Freely Eating Sugar Ruined Me

[tara]

The term "sugar" need not assume the adjective "refined", although perhaps I missed the post where that was made clear.

I quite agree that sugar doesn't always mean refined.
I think it's sometimes used that way, and sometimes used more broadly, and it gets confusing when they are not distinguished.
This was some of the context I was responding to - note that he's not talking about cutting down on fruit salad and milk:

i am trying to cut down on sugar.
drinks are the worst... all the soda. i am soooo trying to cut down on my coke and pepsi.

and cakes. sigh i have a sweet tooth and i love cakes so much
no choice, i do agree sugar is killing us

Anyways in the "sugar" KUMD interview Peat says there are four main types of sugar: glucose, fructose, sucrose, and lactose. He claims all of these are very digestible and healthy.

Yes, he does, and that's one way to use the word. And he usually encourages sweet foods with minerals included like fruit and milk etc. In practice, based on reading here and my own experience, it seems that some people do really well with all these, while some people do better with more starch and less of the sucrose, glucose+fructose or lactose type sugars. Peat also encourages observing the effects of foods for us personally.

 

[lollipop]

USA. With Amazon, not sure that matters too much anymore. Seems most things are available anywhere.

Hi @danielbb I use Tropical Traditions organic refined coconut oil. It is lovely, neutral flavor so can be used with any cooking.

 

[danielbb]

Hi @danielbb I use Tropical Traditions organic refined coconut oil. It is lovely, neutral flavor so can be used with any cooking.

Thank you kindly @lisaferraro!

 

[General Orange]

• going to the fridge
• thinking about absorbing nutrients

...are two worlds apart in this age

Just going for a look-whats-in-the-fridge-walk, can be dangerous when you have an addiction to starchy modified sweet delicious food*
* This is not real food it is a smart fabrication that controls your mind. They have you under their spell.
You should mindfully replace that sort of "food" with fruit or a sugared drink, until you've overcome your addiction.
Food intake should not be so much fun, or so delicious.
.. but rather nutritious above all, then just with the addition of a minimum of sweetness via sugar or fruit, you can get control back :)

 

[sladerunner69]

I quite agree that sugar doesn't always mean refined.
I think it's sometimes used that way, and sometimes used more broadly, and it gets confusing when they are not distinguished.
This was some of the context I was responding to - note that he's not talking about cutting down on fruit salad and milk:



Yes, he does, and that's one way to use the word. And he usually encourages sweet foods with minerals included like fruit and milk etc. In practice, based on reading here and my own experience, it seems that some people do really well with all these, while some people do better with more starch and less of the sucrose, glucose+fructose or lactose type sugars. Peat also encourages observing the effects of foods for us personally.

The favorable sentiment towards starch from some on this board is interesting to me. As you said, more than a few users here have reported better results with more starch and less sugar. However, after reading through the bulk of Dr. Peat's articles, emails, and listening to many of his interviews through the years, I have yet to hear him speak even mildly favorably about starch. He does not like how starch fibers irritate the gut lining, and how the large molecules have the potential to clog arteries. The man will not even eat potatoes unless they have been juiced.

 

[Forsythia]

The man will not even eat potatoes unless they have been juiced.

Sladerunner, Peat speaks very highly about potatoes (when they are well cooked). Here are some quotes from Peat about potatoes. Note that he calls potatoes "nearly perfect food" and compares them favourably with milk and eggs.

“Potato protein is high in quality, if the potato is very well cooked and eaten with butter or cream. Although potatoes contain only about 2% protein, a kilogram of potato has roughly the protein value of a liter of milk (which is 3% protein), because of its high quality.”

“It's a good idea to have a quart of milk (about 32 grams of protein) every day, besides a variety of other high quality proteins, including cheeses, eggs, shellfish, and potatoes. The protein of potatoes is extremely high quality, and the quantity, in terms of a percentage, is similar to that of milk. “

“Two pounds of well-cooked mashed potato has the protein value similar to a liter of milk, about 33 grams of protein. A person would be able to live for a long time on two or three liters of either milk or 4-6 pounds of potatoes per day. The milk drinker would eventually need to supplement iron, the potato eaters would need to supplement vitamin A, possibly B12, but both of them are nearly perfect foods.

"The very juicy fruits are best raw, but if starchy like plantains or bananas, they should be cooked, because the starches can enter the blood stream and cause allergic reactions, called presorption, blocking capillaries and arteries until the particle can be broken down but it can stay in place long enough to kill cells in the heart and brain and lungs. Feeding mice on a raw starch diet, they were very prematurely aged, because of the death of cells in their organs blocked by starch grains. Potatoes are almost the perfect food if very well cooked, because you want to break down the starch and the non-starch ingredients of a potato have almost a perfect balance of nutrients, b vitamins, essential amino acids, carbs in the right proportion, and the only thing that is lacking in a pure potato diet is vitamin A and vitamin B12. They are a very balanced food."

Q: Sweet potatoes, or white?
RP: "White potatoes. Some white potatoes contain enough carotene that that could provide requirement of Vitamin A, sweet potatoes often contain so much Carotene that it interferes with digestion, too much carotene has anti-hormonal effects, it can slow down production of thyroid hormones, progesterone, adrenal hormones etc, if it accumulates to point of making your palms of calluses turn orange."

Q: I'm going to be moving to an area that doesn't have any good animal proteins, do you think replacing animal protein with potatoes would work because of their keto acid content?
Ray: "Yes, people in New Guinea who eat nothing but potatoes for 51 weeks of the year (and pork the other week) have been studied and found to be healthy with no signs of protein deficiency."

"Potatoes are the only vegetable protein which is of quality equal to egg yolk. It's actually a little higher in quality because it contains precursors to the essential amino acids; it has more protein in effect than it actually has in substance. And people misjudge potatoes because they are given as 2 to 4%, because wet potatoes are measured, where beans are measured in the dry state and have 40% protein, but...you have to divide the bean protein by 10 to make it equivalent to potatoes."

 

[tara]

The favorable sentiment towards starch from some on this board is interesting to me. As you said, more than a few users here have reported better results with more starch and less sugar. However, after reading through the bulk of Dr. Peat's articles, emails, and listening to many of his interviews through the years, I have yet to hear him speak even mildly favorably about starch. He does not like how starch fibers irritate the gut lining, and how the large molecules have the potential to clog arteries. The man will not even eat potatoes unless they have been juiced.

That's true. Maybe I should be flagging more consistently that what I said is somewhat out of step with Peat's cautions about starch. But I think he tells the story in ways that show it's more of a problem for some than others, and certainly he's said that good health can be compatible with eating starch for some people. Fortsythia's quotes are all good relevant ones, there are others about carbs more generally. The overriding message, IMO, involves observing oneself as well as studying the science.

 

[lampofred]

A year later, to give an update to this thread, I don't think it was the sugar that caused my issues because stopping my consumption of refined sugar/coke hasn't helped at all. I think severe serotonin dominance is the cause of all the issues I mentioned in the OP, and that is a result of many different things put together and can't be chalked up to just eating too much fructose/sucrose.

 

[General Orange]

If the coffee still not working or making you agitated?

 

[sladerunner69]

Sladerunner, Peat speaks very highly about potatoes (when they are well cooked). Here are some quotes from Peat about potatoes. Note that he calls potatoes "nearly perfect food" and compares them favourably with milk and eggs.

“Potato protein is high in quality, if the potato is very well cooked and eaten with butter or cream. Although potatoes contain only about 2% protein, a kilogram of potato has roughly the protein value of a liter of milk (which is 3% protein), because of its high quality.”

“It's a good idea to have a quart of milk (about 32 grams of protein) every day, besides a variety of other high quality proteins, including cheeses, eggs, shellfish, and potatoes. The protein of potatoes is extremely high quality, and the quantity, in terms of a percentage, is similar to that of milk. “

“Two pounds of well-cooked mashed potato has the protein value similar to a liter of milk, about 33 grams of protein. A person would be able to live for a long time on two or three liters of either milk or 4-6 pounds of potatoes per day. The milk drinker would eventually need to supplement iron, the potato eaters would need to supplement vitamin A, possibly B12, but both of them are nearly perfect foods.

"The very juicy fruits are best raw, but if starchy like plantains or bananas, they should be cooked, because the starches can enter the blood stream and cause allergic reactions, called presorption, blocking capillaries and arteries until the particle can be broken down but it can stay in place long enough to kill cells in the heart and brain and lungs. Feeding mice on a raw starch diet, they were very prematurely aged, because of the death of cells in their organs blocked by starch grains. Potatoes are almost the perfect food if very well cooked, because you want to break down the starch and the non-starch ingredients of a potato have almost a perfect balance of nutrients, b vitamins, essential amino acids, carbs in the right proportion, and the only thing that is lacking in a pure potato diet is vitamin A and vitamin B12. They are a very balanced food."

Q: Sweet potatoes, or white?
RP: "White potatoes. Some white potatoes contain enough carotene that that could provide requirement of Vitamin A, sweet potatoes often contain so much Carotene that it interferes with digestion, too much carotene has anti-hormonal effects, it can slow down production of thyroid hormones, progesterone, adrenal hormones etc, if it accumulates to point of making your palms of calluses turn orange."

Q: I'm going to be moving to an area that doesn't have any good animal proteins, do you think replacing animal protein with potatoes would work because of their keto acid content?
Ray: "Yes, people in New Guinea who eat nothing but potatoes for 51 weeks of the year (and pork the other week) have been studied and found to be healthy with no signs of protein deficiency."

"Potatoes are the only vegetable protein which is of quality equal to egg yolk. It's actually a little higher in quality because it contains precursors to the essential amino acids; it has more protein in effect than it actually has in substance. And people misjudge potatoes because they are given as 2 to 4%, because wet potatoes are measured, where beans are measured in the dry state and have 40% protein, but...you have to divide the bean protein by 10 to make it equivalent to potatoes."

I had not come across most of these quotes, thanks for sharing them with me. I do recall him writing in an email that the best method of consuming potatoes is by juicing them and boiling the juice. That way you can cook and retain most of the protein and not risk persorption of the starch. The risk of presorption is not clear to me, however. If it the effect of it was truly pernicious, then why do so many people tend to lvie so long on diets based around starch and animal protien, for instance.

 

[Elephanto]

Peat is first about not being stupid.... Assess and experiment, see results and act accordingly. Believe your body before you believe ...anybody even Peat.

Amen. Exactly the reason people are stuck on this board for years in a loop. Doesn't help that both sugar and dairy trigger opioid receptors, giving a physical incentive to not drop them and clouding the mind away from authentic self-inspection.

Evidence that intermittent, excessive sugar intake causes endogenous opioid dependence. - PubMed - NCBI

DIFFERENTIAL INVOLVEMENT OF ENDOGENOUS OPIOIDS IN SUCROSE CONSUMPTION AND FOOD REINFORCEMENT

Milk protein-derived opioid receptor ligands. - PubMed - NCBI

(also present in the whey portion of milk for which A1 and A2 milk share similar properties, that is from alpha-lactalbumin, beta-lactoglobulin and lactoferrin)

 

[Elephanto]

he calls potatoes "nearly perfect food"

Potatoes contain saponins which increase intestinal permeability resulting in persoption of molecules and endotoxin entry in the bloodstream. Far from an ideal food when one realizes the importance of gut health's relationship to general health.

Effects of saponins and glycoalkaloids on the permeability and viability of mammalian intestinal cells and on the integrity of tissue preparations ... - PubMed - NCBI

Permeabilization of cell membranes. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Forsythia]

Potatoes contain saponins

Elephanto, I don't get the relevance of the abstracts you posted. It seems they were testing pure saponins (although the source of the saponins is not stated) which is a far cry from eating a boiled potato. If you are concerned about saponins, then peel the potato as most of the saponins are in the peel As well, boil the potato in water until well cooked and eat with a fat source, just like Peat recommends.

 

[danielbb]

Elephanto, I don't get the relevance of the abstracts you posted. It seems they were testing pure saponins (although the source of the saponins is not stated) which is a far cry from eating a boiled potato. If you are concerned about saponins, then peel the potato as most of the saponins are in the peel As well, boil the potato in water until well cooked and eat with a fat source, just like Peat recommends.

I was thinking the same thing. Well-cooked potatoes, without the skins, work exceedingly well for me. I am starting to understand that no matter what the substance, not every person out there reacts the same way.

 

[Forsythia]

I was thinking the same thing. Well-cooked potatoes, without the skins, work exceedingly well for me. I am starting to understand that no matter what the substance, not every person out there reacts the same way.

Danielbb, they work very well for me too. They are satiating, taste great with mushrooms (I cook them together) and nothing has helped me more than boiled potatoes to solve my problem with constipation. I eat a medium to large sized potato almost every day. I choose to leave the skin on. My digestion has never been better.

 

[danielbb]

Danielbb, they work very well for me too. They are satiating, taste great with mushrooms (I cook them together) and nothing has helped me more than boiled potatoes to solve my problem with constipation. I eat a medium to large sized potato almost every day. I choose to leave the skin on. My digestion has never been better.

Back in my days (about a year ago), and before I found out about Ray Peat and PUFA, like many people I ate a lot of French fries, potato chips, and other fried foods. Now, I enjoy mashed potatoes just as much if not more. I've found them to work well for my overall hormone production along with other Peat favorites such as milk, OJ, and lately liver. Proper digestion is perhaps one of the most important keys to health. My wife suffered for years with constipation and also has found great improvements in that area like you have mentioned.

 

[Forsythia]

Proper digestion is perhaps one of the most important keys to health.

Completely agree. Very good to hear you and your wife are doing so well. Simple food seems to make for a happy life.

 

[InChristAlone]

A year later, to give an update to this thread, I don't think it was the sugar that caused my issues because stopping my consumption of refined sugar/coke hasn't helped at all. I think severe serotonin dominance is the cause of all the issues I mentioned in the OP, and that is a result of many different things put together and can't be chalked up to just eating too much fructose/sucrose.

Thanks for updating. Sugar isn't the problem .

 

[Elephanto]

Elephanto, I don't get the relevance of the abstracts you posted. It seems they were testing pure saponins (although the source of the saponins is not stated) which is a far cry from eating a boiled potato. If you are concerned about saponins, then peel the potato as most of the saponins are in the peel As well, boil the potato in water until well cooked and eat with a fat source, just like Peat recommends.

They are also contained in the tuber itself, but who knows the safety threshold for saponin ingestion. Though unpeeled is definitely worse I agree, for instance fries intake (but not other fried food or food high in O6) was significantly correlated with IBS prevalence in an epidemiological study.

That said, if you do a google search on "potato + gas-producing" you'll find a lot of results, it's a pretty common testimony that happens with peeled boiled potatoes too. Any gut irritant will cause gas. In french we got this old commonfolk dietary advice to lose weight, the avoidance of the 3 P's : Potatoes, Pasta and Bread (Pain). What they have in common is the presence of intestinal barrier disrupters. It's not so rare that people lack the attention to body signals and keep on eating for decades foods that progressively make them more bloated and visibly unhealthy. So pay attention.

 

[Elephanto]

Btw gut irritants reliably cure constipation. Nothing like a big cup of coffee with cream (2 gut irritants, chlorogenic acid and carrageenan) to make me go to the toilet. Or spicy mexican food.

Constipation : I see 2 probable causes that are not mutually exclusive. (if that isn't your diet, disregard the first one I just want to put the info out here)

1. Opioids cause constipation, so does chronic intake of sucrose and dairy given their opioid receptors-binding properties.

The differences between the CAS and the WPS groups were partly (GER) or completely (GITT) abolished by pretreating the animals with the specific opiate-receptor antagonist naloxone. It is assumed that opioid peptides released from casein during digestion slowed gastrointestinal motility by direct interaction with gut opiate receptors.

2. Hypothyroidism. Since people often find Peat to self-cure their hypothyroidism, the combo of this diet and the condition is probably common, but an opioid-induced state also fits many of the parameters of hypothyroidism so they may be working in negative synergy, perhaps worsening the condition or putting a brake on recovery.