Peat Diet - Blood Sugar Regulation

[artemis]

Diabetes is caused by excess fat. Maybe you were eating too much fat?

I don't think it's that simple. No, I'm pretty sure I wasn't eating too much fat, and what fat I was eating was saturated. But I only started eating this way in November, so there's probably still a lot of PUFA's floating around.

maybe something has shifted your body over to more fat oxidation?

Yes, I'm thinking that period of overwork I mentioned might have had something to do with it.

I've started to realize I come across as a bit judgy/confrontational in my posts... that's not my intention! I just like discussing this stuff. Maybe I'll start using more emoticons

HaHa! No, I've never thought your posts came across that way at all. No need for emoticons! You just seem like
a really smart guy. I appreciate your input.

...if you confuse all FFA together then your only treatment available becomes an attempt to low dietary fat & experiments with glucose metabolism cofactors like B vitamins and drugs like aspirin in the hope that glucose oxidation resumes. Good luck if it doesn't.

How cryptic. I was scared sh*tless, now I'm scared blind AND sh*tless.

Finally got a blood glucose monitor that works. All the readings so far have been in the 400's. Geez, this is really f**king serious. No one in my family has ever had diabetes. I don't know anything about it. But apparently I have it. I'm kind of freaked out right now. When I google those numbers, it says I should go to the emergency room! I don't want to do that. Need to get blood work done. I emailed Ray today to ask for his help, at least in terms of getting and evaluating blood work. Waiting for his reply.

 

[tara]

Hi Artemis,
That does sound high and probably does warrant some changes. I don't know how it works, but I'd guess that if you go to the emergency department, they might want to put you straight onto insulin injections or other drugs that have down-sides as well as lowering blood glucose. I don't think you need to take that step immediately before getting better informed about your options. There are people who have succeeded in bringing down very high blood sugars with diet and other strategies.

If it were me, I'd probably try to do:
Go see a doctor, see if they will test insulin level, and find out what they recommend, but not necessarily follow their advice immediately.
Reread all Peat's articles on sugar and diabetes.
Reread thebigpeatowski's log.
Read a few other sources of recommendation from people with other approaches (such as EnoreeG's).
Read up on whatever drugs the drs want to prescribe.
Focus on making sure to get lots of minerals and vitamins - as much as possible from fruit and veges and more from supplements if needed. Maybe higher dose B-vit supplements.
Get fat intake down as low as practical while still getting adequate food, and be rigorous about minimising PUFA.
Avoid large carby meals - go for smaller ones, more frequently.
Experiment with sweet versus starchy foods to check that Peat's take on their effect on blood glucose applies to me. Similarly, experiment with sweet fruit versus veges, with higher and lower fructose fruit/honey, possibly some fructose powder.
Consider an experiment with brewers yeast, as above.
Experiment with meal timeing. According to RBTI, it is common for people to have natural blood sugar cycle that tends to go lowest at midday and highest at midnight. Following this idea, it may make sense to experiment with eating most in the morning, a reasonable lunch, and then only a little later in the day, if needed.

Get some regular movement, eg walking, every day.
Practice breathing exercises/bag-breathing - Rakhimov at normalbreathing.com says you can get blood sugars down with reduced breathing exercises. If not already reliably doing relaxed nasal diaphragmatic breathing, including during sleep, retrain this.
Do what you can to avoid severe life stress.
Sleep as much as necessary.

Retest blood glucose fairly regularly to see if its making a difference.
After a month, assess whether there is improvement. If so, keep going. If not, consider other strategies.
Eventually, if I couldn't figure out diet I would probably eventually be considering using medical approaches. But not straight away.

Take care.

 

[artemis]

Thanks so much for your post, tara. You're such a good .... I don't know, like a Mom?! .... to all of us!

I think that's probably what will happen if I go to the hospital,too. So I haven't gone.

I have done/started all of those things with the exceptions of seeing a doctor and trying brewer's yeast.
Been slamming the B-vitamins (except for biotin, haven't received that yet). And aspirin. Taking cinnamon, too. Guess I'll get some brewer's yeast next.

I've been taping my mouth at night, per your recommendation, and it's working out really well. I was waking up with my mouth open, and since I'm already dehydrated from this high blood sugar, my mouth would be SO dry. Turns out I don't mind the tape at all. So thanks for that!

 

[sunmountain]

Hi Tara, those are some really helpful pointers!! For me, too. I've been diagnosed with methane sibo, reactive hypoglycemia, insulin resistance, and gastroparesis. I think the GI is having a field day with diagnosing me!!

From your pointers, the following stick out for me:
- Avoid large carby meals - go for smaller, more frequently.
I sip AJ all day. Not good for my teeth plus the methanogens cause periodontal disease. But it keeps my sugar even. I do need to eat small somethings every couple of hours or so.

- Experiment with sweet versus starchy.
I've cut back on table sugar and fructose powder. Since I'm no longer eating farmer cheese for breakfast and lunch (my body couldn't use it; turned into ammonia), I've turned back to starch. What I was eating pre-peat. But without pufa as far as possible. I find my body does fine with starch. Even gluten, though I try not to overdo that.

- I do think I have trouble with fructose. But I think I've built up some tolerance to it over the last months. I can sip AJ all day. I can have a little ripe fruit during the day.

- I need to read up on brewer's yeast, what it does, is it useful for insulin resistance.

- Minerals. This is what I'm sketchy about. I was taking magnesium glycinate; then stopped. Not sure about which ones to take and how much. Have become lazy about crono'ing.

- Breathing. Need to work this into my life.

 

[Giraffe]

Hi Artemis, this is in addition to Tara's post ...

Ray Peat mentioned niacinamide, thiamine, thyroid, and progesterone or pregnenolone, Vitamins D and K, coffee.

I read that Haidut used high doses of niacinamid to treat his pre-diabetis.

Also zinc, vitamin C and vitamin E might help to bring the blood sugar down (according to a German website).

 

[artemis]

Hi Giraffe, thanks for your post.

Check, check, check, check, and check!

My kitchen counter is beginning to look like a pharmacy, it's ridiculous. I used to keep all my supplements in the cabinet, but now I just leave them all out on the counter so I'll remember to take them.
The niacinamide powder is the hardest to take, because it tastes so horrible!

 

[tara]

Thanks so much for your post, tara. You're such a good .... I don't know, like a Mom?! .... to all of us!

Thanks Artemis. :)

My kitchen counter is beginning to look like a pharmacy, it's ridiculous. I used to keep all my supplements in the cabinet, but now I just leave them all out on the counter so I'll remember to take them.
The niacinamide powder is the hardest to take, because it tastes so horrible!

I know what you mean about the home pharmacy.:)
I keep my minerals at the bench, but my b-vits in the dark because light damages some of them - riboflavin at least, and I'm not sure about the others.
I mix my b-vits, including niacinamide, into OJ, and they taste fine like that.

 

[Giraffe]

My kitchen counter is beginning to look like a pharmacy, it's ridiculous.

I can imagine it. Mine looks like a fruitshop. Tons of unripe fruits.

The niacinamide powder is the hardest to take, because it tastes so horrible!

Good to know. I am considering to buy niacinamide. So I'll better look out for pills...

 

[tara]

The niacinamide powder is the hardest to take, because it tastes so horrible!

Good to know. I am considering to buy niacinamide. So I'll better look out for pills...

Most pills have fillers you don't want. Powder lets you easily adjust dose (with a tiny measuring spoon set).
I take about 100mg morning and night. Might be better more frequent. Accidental large doses did not do me good, but some people do fine with them. Nice to be able to adjust.

Take a look at Dan Wich's toxinless.com if you haven't already.

 

[Giraffe]

Most pills have fillers you don't want. Powder lets you easily adjust dose (with a tiny measuring spoon set).
I take about 100mg morning and night. Might be better more frequent. Accidental large doses did not do me good, but some people do fine with them. Nice to be able to adjust.

Thanks, Tara. I know about the fillers.

Take a look at Dan Wich's toxinless.com if you haven't already.

Don't know if it's worth the hassle having it shipped to Germany. The supplierers in Germany I have found so far sell powder only for cosmetic uses... hmm?!

 

[tara]

I got mine shipped out of US, but I don't know if you would have issues bringing it into Germany. Postage can be high, too.
Some people here do use it topically, too. :) eg Haidut's energin

 

[jyb]

How cryptic. I was scared sh*tless, now I'm scared blind AND sh*tless.

Finally got a blood glucose monitor that works. All the readings so far have been in the 400's. Geez, this is really f**king serious. No one in my family has ever had diabetes. I don't know anything about it. But apparently I have it. I'm kind of freaked out right now. When I google those numbers, it says I should go to the emergency room! I don't want to do that. Need to get blood work done. I emailed Ray today to ask for his help, at least in terms of getting and evaluating blood work. Waiting for his reply.

Continuing on my previous post. There are two approaches to fix this that I know of (I exclude the conventional diabetes approach, typically something like: whole grains, maybe starch, vegetable products, pure fructose powder). Each of them makes logical sense BUT they are very different.

The first one is what Peat hints at in his glucose article, you promote glucose oxidation and reduce FFA. So, the glucose oxidation cofactors like B-vitamins, various drugs or vitamins like niacinamide that suppress FFA or stimulate insulin. And you shift towards more fructose as it has less immediate effect on blood glucose than pure glucose.

The second approach: you supply just the right amount of carbs, so a physiological amount that is enough to be satisfied and not experience stress, and the bulk of calories from saturated fats, so a metabolism similar to a breastfeeding baby. A bit like cream and whole milk without any added sugar (it seems for some diabetes even this would be too much glucose as they'd need insulin injection, but there are other dairy products with lower lactose content). The aim of the second approach is to keep blood glucose stable - neither too low nor too high. In the second approach it is possible to never have hyperglycaemia like you have now whether fasting or post-meal nor elevated fructose, even in the portal vein before it reaches the liver. A reference for the second approach is Peter from Hyperlipid.

 

[schultz]

The thread is getting interesting so I thought I would post some clips I have taken from various Peat podcasts. Hopefully they are of interest to someone. I personally like hearing him talk about something over reading it.

 

[halken]

First clip right there says it all. Cortisol.

Stress (possibly trauma) are the underlying factors.

I would stress not to worry on your food intake here. Most people are relying too heavily on such things. The fundamental energy is disrupted. I would dare say that it's a combination of cortisol and serotonin.

The psoas muscle may be severely inactive. It is important to remember that the psaos is placed at equal distance along the spine vertically to the thyroid gland. If the psaos is not "open" and active (both major and minor) then the other precursor organs are gonna go (first thyroid, then liver etc) in a cascade of disharmony.

Food is part of the problem. The environment is the other.

The rhythmical environment should be handled first.

 

[EnoreeG]

Yeah, I went off starches completely a month ago. I had always been eating mostly potatoes and sweet potatoes with dinner (not every day though). I feel better without these. I've also been just doing a vegan dinner some days, as I feel better when I don't eat meat absolutely every day.

Hi EnoreeG,
Out of curiosity, if you feel like telling, roughly how much veges do you eat, and how much carbohydrate and calories do you think you get in the average day?
I have a picture of a massive 3-4kg or more pile of high-brix veges to get through each day to get enough carbs (and a great amount of minerals), and I wonder if this is what you are doing, or if you are eating much less carbs altogether? :) It seems daunting to me.

Hi tara,

First an observation: Since you wrote this, there's been a substantial set of posts along a different vein, and my diet I'm about to reveal is remarkably different. Of course different people "need" different things, so there should be differences showing here. But one thing I'll say is that the posts following yours reflect different dietary and supplement strategies that apparently are trying to change a physical condition, a health marker, or at least try to follow a Peat plan for health.

My diet is a health maintenance diet. I know I have T2D and an allergy to the carb side of dairy and some seasonal allergy to pollen. Other than that, I am healthy in that I don't take drugs or supplements other than some iodine, eat hardly any food that isn't organic. I'm not trying to change anything about my physical condition or health markers, nor am I trying to follow a Peat plan for my health. So my status quo is acceptable, in fact I'd characterize it as robust. I've never had a physician in my entire life though I did visit a doctor available to me when I had health insurance from time to time. And I've been sewed up a few times after injuries.

So maybe you can understand that my diet is designed to just keep me healthy, which means make minor changes to try something that might be better, but more or less "keep on keeping on" with what works? For instance, I went off grains a couple of years ago, just because it seemed prudent, though there was no sign they were damaging me. My health stayed the same. But this is to show that I do try things carefully and keep an open mind.

I'm male, 73 years old, 5' 11" and weigh 148 lbs. So I don't need much food. I'd guess I eat less than 2000 calories per day even though I work hard about an hour a day sometimes. I don't worry about how many calories I get from different foods. My main measure is how I feel, how much energy I have, and how I react (immediately) to foods I ingest. For instance, most fats and protein make me feel immediately sluggish, and any high glycemic carbs make me feel giddy and mentally shaky. Starches, either tubers or whole grains, are sort of neutral, but they do put on weight. All these "feelings" are how I choose foods. So the one set of foods that I feel more vibrant on are fibrous veggies. Wild leaves are more empowering than domestic vegetables, but both are acceptable. Fruits such as tomatoes are ok in small quantities. Fruits like berries give me instability. So essentially, I really minimize fruits. But things like cucumber, eggplant, squash are fine, just not as likely to make me feel vibrant-healthy. So there you have my "feelings alone" criteria.

The foods I eat turns out to be mostly fresh-picked greens (maybe 100-150 gm) plus eggs for breakfast, a large (up to 500-750 gm) salad for lunch, consisting of mostly veggies, but with Feta cheese, vinegar and olive oil, then more veggies like onions, squash, mushrooms (usually cooked and not more than about 150 gm) and usually some meat for a final meal of the day. So I guess that might approach 1000 gm of veggies, to address your question.

Of course that will contain a lot of vitamins and minerals that most meals that others choose can't come close to containing. I don't worry at all about how many "carbs" I'm getting, or what percent of my diet is carbs. I think more about nutrient density, as I think it's the little traces of this and that which count.

In fact this new habit I have of going without the supplements is less than a year old. But it seems to leave me healthy. So again, I do read, learn, and make changes.

I have no idea what my blood glucose is. I may buy a meter soon just for curiosity. All I know is that most juices knock me out, energetically and mentally. An apple is fine, and berries now and then, but I parted ways with my sweet tooth 40 or more years ago, so there's no interest in eating many of the foods that many people focus on here. I'm sure my life would be boring if not painful to most people, but I'm glad I have a way to enjoy it and feel really, really healthy. I wouldn't trade this feeling for what most other people have in order to eat honey and OJ or whatever it takes to get through a day in their life.

So to get back to the thread subject, "blood sugar regulation", I do it by not eating many things at all that get digested quickly and depend on insulin for handling inside the body. Most of the carbs I eat are to such a degree fiber, and not sugars or starches, that I am protected from all the worries that people have that focus on balancing sugars, starches, etc. About the main way I follow Peat is that I reduce polyunsaturated fats in my diet to just what I take in via the whole foods, but no more, and I'm a strong believer in the importance of mineral balancing, and the effect our foods have on the endocrine system, as well as the entire body.

 

[Nicholas]

" For instance, most fats and protein make me feel immediately sluggish, and any high glycemic carbs make me feel giddy and mentally shaky. Starches, either tubers or whole grains, are sort of neutral, but they do put on weight. All these "feelings" are how I choose foods."

This is interesting, because the typical peatarian view is that any of these reactions are reflective of a hormone dominance - namely serotonin. the other typical peatarian view is that sometimes these reactions can be the effect of improper balancing (which just goes back to hormone dominance, too). If your pulse and temp are relatively good and you don't experience any negative symptoms (like fatigue, non-restful sleep, or unhealthy bowel movements) then i don't suppose knowing your hormone activity would even matter or reveal much.

 

[Nicholas]

First clip right there says it all. Cortisol.

Stress (possibly trauma) are the underlying factors.

I would stress not to worry on your food intake here. Most people are relying too heavily on such things. The fundamental energy is disrupted. I would dare say that it's a combination of cortisol and serotonin.

The psoas muscle may be severely inactive. It is important to remember that the psaos is placed at equal distance along the spine vertically to the thyroid gland. If the psaos is not "open" and active (both major and minor) then the other precursor organs are gonna go (first thyroid, then liver etc) in a cascade of disharmony.

Food is part of the problem. The environment is the other.

The rhythmical environment should be handled first.

interesting! do you know of any resources on learning more about the psoas that you would recommend? this kind of supports my hunch of neurogenic tremoring being a significant physical therapy as it "opens" the psoas muscle.

 

[tara]

@EnoreeG
Thanks for describing that.
I does look as though your approach would give you lots of valuable minerals, and that's worth a lot, and probably pretty good protein, and obviously enough fibre.
I think your approach, that your are basically well and therefore that there is no need for any radical changes, makes sense.
If someone came here with low temps and low energy etc, and was eating like that, I'd be saying it looks like under-eating, and suggest eating more. With diabetes, you have to make decisions about which approach to take, and I'm glad you've found one that you both enjoy and thrive on.

 

[EnoreeG]

@EnoreeG
Thanks for describing that.
I does look as though your approach would give you lots of valuable minerals, and that's worth a lot, and probably pretty good protein, and obviously enough fibre.
I think your approach, that your are basically well and therefore that there is no need for any radical changes, makes sense.
If someone came here with low temps and low energy etc, and was eating like that, I'd be saying it looks like under-eating, and suggest eating more. With diabetes, you have to make decisions about which approach to take, and I'm glad you've found one that you both enjoy and thrive on.

Thanks, tara. I appreciate your review of it all. Also, Nicholas - I will have to look at the serotonin thing. I've never understood what that's all about in Peatdom, apparently not having run into an interview or quote on that. There's always room for improvement.

I'm also going to submit a sample to 23andme to see what that can tell me about my DNA irregularities. Seems fascinating at this point that most of us have one of those screws loose that cause us to be "different".

 

[narouz]

The thread is getting interesting so I thought I would post some clips I have taken from various Peat podcasts. Hopefully they are of interest to someone. I personally like hearing him talk about something over reading it.

That's a wonderful compilation.
Thanks!