Meat+OJ+Fasting——I Challenge Anyone Not Feeling Optimal On This

Viiiiyu

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Jun 4, 2019
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Are you getting brain fog and jittering from constant sugar?
Are you having wierd cravings not sure whether its protein or fat but certainly not sugar?
Are you getting bloated and constipated and in doubt that you are super sensitive?
Are you sleeping 9hrs a night and wake up not refreshed?
Are you constantly unsure wheter you need to eat or not when you know you are not gonna feel best afrer you eat?
Are you constantly fighting weight problem?
Are you hunting some abscure micronutrent but never felt any better?

I have tried so many macros,timing,combinations and food choices.
Finally some core ideas starts to shake.
In the name of following my intuition and objectively observing the results,I have come to this Forbidden Diet:

——Meat(fatty&lean&salt to taste, meat is fresh not processed) + OJ(added white sugar),eat meat to absolute satiety,drink OJ to prevent tiredness(low blood sugar),dont drink too much or you get dizzy and bloat.(Also the acid in OJ help you digest)

core ideas of this diet
————FAT is the first macro you need to optimaze,FAT is what satiate you on the fondimental level and bring you calmness and specifically facilitate your digestion(not fiber not some mysterious magnessium)
————FASTing comes naturally becuz you are fully satiated and becuz you drink OJ you dont have blood sugar problems.You cant eat when you are hungry again,there is absolute no need to replenish sugar constantly.When you shot up All 3 Macro with a meal your energy would be high and stable untill next meal.(For me I eat till I cant and naturally fast for 18-20hrs)
————Food Choices of fresh meat and OJ becuz they are the most easy to digest also most enjoyable and in large amount I dont see severe short term nutrient deficiencies.
————Ignore the Randle Cycle,you are fasting after.Its a normal healthy process in this diet.
————Drink pure water during the fast(if you need)

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Viiiiyu

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Another fasting thread. Sigh.
I fail on carnivore diet&Fasting thats why I come to ray peat.
Trust me I spent a long time experienting things other than this before I came to this.
There is a reason so many mechanistic evidences(autophagy & mTOR) supporting fasting as a healthy method.
Key is 3Macro all high in one meal
 

ExCarniv

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Iron + Vitamin C, increase iron absorption, not good.

I'd say coffee + meat one meal, and the rest of the day fruits/milk/OJ
 

Viiiiyu

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Iron + Vitamin C, increase iron absorption, not good.

I'd say coffee + meat one meal, and the rest of the day fruits/milk/OJ
but..but..I feel dizzy and bloated consuming sugar alone.
fruits even feel erosive and stabby to my tender guttie
 

boris

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Fruits and juices are best balanced with protein from milk, cheese or gelatin.
You can eat meat and juice too, just OJ is problematic because of the high vit C in combination with red meat.
 
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Fasting is very harmful in my opinion and in Dr. Peat’s interviews he repeatedly discusses this and explains why. There are already enough threads about it. Anyone suggesting intermittent fasting is basically responding to the latest fads. Yes it feels good for awhile but meanwhile it breaks down your organs and increases insulin resistance and destroys delicate cells.
 

Viiiiyu

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Fasting is very harmful in my opinion and in Dr. Peat’s interviews he repeatedly discusses this and explains why. There are already enough threads about it. Anyone suggesting intermittent fasting is basically responding to the latest fads. Yes it feels good for awhile but meanwhile it breaks down your organs and increases insulin resistance and destroys delicate cells.
From my observation Fast+enough all 3 macro youtubers are doing fine and continueing:Snake Diet,Omad Revolution,High Intensity Health,Fledge Fitness,HVMN,Siim Land,Six Miles To Supper.And none of them are fat and gaining weight.
Failed ones are low-carb+fasting.=Danny Georgie Kyle=all low-carb and failed.
 

ExCarniv

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but..but..I feel dizzy and bloated consuming sugar alone.
fruits even feel erosive and stabby to my tender guttie

Orange juice + Gelatin=Jello=Carbs+Protein.

You could try:

Meat+and like 50-60g of honey I do this when I don't want to cook anything but a steak and don't have decent fruit, I feel pretty well afterwards.

And then during the day you could snack a couple times on jelly or egg/fruit-Oj or cheese/fruit-Oj.
 

sladerunner69

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Fruits and juices are best balanced with protein from milk, cheese or gelatin.
You can eat meat and juice too, just OJ is problematic because of the high vit C in combination with red meat.

I think it was established that the iron from meat is not affected one way or the other by Vit C, because it's non-heme iron. There was a thread about this a while back.

However, iron from fortified wheat is heme and will be affected.
 

ScurveDream

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I mean it doesn't sound too bad overall, but I have doubts more now about fasting than I did in the past.

I don't think it is bad entirely as one can periodically do it like every few months or so just as some prolonged, rare/extended autophagy-like phase if you want to call it that. I wouldn't mind it, but fasting regularly/mostly frequently is something I would not do anymore.

Also, too much meat too often is probably not good (even iron aside) in the long run (methionine, phosphorus, etc.) People usually eat meats in small quantities besides main meals -- and in those there is no good recommendation to eat too much at once anyways. I don't believe the whole "we need loads of meat" argument from heavy meat eaters and such who advocate for consuming large amounts of meat/eggs/protein every single day (over 50+g from said sources -- especially if muscle meats).

Maybe you can tweak the meat somewhat + add in some other things and make this diet plan a bit more interesting though.
 
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Meat is THE staple of successful People,Human is a Monkey which started to feed meat.
Dr.Peats ideas about societal control and general Hormonal Analysis is good,his nutritional Advice
is mistaken imho.I advise against eating Junkfood Out of Cylindrical Paks ,MILG,OHRANGE YUICE,OH-J,
COCONUTFAT,its all a little bit junky,etcetc.
He has a real knack for Junkfood,and the weekly oyster wont rescue your elemental needs.
Alot of advise is sadly seemingly constructed around the deficiency and Disorder that Milkconsumption brings with it.
YOU will need Thyroid to supercharge digestive enzymes,for lactose and galactose.There is lots and lots and lots
of Tryptophan in those Milkjugs,way way way more than Meat,but go Combat them with Gelatine!
For stomachissues then low dose antibiotics.My Hunch is also too much of a Dose of Calcium,not mentioned,but true need for
Magnesium Supplementation,also the theorized but unproven need for Hyperphysiologic amount of Salt,which is naturally
consumed in the Range of 1-3g NaCl from all Sources per day.
I had that type of Junkdiet and felt unwell.
 

boris

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@Tristan Loscha
Really, there is more tryprophan in milk than muscle meat? I thought the amino acid ratio of milk somewhat balances the tryptophan. Peat warns about isolated muscle meat consumption because of tryptophan, but not against isolated milk consumption.

Can anybody clarify?

@Tristan Loscha
What kind of diet do you eat now?
 
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@Tristan Loscha
Really, there is more tryprophan in milk than muscle meat? I thought the amino acid ratio of milk somewhat balances the tryptophan. Peat warns about isolated muscle meat consumption because of tryptophan, but not against isolated milk consumption.

Can anybody clarify?

@Tristan Loscha
What kind of diet do you eat now?


i eat 800g of lean chicken or meat,bananas and tomatoes,and butterfat.
 

boris

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Your diet seems in line with Peats perspective. It‘s fine if you don‘t have trouble with serotonin.


Just a lot of PUFA depending on what the chicken ate. Balanced with enough SAF from butter it could be ok. But I don‘t know enough about it to say for sure.
 
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i think avoidance of supplemental PUFA-Oil is the thing.the amounts in meat are physiological,
heating them though.but i know lot of healthy meateaters though.
PUFA are physiologic,Peat is mistaken there imho.just low dose occuring amounts,1-6g a day are acceptable.
i would consume omega 3 fatty acids also low dose.
 
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I researched in a database the amount of tryptophan in ground meat and in milk. Milk has 6 times( !) the amount of tryptophan as ground beef, and chicken breast has about 2 times as much as milk. The casein protein may help with not absorbing the tryptophan, but then wouldn't it become food for bacteria in the large intestine?

Milk has similar methionine content to ground meat and chicken breast, but has less cystine( about half as much).

I also recall reading that vitamin C only enhances non- heme iron absorption( the iron in meat is heme iron). Taking some calcium with it can help if you're concerned with iron overload.

If you wanna fast, then ingesting at least some minerals with your water during the fast will help to avoid tissue breakdown. Potassium, sodium and magnesium would be the main ones, I think.

I think taking antibiotics can be helpful if you bloat up very easily.
 
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