The Peat Diet And Diabetes. Advice Please

[Swandattur]

Gabriel, First of all I did not mean to start a debate at all. I don't think it is an insult to say doctors don't really know what causes diabetes, because I was under the impression that they themselves felt that way. Check out the bloodsugar101 site for a non Peat view of diabetes by a person with diabetes who has spent a long time researching and dealing with it. For many years I have not been able to exercise without feeling rotten. I think this is common with diabetics until they lose some weight or get their metabolic rate back up. You don't seem to get it that people in a pre diabetic state can get this unremitting hunger. I resent your insensitivity to other people's problems! I finally was able to lose weight on a low carb diet, but now I have more problems from that. Staying off starches seems to keep my blood sugar down as well as my appetite even if I eat lots of other carbs. Too bad I didn't figure this out before going low carb, because then I might be in much better shape now. If you read what Ray Peat has to say about diabetes, it is not what you are saying. From the way I read him, he says the metabolic problem happens due to polyunsaturated fats messing up glucose metabolism. I guess I need to reread those articles again in order to say more than that, but at least, I got that out of it. Peat does say starch is likely to cause weight gain. He, of course, favors non-starch carbs.

Actually, the problem that is way worse for me is depression. Ever since my last horrible year long episode of major depression I haven't been the same at all. I struggle. Doctors don't help with that at all. I guess there is nothing they can do.

You seem to have an axe to grind. Are you a doctor? Is that why you are so hypersensitive? I have looked but couldn't find where you had introduced yourself. I don't know where you're coming from.
This may not be written very well, because I only got about three hours sleep last night. Not doing very well, lately.

Peat does advice non-aerobic type exercise. As far as doctors go, I haven't been able to find one who really seems to think about healing the patient. They seem to have blinders on if your illness doesn't fit certain parameters. Maybe it is how they are trained and how the system is these days.

 

[charlie]

I find it kind of sad that everything "non-Peat" is immediately ridiculed here in this forum while there may be quite a bunch of non-Peat things that may be very helpful for some.

Have you not realized this is a Ray Peat Forum where we wish to discuss everything Ray Peat? And with all your "intelligence" you have not figured out where the "non Ray Peat" section is?

Gabriel, please keep all the "non Peat" stuff in the "non Peat" area. Thank you. That goes for the few others that have joined recently and are trying to inject their "non Peat" ideas. It's not wanted. I have extended the hand of courtesy and made a section where you can discuss other ideas not related to Peat. Please feel free to use it.

 

[Gabriel]

In that case, please delete my above answers as they are not relevant to the specific question.

I was misleadingly thinking that "Advice please." means the thread starter asked for honest advice regardless of its compatibility with "Ray Peat". The advice I wrote is honest from my heart and my brain, without any kind of prejudice or bias (apart from my bias of only having read a very small portion of the work of the whole scientific world and hence only understanding what I have read and learned so far). I totally acknowledge that due to that fact and the intotality of empirical evidence that my advice may very well be wrong. If that is the case, I apologize for giving wrong advice.

 

[Swandattur]

Just to clarify my comment about the bloodsugar101 site, I meant even though Jenny Ruhl is not a Peat follower yet, anyway, she does critical reviews of diabetes studies, and she thinks for herself. She doesn't feel people get diabetes from eating too much. She believes some types of diabetes cause overeating.

 

[charlie]

Gabriel, you left out the first sentence of the subject. "The Peat diet and Diabetes". This person was asking directly for advice with the Peat diet and diabetes. The subject was not, "The Peat diet and Diabetes along with alternative or mainstream advice."

I am not trying to butt heads with you. And I admit I was a tad bit grumpy when I wrote my prior post due to dealing with endotoxin overload from my potato expirenment but that's for another thread. I still stand by my reasoning as to this thread was about "Peat advice" and you started injecting "mainstream" advice.

This is not a debate I want to get into here and now. But I will say this. Mainstream advice just isn't cutting it these days. People are getting sicker and sicker. Doctors are treating more and more. Drug companies are getting richer and richer. People have to move to the "fringe" it would seem to wade through the web of lies and deceit that has been cast. If you don't believe it's lies or deceit. Then lets just call it bad information. When someone comes here and injects "mainstream" dogma into the Peat section it makes it harder for the Peat message to get through. And I feel, it's my priority to try and keep the "message" as clear as possible. You are more then welcome to disagree with this "message" in the "debate" section or the "non Peat" section. In fact, I highly encourage it. If people wanted mainstream advice they could ask their doctors or go to one of the million sites available for that.

This issue to me is about trying to keep the Ray Peat section as close to Ray Peat recommendations as possible. When I first started researching Peat I was on another site and the discussions would often drift away from Peat. This would annoy me much because it was a Ray Peat group that would often be talking about stuff not even relevant to Peat. I am not interested in other theories. If I was, I would be down in the non Ray Peat section or other forums/sites trying to figure it out. But I am not, I am here to learn about Ray Peat. :2cents

 

[Swandattur]

I just got over several days of feeling bad that seemed to start with a bad reaction (bloating) to the pepper in Louisiana hot sauce, pepper jelly, and bell pepper flakes in a seasoning. For some dumb reason, even though I know I can't do bell peppers, I thought those things were just fine. A bad reaction seems to set off a chain of bad reactions. I also had a fever blister outbreak as well as poor sleep for several days and just feeling not so good. Yesterday, I went to a spring to swim and enjoy nature with family and I think that really helped.

 

[Gabriel]

Charlie, thanks for clarifying and explaining the motives behind this forum and your policy of separating Peat and Non-Peat. I absolutely agree that it is important to have a forum that focuses specifically on Ray Peat's theories and ways to bring them to life without mixing that with possibly conflicting advice. I can understand how frustating it must be for you to always have to tutor all the newcomers with their biased and misinformed minds. Especially when they just burst in here and start mumbling advice that may not be well founded and reasearch. I may count myself to the latter type of people.

Maybe you should make that point clearer to potential new users? E.g. making a global announcement or some kind of pop-up or private message for every new registered member, that introduces them to your concepts and motives of thos board and encourages them to keep things separate.

You have to understand that many people find this forum during their journey to fix their own health problems. Everyone is at a different level of knowledge, some have read and experimented more. Other have read less or read the wrong (biased and misleading) stuff. You can't expect everybody in here be a 100% peat expert at the start.

I think it would be wrong and rather steer people away from Ray Peat and his theory when people are just banned, deleted or silenced when all they tried was helping somebody (even though that try may be wrong). Making a clear distinction between Peat and Non-Peat like you did is a very good compromise and should be made clearer to new users.

I think we have to sometimes remind ourselves of who Ray Peat is and what he stands for. One of his most estimable attributes is his anti-authoritative and critical way of thinking. It would be very ironic to see this board develop into a dogmatic Pro-Peat community which silences everybody who is critical and starts thinking himself, i.e. is just like Ray Peat is or was in his younger years. I don't think Peat would have wanted that.

With that in mind, I really thank you for all the work and effort you put into this forum!

 

[saul42]

It is never too late to regenerate your beta cells. Given the study below I would think that the same effort you put into breaking your body down can be aplied to fixing it. The problem is that people follow the path of destruction for 10 years and want results in less than one. If things are getting better, then you are on the right track.

Have been mostly following RP diet (and making a few of my own adjustments. for example I only use regular milk and consume all dairy products that are regular. No fat free for me. I eat a helluva lot of saturated fat but also take in a lot of coconut oil).

Bottom line increasing my sugar intake (honey, fruits, milk, etc) improved things dramatically

In roughly 3 months fasting sugar went from 290 to 114 (last reading at doctors office) and Hb1ac went from 12.9 to 6.7. Did not use a single drug.


Diabetes are prone to being depressed and the best way to deal with this is to increase your intake of sugar but it should be in the form of honey (if you can handle it. I do fine on it), milk, and lots of fruits. I have eliminated all PUFA, and all grains. Though i do eat potatoes with lots of butter and salt and eaten this way it does not cause a spike in my sugar readings. However, i introduced them slowly to my diet, started of with one potato when readings started to stabilize and then slowly added more. Potatoes are very healthy and even RP states so.


Now here is the link that shows you can grow your beta cells again by increasing sucrose intake.

A spoonful of sugar may be a remedy for diabetes. The more glucose that insulin-producing cells in the pancreas use, the faster those cells reproduce a new study in mice shows.
The findings, published in the April 6 Cell Metabolism, may help researchers devise new treatments for both type 1 and type 2 diabetes by harnessing the mechanism that leads to sugar-fueled cell growth. Such a strategy could help restore function to the cells in the pancreas damaged in diabetes while avoiding the toxic effects of high blood sugar.
Giving animals more food to eat or bathing cells with glucose—the type of sugar that cells burn for energy—can increase the amount of insulin-producing pancreatic cells known as beta cells. But exactly how the sugar increases the number of beta cells has not been clear.

http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/ ... king-cells

 

[saul42]

More data indicating sugar is good for you

Methods to heal wounds have been studied for the past four or five millennia. Surgery's earliest known document on the care of wounds is The Edwin Smith Surgical Papyrus, dated around 1700 BC, which describes the treatment of a number of difficult wounds encountered on the battlefields of Egypt.9 Since then, our knowledge of the physiology of wound healing has been elucidated, but timely and efficient wound healing has remained somewhat elusive, especially in areas where technology and modern wound care supplies are limited. However, natural resources have been used extensively for wound care with acceptable results. The use of sugar for wound healing is one of the earliest known methods. In premodern times, the idea that sugar can facilitate the healing of wounds has been documented.10,11Mesopotamians were known to wash wounds with water or milk and subsequently dress them with honey or resin. Mesopotamians also documented the severity of wounds and which conditions were optimal for facilitating the rate at which the wounds would heal. Other substances, in conjunction with sugar, such as plant derivatives, wine, and vinegar were explored and implemented to determine their efficacy in wound healing.10 In 1679, Scultetus made use of finely powdered sugar to clean wounds.12 Zoinin, in 1714, promoted the value of sugar for promoting wound
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2956799/


Fructose actually assists the body in retaining minerals such as Mg, Cu and Ca.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2729168

“The addition of fructose to glucose can markedly reduce hyperglycemia during intraportal glucose infusion by increasing net hepatic glucose uptake even when insulin secretion is compromised.” – Shiota, et al., 2005
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/co ... 2/469.full


“Caloric intake in the form of orange juice or fructose does not induce either oxidative or inflammatory stress, possibly due to its flavonoids content and might, therefore, represent a potentially safe energy source.” – Ghanim, et al. (2007) and this article also collobrates this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17384340

Diabetics are generally hypothyroid and the conversion of T4 to T3 requires glucose and when you do not have enough you start to destroy the thyroid which actually makes the diseases worse. Thus cutting sugar out is like cutting your nose to spite your face. Prevalence of hypothyroidism is quite high in type 2 DM patients above 45 years and more so if their BMI is over 25. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23565418

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Hi. I am new to this forum and new to the concepts of this diet so any advice would be very welcome.

I am 56 and have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes since 1997 and on insulin since 2003.

I lost much of my energy as a young teenager, was a skinny child, a plump teenager and have been a fat adult. Much of the weight was gained during my first pregnancy when 21 and has never gone away. Digestive issues have bugged me most of my adult life, and post carb consumption exhaustion was a big problem along with years of hypoglycaemia and Candida/fungal issues.

12 years or so of raging IBS-D (probably exacerbated by being given Byetta for the diabetes, which I am almost certain triggered chronic pancreatic insufficiency - or worse) culminated in virtually everything I ate going straight through me and my diet reduced to just a handful of different foods. After being dismissed by the Medical Profession as having 'nothing wrong' with me, left to my own devices, I picked up a link to Celiac disease, dumped the gluten and have gradually, over the last 5 years been very slowly rebuilding my health.

I recognised carbs were a big no-no for me so 3 years ago I started following a very low carb healing diet. To a certain extent it has helped - the IBS stopped within hours of dumping the gluten, gradually the raging restless legs and burning feet abated and I am no longer a walking fungus-factory, but judging by the fact that I still can't lose any weight and have been steadily regaining all the weight I lost when hardly eating, and the fact that my hair and nails - a good indicator of nutritional strength - are still very thin and weak, and my body seems to be getting ever less sensitive to the insulin suggests that this may be as far as I can go with this.

I have introduced a lot more (cooked) green veg and that seems to be helping my digestion, but I am not sure where to go from here. I recognise that my issues are still nutritional, and my diet is still, and has been for the last 5 years very natural and unprocessed, but it still feels as though something is missing. I have only been eating CO and butter for fats with a little lard here and there, very little sugar, no fruit, plenty of eggs, fish and meat/poultry. In recent times I have reintroduced dairy and I do sometimes have a little potato or rice with my meal. I do have a bit of a weakness for pistachios and very bitter chocolate, probably because of 'deprivation' issues, and both are probably somewhat counter-productive.

I was intrigued to read about diabetes being cured by eating lots of sugar! Whilst I can see that adding in fruit, and other highly nutritious sources of sugar ought to be beneficial, I am somewhat scared to do that. Any advice on this would be very gratefully received. And any personal experiences on this would be fantastic too.

Ali

William Budd (1811-1880) had his diabetes patients take as much as 8 ounces of sugar a day along with 4 ounces of honey. "Cure" is a loaded word, but Dr. Budd achieved remission of symptoms. Claude Bernard (1813-1878) gave diabetes to every laboratory dog he smashed over the head with a hammer. (According to Ray Peat, "Doctors don't read the old textbooks.")

 

[smith]

William Budd (1811-1880) had his diabetes patients take as much as 8 ounces of sugar a day along with 4 ounces of honey. "Cure" is a loaded word, but Dr. Budd achieved remission of symptoms. Claude Bernard (1813-1878) gave diabetes to every laboratory dog he smashed over the head with a hammer. (According to Ray Peat, "Doctors don't read the old textbooks.")

Which TYPE? 1 or 2?

 

[Capt Nirvana]

Which TYPE? 1 or 2?

Unfortunately, the distinction between the two was allegedly not made till January 1936, about 100 years after William Budd was treating one of those two. (Dr. Peat doesn't even regard type 2 diabetes as diabetes.)