6 years into Peating, things starting to fall into place

[Phaedrus]

First, a bit of background: I discovered Ray Peat through Danny Roddy’s work probably around 2015. By this time I’d been doing paleo and low-carb with intermittent fasting and intense weight training for about 3 years. I was eating a ton of whey protein, fish oil, and lots of fish and nuts. I was also consuming way too much alcohol, telling myself the wine and whiskey was heart healthy with all the antioxidants and polyphenols. But when not working out I was tired and cold all the time, had near constant feelings of stress and anxiety, and my hair was falling out like crazy. That’s how I came across Danny and Ray’s ideas about hair health. It took me a couple years of reading Peat’s articles and listening to his YouTube clips to start to buy in and abandon my sacred cows, for example sugar being bad and omega 3s being good.

Luckily with my paleo ideas (Mark Sisson was my guy), I was at least already a big fan of coffee and coconut oil and things like organ meat and oysters, but I really started implementing a lot of Peat’s ideas in 2017 - eating more fruit/sugar/carbs, cutting out PUFA, cutting back booze, drinking more milk, stopping the intermittent fasting (also eating more frequently throughout the day), getting red light exposure, taking aspirin and niacinamide, and reducing my intense weight lifting.

Like a lot of early Peat folks, I felt good making these changes - increased body temperature and heart rate, better sleep, better energy. I also lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol. But I also gained a ton of weight - probably around 30 pounds over a two year period. I knew this part was expected, but it did give me doubts, thinking that perhaps I should go back to my old intermittent fasting ways. My sleep was also better than before, but not consistent. I would still deal with occasional days where I was depressed or had no energy. Last, my hair shedding was still a problem.

So what’s gotten me dialed in within the last year to lose 15 of the 30lbs I gained, stop my hair shedding, sleep better, and feel generally awesome most of the time?

• Cutting down on alcohol: yes, even after adopting Peat’s ideas, I still let myself drink, a habit which increased after the Covid-19 pandemic. I still have a drink a couple nights a week, but I make sure it’s tequila, vodka, or gin with some kind of sugar, e.g fruit juice, Coke, or ginger ale. Beer, especially hoppy craft beer, makes me feel awful. While I don’t think alcohol has given me any benefits, cutting back has.
• Some exercise is better for me than being totally sedentary: I do light/moderate weight lifting about 2-3 days a week for maybe 15 or 20 minutes
• Benadryl or cyproheptadine a couple nights a week, as needed: If I’m feeling like I need sometime to calm me for sleep (e.g. the Sunday scaries), these work great for me, but I avoid using them on consecutive nights if possible.
• Calcium: I thought I was getting enough from milk and cheese, but when I started supplementing daily eggshell calcium the weight loss increased and I do believe I felt better overall.
• Vitamins A/D/K: I started doubling my winter intake of Vitamin D to 10,000 iu, taking Vitamin A more regularly (I had previously avoided it over toxicity concerns), and scaling up my K2 intake whenever using aspirin, which is about 4-5 days a week.
• Thyroid: I take Haidut’s TyroMix (t4/t3 combo) in the morning with some NDT and then small amounts of t3 throughout the day (about 3mcg) - this year, I’ve increased my thyroid usage, especially during winter, and it’s made a huge difference.
• To deal with hair shedding, I gave myself a buzz cut: not quite shaved, but short enough that it allowed me to apply topicals like caffeine and progesterone much easier and cleaner. Hair thickness has improved noticeably, but I also found that when my hair was this short and I could no longer hide the thinning, it inadvertently all but stopped my frequent ruminating about my hair loss. This has helped my life outlook immensely.
• Addressing general stress or low energy: if I’m not feeling that pep in my step that’s started to feel normal, I will take some B vitamins and thyroid with some caffeine and sugar (maybe a Red Bull these days). Sometimes a pregnenalone and DHEA combo. If I’m still not feeling great, I’ll also take an aspirin. It’s rare that a stack like this doesn’t make me feel good.
• Addressing high stress (e.g. adrenaline) or anxiety: all of the above mentioned, but also throw in cyproheptadine, progesterone, and maybe some l-theanine.

The most important concept I figured out in these last two bullets is to not let stress cascade, to nip it in the bud as quickly as possible. One of the most important things I learned from Ray is to trust my experience, intuition, and senses. It’s okay to think of these pro-metabolic substances as crutches that we should absolutely use whenever we feel we need them. We live in imperfect environments, so our interventions should be commensurate with the level of cumulative stress to which we are exposed.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I discovered Ray Peat through Danny Roddy’s work probably around 2015, but it took me a couple years of reading Peat’s articles and listening to his YouTube clips to start to buy in. By this time I’d been doing non-strict paleo and low-carb with intermittent fasting and intense weight training for about 3 years. Ironically, I was also consuming way too much alcoholic, telling myself the wine and whiskey was heart healthy with all the antioxidants and polyphenols.

Luckily with my paleo ideas (Mark Sisson was my guy), I was at least already a big fan of coffee and coconut oil and the occasional organ meat, but I really started implementing a lot of Peat’s ideas early in 2017 - eating more fruit/sugar/carbs, cutting out PUFA, cutting back booze, drinking more milk, stopping the intermittent fasting, and reducing my intense weight lifting.

Your story sounds a lot like mine, except for the intense weight training, intermittent fasting and liver. I have been at it about 6 years too and this year is finally my healthiest.

 

[sunny]

Thats awesome. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Phaedrus]

Your story sounds a lot like mine, except for the intense weight training, intermittent fasting and liver. I have been at it about 6 years too and this year is finally my healthiest.

Great to hear things are going well for you too! Yes it feels incredibly validating to feel all the changes making such a dramatic impact. One other factor we might credit with seeing next-level progress 6 years in, is that I remember Peat saying that PUFA depletion can take 4+ years. I might finally be at that point where my body’s more adequately dealing my PUFA stores.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Great to hear things are going well for you too! Yes it feels incredibly validating to feel all the changes making such a dramatic impact. One other factor we might credit with seeing next-level progress 6 years in, is that I remember Peat saying that PUFA depletion can take 4+ years. I might finally be at that point where my body’s more adequately dealing my PUFA stores.

My body got rid of my PUFA stores years ago, and my skin stopped burning in the sun, without sunscreen. I was really strict right away when I first started “Peating”, adding in the liver and avoided the PUFA’s, but I had so many other things I ignored, like high calcium, and was still high on meat and suppliments, and didn’t give up the alcohol, and many other stubborn or ignorant things that I eventually paid attention to. I still had issues to tackle too like fluctuating weight gain and sleep issues this year from added stress. What I like is that in rereading Dr. Peat’s articles I learn so many things that I missed reading the first time. I never get bored “Peating” that’s for sure.

 

[Phaedrus]

My body got rid of my PUFA stores years ago, and my skin stopped burning in the sun, without sunscreen. I was really strict right away when I first started “Peating”, adding in the liver and avoided the PUFA’s, but I had so many other things I ignored, like high calcium, and was still high on meat and suppliments, and didn’t give up the alcohol, and many other stubborn or ignorant things that I eventually paid attention to. I still had issues to tackle too like fluctuating weight gain and sleep issues this year from added stress. What I like is that in rereading Dr. Peat’s articles I learn so many things that I missed reading the first time. I never get bored “Peating” that’s for sure.

Yep, the Blake quote about experimentation being the source of true knowledge has definitely rung true for me! I’m always tweaking and experimenting. I don’t anticipate that will ever stop.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Yep, the Blake quote about experimentation being the source of true knowledge has definitely rung true for me! I’m always tweaking and experimenting. I don’t anticipate that will ever stop.

Me too! Many of my threads are about my experimenting, and previous experiences. I think too many people criticize Ray Peat’s work when it doesn’t give them immediate rewards. Depleting PUFA’s can be a “it gets worse before it gets better situation” and patience pays off here. As they say, “Good things come to those who wait”.

 

[stoic]

Thank you for this encouraging thread.

Peating can be difficult at first, as it takes time for the body to show improvement.

Finding the right balance between experimentation and consistency is key, I think.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Thank you for this encouraging thread.

Peating can be difficult at first, as it takes time for the body to show improvement.

Finding the right balance between experimentation and consistency is key, I think.

Exactly, experimentation, consistency AND determination and patience.

 

[Rafe]

This exactly.

It took me around 7 yrs to get to where I wanted to be as a baseline. High temps, resilience to stress, an inventory of techniques to use & how to use them.

Paradoxically, but maybe not, it became less about anything Peat & more about how Peat’s advice became my own. It just became my regular life, not a weird menu or things I had to convince people of.

It’s just me now. And when something needs an adjustment I have some options & I try them. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. I get fewer out & out backfires now.

But it’s also kinda weird to take it in as mainly my own. It’s just me that perceives, thinks about what can be done, & then does it, then all over again. It’s all my own evaluations & decisions. It’s all on me. And that’s how I see Peating now.

The most important concept I figured out in these last two bullets is to not let stress cascade, to nip it in the bud as quickly as possible.

I think I should be anticipating a lot of developments & shutting them down even before they can develop. Like the effects of shortened days in fall.

But I still usually wait until a symptom or something develops.

Next step in the coming year for me is preventing stress I can easily anticipate.

That baseline is totally doable. It’s hard to convince people that the basics like eating regularly, chewing your food, keeping calcium twice phosphorus, going to bed early, seeking interesting things, some bright light, some worthwhile socializing, choosing things you love, are so necessary to keep to.

A lot of it has been just time-in-practice.

Bravo on getting that baseline down, Phaedrus. Both the easiest & the hardest thing to do.

 

[Rafe]

Also, take almost no supplements anymore. Even thyroid has mixed effects.

At some point everything just went much better when I dropped all supplements.

Occasionally I’ll use tiny amounts of thiamin, or doxycycline, or acetazolamide, or progest-e. But tiny, & only for a couple of days at a time. That’s all it takes now.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

.

Also, take almost no supplements anymore. Even thyroid has mixed effects.

At some point everything just went much better when I dropped all supplements.

Occasionally I’ll use tiny amounts of thiamin, or doxycycline, or acetazolamide, or progest-e. But tiny, & only for a couple of days at a time. That’s all it takes now.

Not needing daily supplements is a good sign that you have dialed things in and are getting what you need from your diet and surroundings. I think when one gets to a cleaner place, and the muddy water clears, our bodies can sense when there is a shift in the wrong direction or when it appreciates something. Throwing something in a murky self and crossing fingers is a frustrating place to be in.

 

[Phaedrus]

Also, take almost no supplements anymore. Even thyroid has mixed effects.

At some point everything just went much better when I dropped all supplements.

Occasionally I’ll use tiny amounts of thiamin, or doxycycline, or acetazolamide, or progest-e. But tiny, & only for a couple of days at a time. That’s all it takes now.

Yes, although I do keep a lot of supplements on hand, with the exception of thyroid, eggshell calcium, and vitamins ADK, I don’t use most of those other supplements I mentioned on a daily basis. Only to counteract stress as needed. Even thyroid and vitamin D I am able to reduce significantly to almost zero in the summer months. But I live in the upper Midwest of the US where winters are long, so things like thyroid and vitamin D are crucial for me to avoid winter sickness.

 

[AmandaWald]

First, a bit of background: I discovered Ray Peat through Danny Roddy’s work probably around 2015. By this time I’d been doing paleo and low-carb with intermittent fasting and intense weight training for about 3 years. I was eating a ton of whey protein, fish oil, and lots of fish and nuts. I was also consuming way too much alcohol, telling myself the wine and whiskey was heart healthy with all the antioxidants and polyphenols. But when not working out I was tired and cold all the time, had near constant feelings of stress and anxiety, and my hair was falling out like crazy. That’s how I came across Danny and Ray’s ideas about hair health. It took me a couple years of reading Peat’s articles and listening to his YouTube clips to start to buy in and abandon my sacred cows, for example sugar being bad and omega 3s being good.

Luckily with my paleo ideas (Mark Sisson was my guy), I was at least already a big fan of coffee and coconut oil and things like organ meat and oysters, but I really started implementing a lot of Peat’s ideas in 2017 - eating more fruit/sugar/carbs, cutting out PUFA, cutting back booze, drinking more milk, stopping the intermittent fasting (also eating more frequently throughout the day), getting red light exposure, taking aspirin and niacinamide, and reducing my intense weight lifting.

Like a lot of early Peat folks, I felt good making these changes - increased body temperature and heart rate, better sleep, better energy. I also lowered my blood pressure and cholesterol. But I also gained a ton of weight - probably around 30 pounds over a two year period. I knew this part was expected, but it did give me doubts, thinking that perhaps I should go back to my old intermittent fasting ways. My sleep was also better than before, but not consistent. I would still deal with occasional days where I was depressed or had no energy. Last, my hair shedding was still a problem.

So what’s gotten me dialed in within the last year to lose 15 of the 30lbs I gained, stop my hair shedding, sleep better, and feel generally awesome most of the time?

• Cutting down on alcohol: yes, even after adopting Peat’s ideas, I still let myself drink, a habit which increased after the Covid-19 pandemic. I still have a drink a couple nights a week, but I make sure it’s tequila, vodka, or gin with some kind of sugar, e.g fruit juice, Coke, or ginger ale. Beer, especially hoppy craft beer, makes me feel awful. While I don’t think alcohol has given me any benefits, cutting back has.
• Some exercise is better for me than being totally sedentary: I do light/moderate weight lifting about 2-3 days a week for maybe 15 or 20 minutes
• Benadryl or cyproheptadine a couple nights a week, as needed: If I’m feeling like I need sometime to calm me for sleep (e.g. the Sunday scaries), these work great for me, but I avoid using them on consecutive nights if possible.
• Calcium: I thought I was getting enough from milk and cheese, but when I started supplementing daily eggshell calcium the weight loss increased and I do believe I felt better overall.
• Vitamins A/D/K: I started doubling my winter intake of Vitamin D to 10,000 iu, taking Vitamin A more regularly (I had previously avoided it over toxicity concerns), and scaling up my K2 intake whenever using aspirin, which is about 4-5 days a week.
• Thyroid: I take Haidut’s TyroMix (t4/t3 combo) in the morning with some NDT and then small amounts of t3 throughout the day (about 3mcg) - this year, I’ve increased my thyroid usage, especially during winter, and it’s made a huge difference.
• To deal with hair shedding, I gave myself a buzz cut: not quite shaved, but short enough that it allowed me to apply topicals like caffeine and progesterone much easier and cleaner. Hair thickness has improved noticeably, but I also found that when my hair was this short and I could no longer hide the thinning, it inadvertently all but stopped my frequent ruminating about my hair loss. This has helped my life outlook immensely.
• Addressing general stress or low energy: if I’m not feeling that pep in my step that’s started to feel normal, I will take some B vitamins and thyroid with some caffeine and sugar (maybe a Red Bull these days). Sometimes a pregnenalone and DHEA combo. If I’m still not feeling great, I’ll also take an aspirin. It’s rare that a stack like this doesn’t make me feel good.
• Addressing high stress (e.g. adrenaline) or anxiety: all of the above mentioned, but also throw in cyproheptadine, progesterone, and maybe some l-theanine.

The most important concept I figured out in these last two bullets is to not let stress cascade, to nip it in the bud as quickly as possible. One of the most important things I learned from Ray is to trust my experience, intuition, and senses. It’s okay to think of these pro-metabolic substances as crutches that we should absolutely use whenever we feel we need them. We live in imperfect environments, so our interventions should be commensurate with the level of cumulative stress to which we are exposed.

Love this.

These things are my main lessons from Ray Peat's work as well. Removing myself from a huge stressor in my life (my husband) was a key factor, and led to my finally being able to give up drinking beer virtually every evening.

I will take eating "bad" food over going without food every single time this happens (I avoid it as best as possible, though), because it just triggers a whole cascade of stress reactions that affect me right into the night, causing poor sleep and insomnia. So not worth it.