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My Dilemma After 5 Years Of "Peating"

Discussion in 'Diet' started by frant26, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. OP
    frant26

    frant26 Member

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    100%! That is me.

    I want to believe this time is different because it's more of a general approach: not micromanaging what I'll eat, but working on habits and focusing on journaling (recording and experimenting) and later reviewing. The plan is there to be accountable. Thanks for your comment!
     
  2. OP
    frant26

    frant26 Member

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    I also agree. I've been doing a lot of "playful" stuff this year. I do some mix of calisthenics/gymnastics, some animal locomotion out in the park (plus I get sunlight and grounding), a lot of it influenced by Ido Portal. In classes we do a lot of games in couples, play with footballs, juggling, etc.

    But by far the best thing was signing up for Improv classes. Such a playful atmosphere, feeling like a child and laughing for hours straight. Amazing.

    I go out at night very often but I very rarely drink. My favorite drink is ginless gin-tonic, with lemon.
     
  3. CoolTweetPete

    CoolTweetPete Member

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    Yes! I did improv before I discovered Dr. Peat. During this time I was a stressed out mess so I wasn't very good at it, but I sensed the benefit. I am excited to take another class soon. Improv is really the epitome of using your self guidance and being very present. I often times practice freestyle rapping to a beat while I'm driving. There is nothing more satisfying to me than making things rhyme and make sense on the spot.

    Not drinking while going out used to be a challenge for me, but I have noticed I am much more charismatic and myself when I'm sober. This drives me to maintain my sobriety. Good stuff!
     
  4. Peatogenic

    Peatogenic Member

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    Maybe creating your own diet and not following a diet dogma? Doing things your way?
     
  5. Energizer

    Energizer Member

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    it can be difficult to raise your metabolism even with pro-metabolic foods, especially the older you are. if you're getting plenty of calories and protein, and never skimping on a daily carrot salad / bamboo shoots, liver and shellfish (extremely important for optimal health, imo), and getting around 2000mg of calcium per day, it's hard to find anything wrong with the foods you've listed that you eat. maybe you could email Peat your situation and he might have an idea why you're having trouble raising your cholesterol.

    i don't think poatoes are optimal foods due to the high starch content, though they are nutrient dense, if you're having any sort of digestive issues, any starch can worsen the issue. i'm not saying potatoes are problematic for everyone but it could be a possibility in your case. you say sometimes the carrot salad with coconut oil, i'd eat that daily, you want the daily antiseptic antiestrogen effect. do you get a lot of sun? that is also important, i imagine you do in sunny Mexico City but you never know.
     
  6. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    I never got to five years, but I got to around 3 I think being pretty strict Peat. Had the same issues as you. Became more sensitive to things, gained weight, etc etc.

    At around the two year mark, I started getting a bit skeptical of some of Peat's recommendations because I was not losing weight, my metabolism seemed to be getting worse, and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called immortality (well...let's say semi immortality) was nowhere to be found. Here is what I learned, Peat is all theory and if you follow theory in health, or just in life in general, you are going to miss something crucial. You might not know what that exactly is.

    A certain type of people, myself included, fall in love with a nice complete theory, and Peat's is elegant. But theory, like Marxism, has a terrible track record. Most advances you, or humanity in general, make, are going to come from tinkering and trial and error. The theory that you have installed in your brain called "Peat" is going to block any realizations you get from this tinkering because it won't fit inside the model. Don't get me wrong, Peat has some great stuff on PUFA and thyroid. Don't toss it all away. But if you want to dig yourself out of this hole of weight gain (and you will keep gaining), you need to drop the theory and start focusing on what works and what doesn't.

    What can you take immediately that will solve some of your issues, but may be outside the Peat theory? What do you take now that you know in your head is good for you, but which doesn't feel good to take?

    I dropped Coffee, Aspirin, B3, Carrot Salad, Milk, OJ, Gelatin...man the list goes on and on. What I kept? Avoiding PUFA and gums, and sugar ain't the devil.
     
  7. OP
    frant26

    frant26 Member

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    Good idea. I'm trying a few different things, like drinking more OJ and an extra egg yolk for choline. I will get labs again and e-mail Dr. Peat, because I don't have any obvious infections, I barely eat starch, I've been eating tons of sugar, and my digestion is relatively okay. Liver enzymes have gone up over time eating these foods. But cholesterol remained exactly the same (around 140 pre-Peat, and now).

    I eat liver, shellfish (including oysters), and get a LOT of sun.

    My diet is not 100% perfect, but even at 80% I should be seeing improvements. Based on experience, there were times where diet was 100% Peat approved, I had a huge light setup at home – still was feeling miserable. Other times I went on holiday, ate like 50% these foods and felt like a million bucks. Digestion was perfect after eating pizza and beer. That's why I think light and environment, friends, activities, maybe distance from EMF, are somewhat more important than food.

    Well cooked potatoes never upset my digestion. Coffee and/or milk sometimes does. My work right now is becoming more aware of my own body, especially digestion.
     
  8. OP
    frant26

    frant26 Member

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    LOL. Wise words my friend. I appreciate the quality of insights in this community.

    What you say is exactly what I got out of this thread: become more aware. As I said before "the true method of knowledge is experimentation" has many times been forgotten.

    Very interesting. I'm ditching milk and white sugar for now.

    May I ask how does your diet look like these days?
     
  9. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    Right now I am doing the low vitamin A thing. So Rice, Potatoes, Meat, and some Beans.

    But really, are you taking anything right now that you know in your head is good for you, but which you are struggling to take/doesn't make you feel right?
     
  10. OP
    frant26

    frant26 Member

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    My problem is lack of awareness so I might be eating foods that are only good on paper – but I have no idea if they are causing me digestive or other issues.

    The carrot salad is annoying to make every day, even if it takes 5 minutes. Coffee always gets my bowel moving but sometimes gives me a huge amount of gas (that one is indeed very obvious). I used to replace milk with "light" condensed milk (so a lot of sugar/protein, no fat) but it was too sweet. I not always enjoy milk, but sometimes I really do. K2 is something that I know should be beneficial but don't feel anything from (I take a weekly dose so not really a struggle at all).
     
  11. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    I would cut the carrot salad, your annoyance would be non-existent if you were feeling great from making it everyday. Would also cut the coffee as huge amounts of gas are not a good sign. I would only drink milk when you have a craving for it.

    You can't have a problem of lack of awareness...having that problem is contingent on not knowing you have that problem.
     
  12. OP
    frant26

    frant26 Member

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    Thanks!

    What I mean by lack of awareness could be: I am having diarrhea so I think of ways of eliminating diarrhea (could be a carrot salad, activated charcoal, an antibiotic) but I am not being aware of what is causing such diarrhea.
     
  13. sunraiser

    sunraiser Member

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    This is contrarian to the views of much of this forum but it has been an extremely important revelation to me and the tone of this thread might make it relevant. Not that my perspective is the entire truth but it has been cataclysmically important to my recovery process, so even if others decide it doesn't fit within their truth, it's important to me to share.

    Firstly, I find RP's articles interesting, especially from an observational perspective, however in practice the conclusions are flawed, to me. His guidance is based on the notion that the healthiest people have the highest metabolism, and therefore taking in nutrients at levels that those with strong metabolisms might do is a way to mimic or achieve the health that comes with it. High calcium and copper intakes, for example. Attached to this (and this is prevelant on the forum) is the idea that metabolic stimulants (such as taurine, sugar, caffeine) are raising metabolism and therefore providing a pathway to health. Finally, he mentions a prohibitive approach of avoidance of things that cause issues in a poor metabolism (such as avoiding fibres and grains), when those things aren't the root cause. They'll be well tolerated as the body recovers.

    The frustration and fatal flaw in this isn't just that it's wrong, it's that it'll actively make a sick person (and, I believe eventually a health person) worse. The reason you don't feel great is because your body is preserving minerals and limiting hormonal function that can safely be spared until a specific missing factor is in place to allow your metabolism to raise again. ANY substance that immediately makes you feel great or kicks you out of a funk is simply USING the minerals, vitamins, and mechanisms that the body had PURPOSELY shut down to make sure we don't get into a very serious hole of dysfuction.

    Ignoring your intuition and forcing the body into things it's not ready for are great ways to crash an already stalled metabolism - my crash came through overtraining, but my body was always in a bad state (periods of not being able to eat enough, long periods indoors, some very high stress for years). It's cruel in a way as the only reason I had the impetus to push so hard was because I knew I couldn't keep going if things didn't change, and the paradigm of self discipline in things that are PERCEIVED as healthy was the avenue I chose to follow. That doesn't mean self discipline isn't absolutely key to happiness, it is, but it's for things that have a tangible reward (e.g. cooking a lovely meal that you actively enjoy and know nourishes you vs eating a microwave meal) - short term increased stress for long term lowered stress. My physical training did not give me such a wellbeing reward, though it did give me a "very healthy" looking body. Fitness != health!

    Western society has warped that idea and made self punishment appear virtuous - it's also a useful means to control a population as it allows (especially in england) privileged people to forget their social responsibility. Instead of recognising their fortune and opportunity they can shift the blame onto the individual in a poor situation; ie "They're simply not working hard enough!". The idea that millions are working immensely hard just to exist is alien to a those in control as they've never lived it - it's not an idea that's perpetuated out of cruelty, merely out of narrowed perspective. It's also an easy and convenient thing to believe as it aligns with innate human greed, which needs to be checked via self reflection and philosophy (I digress!!!)

    So IN ACTUALITY a raised metabolism is an EFFECT not a CAUSE of health. It's never just one factor and there are usually lifestyle amendments alongside a robust, varied and intuitive diet including all types of fat, also fibre sources. However, there are a few common trends I've seen in people that have healed (and in times I've made great progress).

    - working outside in a job that isn't horrendously physically taxing
    - not relying on juices/sugars and stimulants in general
    - non orthorexic diet, including fibre
    - movement of some kind, only when the energy is there (jogging, bodyweight, maybe weighted if you really feel good, dance, walking etc etc).
    - allowing your body to do and receive what it's asking for via whole foods.

    In effect I think problems for a large degree of people stem from high stress combined with absence of sunlight both in the eyes and on the skin. It isn't as simple as taking vitamin D to restore "x" level in the body (been there), it's about boosting the metabolism via lifestyle and food intake so that hormones start to come back online - as hormones are deemed safe to become more active by the body then you start to have a higher ability to uptake vitamins and minerals. There seem to be links to thyroid health and magnesium, progesterone levels and calcium uptake, and I'm sure lots more.

    People are at varying stages, but from the bottom it means you must start very slowly and build. As hormonal function starts to restore and mineral metabolism improves then your world will expand to allow intuitive lifestyle adjustments, you'll crave more calories and nutrients and you'll keep moving along slowly. For example, at my worst points I found slow benefit from 150-300iu vitamin D. Higher values made me crash. I think it's attached to vitamin A and it being used in our retinas to prompt proper cortisol function - we need to be able to take in and metabolise a good, but low, D to A ratio in a day and get some light in our eyes, alongside eating enjoyable foods including all food groups to craving. I don't believe PUFA rich foods, per craving, are bad. They're only bad when the oils are reheated over and over again (which many fast food places and probably some restaurants do) - I think this degrades the vitamin E content entirely (speculation, not researched).

    Sun on skin exposure in summer is too intense if you haven't been outside in the spring - we're seasonal beings and the summer sun will likely feel bad if you havent spent some of the spring outside (alongside diet/lifestyle) and gained the metabolic boost that accompanies such changes.

    I have personally had success in the middle of winter with very low supplemental vitamin D (eating lettuce, eggs, dairy and starches to craving for vit A and K) - it just took a long while to narrow down what worked (while making myself a lot worse via trial and error). I still got light in my eyes in the morning and some later in the day, too. Full spectrum light is important - I'm unsure how important minimising blue light is but I'd certainly lower the brightness on your screen as much as is comfortable.

    I don't believe you really need to work outside all day, just go for a 15 minute walk in the morning when you feel like it and another walk about midday or in the afternoon. If you can be outside without it being aimless, then it won't do harm.

    I think the main issue, and it's a very understandable human one, is that people who have been in hell so long just want to feel ok, and in a state of poor metabolism the brain is far more likely to cede to a perceived authority that provides safety and structure alongside hope. It's very important to rebuild slowly, however. You'll feel small changes constantly but it won't be a grandiose day to day thing, more week to week and month to month.

    It has taken me quite a few months to actually get unstuck from lots of my non intuitive things, even though I thought I was away from them. When it comes to human beings correlational science, for pragmatic purposes, is quite useless and more often than not detrimental.

    E.g. - correlation - People that eat meals late at night have worse health outcomes.
    - answer - eating food earlier in the day and stop eating later at night, even if hungry.

    This doesn't mean you are healthier now. It only means eating late is just a REFLECTION of your current state. It's the best way to keep equilibrium in the body's current state, so you'll get sicker following the correlation. It doesn't mean you don't change anything, it just means something is missing (or maybe something has to be removed). I constantly see studies posted on this forum with similar correlation about various substances improving factors x and y, but the entire premise is flawed.

    Sorry this is so long. I don't actually feel like I've articulated or ordered my point very well but this will have to do for now!
     
  14. somuch4food

    somuch4food Member

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    @sunraiser :hearteyes:I have come to a similar realization recently and have started doing most everything more intuitively without sweating about "bad stuff" I eat or do. I'm just trying to progress one baby step at a time.
     
  15. Cirion

    Cirion Member

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    Great post. I agree with just about all of that. This is why I'm now rather anti-thyroid meds, anti-aspirin, anti-caffeine now. You're forcing your body to be more metabolic when it simply isn't ready for it. I still supplement, but my stack is way smaller, and I try to be sure that I actually need everything that I do supplement.

    I do think though that your current metabolism is indeed a great reflection of your current health. As long as this metabolism was achieved primarily through foods and other natural means, but that forcing this metabolism through artificial means may give you a false image of your current health as such.

    I think when people quit all stimulants (caffeine, aspirin, thyroid etc) this will give them a reality check as to the true nature of their given health. Most people addicted to stimulants will find their energy waning drastically and this is not because they "need" stimulants, its that their true metabolism is horribly depressed after so long of being abused and can finally rest.
     
  16. redsun

    redsun Member

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    This is something that struck against me so hard. I mean the over-reliance on adjusting hormones or doing things a chicken does will make you a chicken (i.e. doing things people with good metabolism do will give you good metabolism) in Ray Peat's work.

    The things that apply to every human, and everyone here trying to achieve optimal health should prioritize is leaving a naturally low stress life. As for food, high quality protein(red meats, organs) and an abundance of it I have seen is the most important. Our bodies are made of protein. Peat says the main functions of a cell is repairing its structures. The most important thing your body does on a day to day basis is not build, but repair. Protein is the most important macronutrient.
    Whether your energy comes from primarily fat or carbs or somewhere in between doesnt matter anywhere near as much as protein. Repair of every organ, metabolism in general, and things like skin health cant happen unless you have the basic building blocks.
     
  17. tara

    tara Member

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    It's not worse if it works for them.
    What you are eating is not better if it doesn't work for you.
    Better and worse diet is relative to the person and their state and needs.

    Personally, I seem to do better ATM on a diet with no dairy, moderate starch, lots of veges, some fruit, but not too much refined sucrose. Probably wouldn't work for everyone.
    When you say you eat sugar, do you mean you eat much refined mineral-deficient sucrose? Personally, I'm wary of too much of that.
    Milk and/or cheese are great for some, but don't serve everyone.
    Are you eating any vegetables? Getting much in the way of varied minerals?
    Some people do OK with wheat, if their digestion is strong - I'm not recommending it for you, but it can make sense that some people do better on bread than sucrose.

    :)
     
  18. tara

    tara Member

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    Sounds great :)
    If something tastes too sweet, that might be a good sign that you've got as much sugar in your system as it can handle at that time.
    Like Tarmander, I'd say only drink milk when it tastes good to you.
    I think it's whether you enjoy eating the carrot salad the at counts.
    This looks like a real risk to me.
    +1
    +1
    Enjoyed.
     
  19. Peatogenic

    Peatogenic Member

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    I don't see Ray Peat as a practitioner, I see him as a source of opening up consciousness. But five years ago I did the whole Peat diet that was constructed from soundbytes. Similarly, I became fat, got man boobs, bad skin, etc.

    It wasn't till I started working with Josh and Jeannie Rubin a few years ago that I really learned how to heal via blood sugar regulation. I think they were the first to really disseminate his information.

    All of the macronutrients are equally important. The body is always changing, so diet is always changing via intuition.

    Nowadays, my diet is pretty high protein, low dairy, low sugar, with starch and fruits as main carbs. A few times a week I'll eat PUFA drenched churros, etc, love butter, still allergic to coconut oil, love asparagus and occasional vegetables, and pizza of course. OJ only in the mornings. My nutrient density is very high. Gelatin and broths are too complicated, so I supplement Glycine and Proline sometimes.
     
  20. tara

    tara Member

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    +1
     
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