since then which can attest to that.

I'd say the main thing that helped me with my carb tolerance was consuming far more calories per day (in the 3-4000 range). Sorry I don't have a smoking gun answer for you!
 

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