Freely Eating Sugar Ruined Me

redsun

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Are you sure? The evidence I have read over the years suggests the opposite:

Big Doses of Vitamin C May Lower Blood Pressure - 04/18/2012

Maybe in the long run it can interact with minerals like copper. But that is exactly the opposite experience I get if I take 500mg of vitamin C. Heart beats faster, and blood pressure goes up. I'm sure if protein intake was low or mediocre(which includes the average person) you may not get this effect because you are low in amino acids to begin with which make the catecholamines.
 

stargazer1111

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Maybe in the long run it can interact with minerals like copper. But that is exactly the opposite experience I get if I take 500mg of vitamin C. Heart beats faster, and blood pressure goes up. I'm sure if protein intake was low or mediocre(which includes the average person) you may not get this effect because you are low in amino acids to begin with which make the catecholamines.

The only thing that springs to mind is that vitamin C is a hypoglycemic agent. It might be lowering your blood sugar if you aren't consuming enough sugar at the same moment you are consuming the vitamin C. This might cause the rise in stress hormones.

When I was eating keto, I couldn't take any vitamin C because it would cause hypoglycemic crashes at even small doses. Potassium did the same thing when I was on keto, verifying Ray's idea that potassium is insulin-like.
 

redsun

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The only thing that springs to mind is that vitamin C is a hypoglycemic agent. It might be lowering your blood sugar if you aren't consuming enough sugar at the same moment you are consuming the vitamin C. This might cause the rise in stress hormones.

When I was eating keto, I couldn't take any vitamin C because it would cause hypoglycemic crashes at even small doses. Potassium did the same thing when I was on keto, verifying Ray's idea that potassium is insulin-like.

That makes sense, except I get no hypoglycemia symptoms. It is energizing. Its possible if you take it without food it may do that but can't say I get low BS at all from it the way I take it.
 
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lampofred

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I know this is an out-of-date post, but how do you know it was the orange juice giving you high blood pressure? Generally, orange juice shouldn't do this, especially considering how high in potassium it is.

My diet has consisted of orange juice, grape juice, skim milk, and lean meat (I've switched to lean chicken breast recently as I think I have a beef intolerance) for a while and I love it. It hasn't cured all of my problems, but it causes far fewer problems for me compared to keto or high starch. That's just me, though.

I should also echo what was brought up earlier about protein. Without enough protein, the liver is unable to process things, fructose being one of them. I suspect the liver requires a hefty amount of protein to properly metabolize fructose.

Some brands of commercial orange juice are very high in glyphosate, which disorders everything, and have added citric acid, which binds calcium/magnesium and raises BP.
 

stargazer1111

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Some brands of commercial orange juice are very high in glyphosate, which disorders everything, and have added citric acid, which binds calcium/magnesium and raises BP.

I thought the glyphosate thing turned out not to be true:

https://crec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/trade_journals/2017/2017_dec_addressing.pdf

If you're getting enough calcium, I'm not sure the citric acid in the orange juice would be enough to lower calcium but I can't know for sure one way or the other. It seems like this would be a stretch but I could be wrong.
 

CLASH

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i think oranges and other citrus can have high amounts of synephrine, especially if the peel is juiced with the fruit. Synephrine is a sympathetic agonist causing vasoconstriction and elevations of blood pressure.
 
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lampofred

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I thought the glyphosate thing turned out not to be true:

https://crec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/trade_journals/2017/2017_dec_addressing.pdf

If you're getting enough calcium, I'm not sure the citric acid in the orange juice would be enough to lower calcium but I can't know for sure one way or the other. It seems like this would be a stretch but I could be wrong.

If I drink Tropicana over a few days I feel very sick until I can get some gelatin to balance out the glyphosate. I felt off when I drank that brand even before I found out that it had the highest glyphosate content of all commercial brands, so I don't think it's just placebo. And other commerical brands don't make me feel bad like Tropicana does, so I don't think it's because commercial juice in general is lower quality vs fresh-squeezed/organic either.
 

CLASH

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If I drink Tropicana over a few days I feel very sick until I can get some gelatin to balance out the glyphosate. I felt off when I drank that brand even before I found out that it had the highest glyphosate content of all commercial brands, so I don't think it's just placebo.

Do the organic OJ's contain glyphosate? can you point me towards the article if you dont mind? I did a cursory search with pubmed med behind and didnt find much.
 

Julles

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(...]
-Lost all motivation, even to eat
-Have not eaten anything in 5 days, only drank coca-cola b/c I have no appetite for anything else
(...)
-Too lazy to type complete sentences
(...)
-In short, I am a recovering addict
-Sugar really is a drug

I NEED my D2 receptors back, but they take months and years to regenerate even partially and most likely will never fully come back :(

You are learning to be helpless?

Please re-read the motto of this forum: "Perceive, Think, Act", no one will do it for you.
 
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Commercial OJ contains also CNS insecticides.

"Carbendazim is a fungicidal pesticide that is not legal for use on oranges in the U.S. but is allowed in many countries. The burden of proof falls on juice importers to ensure that such products are not contaminated prior to entry into U.S. markets."
 
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Are you replying to my recent post or to the op?

I meant the OP.Im sure what he decribes was overfeeding related,induced B-Carbohydrate-Complex. it sounded so severe and i got sad.he is now well again,
as it seems.Even if Peat is somewhat against supplementation,the danger of deficiency is way higher and more dangerous than overdoing it.
 
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lampofred

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Do the organic OJ's contain glyphosate? can you point me towards the article if you dont mind? I did a cursory search with pubmed med behind and didnt find much.

Pesticide use isn't allowed in organic food so I think there would be no glyphosate (unless there is contaminated water runoff getting into the crop or some obscure thing like that). I don't seem to get bad effects from Simply Orange but it might be safer to just get organic if it's not too much more expensive.

I found it here: Glyphosate Found in All 5 Major Orange Juice Brands

In general I trust these kinds of sites far more than the fancy high-budget peer-reviewed studies.
 
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stargazer1111

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If I drink Tropicana over a few days I feel very sick until I can get some gelatin to balance out the glyphosate. I felt off when I drank that brand even before I found out that it had the highest glyphosate content of all commercial brands, so I don't think it's just placebo. And other commerical brands don't make me feel bad like Tropicana does, so I don't think it's because commercial juice in general is lower quality vs fresh-squeezed/organic either.

I agree about Tropicana. Tropicana orange juice tastes gross. It tastes either rotten or contaminated or something. The grocery store near me has a really incredible store brand that is both cheaper and much better quality.
 

stargazer1111

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Pesticide use isn't allowed in organic food so I think there would be no glyphosate (unless there is contaminated water runoff getting into the crop or some obscure thing like that). I don't seem to get bad effects from Simply Orange but it might be safer to just get organic if it's not too much more expensive.

I found it here: Glyphosate Found in All 5 Major Orange Juice Brands

In general I trust these kinds of sites far more than the fancy high-budget peer-reviewed studies.

I wouldn't. Some of the data MAM cites about corn have been shown to be false. Also, the levels of glyphosate actually calculated in orange juice are so small as to be physiologically irrelevant. MAM is fearmongering here, I think.

Glyphosate kills citrus trees. If any significant quantities had been sprayed on them, there would be no oranges to make the juice in the first place.
 

RWilly

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(I've switched to lean chicken breast recently as I think I have a beef intolerance)

Could be due to the high heme iron and zinc content that puts copper out of balance. Additionally, saturated fat increases endotoxin absorption.
 

stargazer1111

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Ray Peat's theories on sugar are highly... theoretical... The preponderance of evidence (credible or otherwise) suggests he is wrong. Same thing with his theories on serotonin, at least the ones where it's bad instead of the ones where he doubts that serotonin is the only "key" to depression, which is obviously shown in the research and first demonstrated by Tianeptine. Tianeptine doesn't actually have much of a serotonin decreasing effect, it's more like it doesn't really do anything to it, not in relevant brain areas anyway. It's ability to inhibit certain signs induced by 5-HTP is likely caused by its Mu agonism as the dose used in the study to prove its anti-serotonergic effects was actually quite high.

His opinion of SSRI's is however spot on, they specifically are in fact mitochondrial poisons. That's been proven in a couple studies. I'm not sure about norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors though. I think MAO-A inhibition to a certain extent is quite beneficial to mitochondrial respiration. And MAO-B inhibition, as demonstrated by Deprenyl, definitely is beneficial.

Actually, the preponderance of the evidence suggests he is right. I study this for a living and a recent meta-analysis of the literature shows that replacing any other macronutrient with sugar in an isocaloric context (meaning replacing starch, fat, or protein with sucrose) results in a significant reduction in HbA1C levels. Funny that a lot of the "experts" like Lustig claim that fructose drives advanced glycation much faster than glucose, yet the majority of the evidence shows that replacing glucose (or fat or protein) with something containing fructose actually lowers the amount of advanced glycation end products formed.

Peat is right and the literature is on his side.
 
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Actually, the preponderance of the evidence suggests he is right. I study this for a living and a recent meta-analysis of the literature shows that replacing any other macronutrient with sugar in an isocaloric context (meaning replacing starch, fat, or protein with sucrose) results in a significant reduction in HbA1C levels. Funny that a lot of the "experts" like Lustig claim that fructose drives advanced glycation much faster than glucose, yet the majority of the evidence shows that replacing glucose (or fat or protein) with something containing fructose actually lowers the amount of advanced glycation end products formed.

Peat is right and the literature is on his side.
Yeah, I find it very interesting that fructose actually causes less glycation than glucose. Makes me think where Lustig got that fructose-causes -more- glycation theory from. Probably from in vitro studies.
 

GelatinGoblin

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Note:

@Blinkyrocket was banned permanently for making very disturbing statements towards forum members. Here is an example of one of them:



For some reason, when we switched over to the new forum software, some of the bans did not transfer over and he was allowed back into the system. Yesterday, once I saw he was back, and also mistreating members again, I went ahead and re-applied the permanent ban due to his continued disrespect of the community.

He then goes onto the .org site and says this:

Blinkyrocket:


As @Constatine mentioned earlier, you are allowed to disagree here, and we welcome that. But you will do it respectfully if you want to continue to participate here.

:hattip

His posts were interesting and informative to an extent, the ones on Serotonin. And an "intellectual" anti-Peat on this forum is rare.
Shame he has no life
 

GelatinGoblin

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Ok.

" (downregulation of D1/2 receptors with opioid-like withdrawal symptoms)."

Peat said it took him two years to get away/of from starch. :D


If you have enough vital energy and not so severe metabolic issues most problems are corrected literally in a couple of weeks or even days if everything is done strictly if you know whats main underlaying issue.
Of course....Unless u have serious problems with thyroid , poor health and stress from childhood , years long life stress and dieting and then with stomach acid and gut health and SIBO and congested liver..


This has been already explained very well by Peat and elsewhere by other members in the past threads but this is my interpretation whats happening when cortisol starts to rule ower your thyroid

Trust me I too blamed sugar and Ca and got frustrated for some minor issues that I started to notice at the end of third year of peating and it was related to some minor changes and some other private life stressors as usually is the case that are allowing the cortisol to go ahead and make a circle of unwanted reactions that shift the balance into an chaotic drug-like state unless i made very small changes and those issues I had with appetite for sweet and with sleep and teeths literally cleared in a week and everything came back in normal.

In your case maybe it is not about minor issues that entered cortisol circle and maybe you have very high cortisol because of low thyroid with sluggish liver or some life stress. And even if u have SIBO it can be corrected fully only with thyroid and liver health and adequate nutrition which will enable strong acid and digestion .

Your cortisol is surely high for some reason which can be seen in loss of appetite and muscles and gain in weight around abdomen. Cortisol can be elevated from several reasons one of which is poor thyroid, sluggish liver, lack of nutrients needed for activation and transport of thyroid hormone or for detoxifying the overburdened liver or from life or job stress.

In such situation body doesn t crave sugar and normal nourishing pro metabolic food sources of protein(it will lower blood sugar and body doesnt want that since it trying to stay alive) and fat because it will lower cortisol and body is not craving and do not signal appetite for it because it tries to commpensate poor stressed undernourished metabolism with pumping more cortisol for missing nutrients or low thyroid or poor liver and other mentioned stressors ....

Cortisol eats your muscles to provide high blood sugar since everything failled and puts fat reserve and it is a common mechanism to keep you alive when thyroid, liver and overall metabolism cannot function properly.

And body normaly is seeking high cortisol inducing things to keep that state such as Starch, pufa fried junk foods etc.

And of course you will feel great on cortisol boosting foods because you are satisfying body's atempt to increase cortisol and you will also keep serotonin levels high and will accelerate aging. And some even lose excess weigh on starch withoit losing muscles since glucose from starch prevents that but I think its also cortisol related and not good long therm.

In such situations eating sole table sugar and coffee will make it worse as in his case because those two will not be used properly because of high cortisol state and they will increase stress and serotonin further instead of lowering it.


So I also think that a lot of people who start eating Peaty have not so ideal thyroid and liver health as Haidut figured out and have high cortisol at the begining and so they gain weight easily, have blood sugar issues, have liver and SIBO problems , crave starch to keep body's strivings for cortisol satisfied...and even for people that are eating like this for longer time there are always periods of increased unavoidable stress and cortisol and sugar and Ca are not doing what they should, it can worsen SIBO and overburdens the liver and craving for starch and street junk food starts to appear in such situations.

That is why Peat says we need to have constantly high thyroid and progesterone/pregnenolone(and sometimes supplement them) to keep us more resistant to stress and not to fall in trap and circle of cortisol and starch cravings where sugar and Ca can not do their job.


I also blamed sugar and milk but For sugar isses and Ca In my case as i said in previous posts i was just missing some nutrients and proteins and a higher fat dairy to stabilize Ca excitation effects and probably enhance soluble vitamins metabolism esspecially vit K. Now i can eat 500 g of table sugar without any issues.

I found being less ignorrant in trying to watch for symptoms and new things is good instead of criticizing Peat as I did in one recent period when trying to correct minor issue with eating starch and being confused with Tyw theory


And my opinions that table sugar is perfectly fine if other nutrition is good as Peat also said and i wonder how Peat prepares his coffee con leche, gelatin dessert, marmelade or ice cream . He enjoys mexi Coke too.

I must say one thing....To be honest and not disrespectfull in any way but Tyw's evidences, that are valuable for sure and should be appreciated , against some of Peat recommendations and any others who tried (including me) to prove it wrong without strong evidence are still very weak and NOTHING compared to Peats complete image of an organism in articles and books.

He connects so many things andvpresent them as simplest as he could that sometimes some of our interpretations and strivings to "prove it wrong" about his recommendations sounds very funny and stupid. :)

I would advise all members to read Peats books and articles that are not only related to strictly nutrition since they give insight to his whole vision and complete process of understanding of the nature as a wholeness and us as an organic part of it and what his work really is about.

Starch = Glucose = Less Cortisol. Of course some Serotogenic and Adrenic problems may arise from non-ideal digestion
 
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