The Peat Diet And Diabetes. Advice Please

Discussion in 'Diet' started by Alibaba, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Alibaba

    Alibaba Member

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    Hi. I am new to this forum and new to the concepts of this diet so any advice would be very welcome.

    I am 56 and have been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes since 1997 and on insulin since 2003.

    I lost much of my energy as a young teenager, was a skinny child, a plump teenager and have been a fat adult. Much of the weight was gained during my first pregnancy when 21 and has never gone away. Digestive issues have bugged me most of my adult life, and post carb consumption exhaustion was a big problem along with years of hypoglycaemia and Candida/fungal issues.

    12 years or so of raging IBS-D (probably exacerbated by being given Byetta for the diabetes, which I am almost certain triggered chronic pancreatic insufficiency - or worse) culminated in virtually everything I ate going straight through me and my diet reduced to just a handful of different foods. After being dismissed by the Medical Profession as having 'nothing wrong' with me, left to my own devices, I picked up a link to Celiac disease, dumped the gluten and have gradually, over the last 5 years been very slowly rebuilding my health.

    I recognised carbs were a big no-no for me so 3 years ago I started following a very low carb healing diet. To a certain extent it has helped - the IBS stopped within hours of dumping the gluten, gradually the raging restless legs and burning feet abated and I am no longer a walking fungus-factory, but judging by the fact that I still can't lose any weight and have been steadily regaining all the weight I lost when hardly eating, and the fact that my hair and nails - a good indicator of nutritional strength - are still very thin and weak, and my body seems to be getting ever less sensitive to the insulin suggests that this may be as far as I can go with this.

    I have introduced a lot more (cooked) green veg and that seems to be helping my digestion, but I am not sure where to go from here. I recognise that my issues are still nutritional, and my diet is still, and has been for the last 5 years very natural and unprocessed, but it still feels as though something is missing. I have only been eating CO and butter for fats with a little lard here and there, very little sugar, no fruit, plenty of eggs, fish and meat/poultry. In recent times I have reintroduced dairy and I do sometimes have a little potato or rice with my meal. I do have a bit of a weakness for pistachios and very bitter chocolate, probably because of 'deprivation' issues, and both are probably somewhat counter-productive.

    I was intrigued to read about diabetes being cured by eating lots of sugar! Whilst I can see that adding in fruit, and other highly nutritious sources of sugar ought to be beneficial, I am somewhat scared to do that. Any advice on this would be very gratefully received. And any personal experiences on this would be fantastic too.

    Ali
     
  2. OP
    Alibaba

    Alibaba Member

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    Just wanted to add - out of interest, my BG reading this morning was 9.3 mm/ol (much higher than I would wish). An hour ago I had a cup of milky coffee to which I added (I usually drink it without anything sweet in it) half a teaspoon of honey to see what would happen. My BG has gone up to 13.7 mm/ol. And that is despite having 10 units of insulin!

    Yet, last night before bed I had half a teaspoon of the Manuka honey and my reading was 9.4.

    2 nights ago (unusually for me, because I am a terrible evening grazer for the nuts and chocolate) I didn't eat anything after my dinner and my reading before bed was 4.7. So there is sometimes a response, but it is very slow.
     
  3. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    Hi Ali,

    :welcome2

    I'm not sufficiently qualified to give you any advice except to point to some of Ray Peat's articles and views on sugar and diabetes.

    Have you visited his website and read his articles?

    Here is a link to his article on glucose, sucrose and diabetes. You may wish to start there.

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glucose-sucrose-diabetes.shtml

    I can appreciate you having fear of eating sugar due to how we have been programmed to think sugar is a bad thing and life threatening to a diabetic.

    There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum who I am sure can assist you with additional information.

    See you around the forum! :D
     
  4. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    Hi again Ali,

    Here is another article that should assist you.

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/glycemia.shtml

    Really good information for you.

    The nuts are a big problem because they are full of PUFA and it is important to eliminate PUFA from your diet as soon as possible.

    PUFAS are found in nuts, margarine, mayo, chicken, pork, fish, and be sure that your chocolate and ice cream don't have vegetable oils.

    Do you drink milk or eat cheese? Milk, orange juice, coffee, gelatin, sugar, chocolate, eggs, coconut oil, potatoes and white rice (if tolerated), liver once a week, occasional shellfish, bone broth, gelatinous cuts of meat form the basis of a Peat inspired diet.

    If you can tell us what you are eating now, that will help.

    Do you measure temps or take your pulse? Those numbers will also help others give you feedback.

    I think there are other diabetics on the forum who can share their experience with you.
     
  5. OP
    Alibaba

    Alibaba Member

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    Hi. Thanks for the welcome.

    I have been on Ray's site and had a look at a few articles on sugar metabolism and diabetes, etc. Will have to do more investigation on that though.

    What I eat.

    Breakfast is usually something to do with eggs. At least once a week I try to make a large pan of 'green soup' that lasts me two or three days. That consists of a combination of basically anything green that is in my fridge - 'french' or runner beans, broccoli, kale, spinach, leeks, parsley, celery, watercress, courgette (zucchini), etc. Bit like Bieler's broth. Boiled with some celtic sea salt for about 30 mins then whizzed in the blender. I tend to add 2 - 3 eggs to that, cooked whites, runny yolks, some butter, coconut oil and more salt if needed.

    Lunch - unless I have had the breakfast late - is usually cheese, ham or other meat, fish, sometimes with one or two thin rice cakes and some butter.

    Dinner, eaten around 6pm, is usually fish, chicken, meat with a goodly dose of vegetables and sometimes a little potato or rice. If I make a dessert (gluten-free) I may sometimes have a tiny portion, but usually I will just content myself with some pistachios and bitter chocolate. I do need to get a handle on them both though. Sometimes the chocolate contains soya lecithin and I ought to avoid that - actually two or three squares of that sometimes makes me feel uncomfortable in the gullet area, so it's probably best avoided. The nuts I find hard to control too. One handful can easily turn into four or five....

    I am sure if I could have fruit and honey, I would feel far less deprived and wouldn't need to turn to the choc and nuts. For those without Diabetes, the options are far easier.

    For drinks, I don't drink much water these days (I did do the 2 litres a day at one point but it didn't help so I stopped). I have a couple cups of milky coffee, usually unsweetened, or Redbush and Vanilla tea with milk (also unsweetened) - Probably 3 cups of either, max per day). Occasionally I might have an herb tea of some kind - chamomile or mint, etc. I have the liquid in the soup, but other than that I have never been an avid drinker. I don't drink alcohol. Probably because of Candida, etc., I have never been able to process it very well, and even a small amount will tend to make me cough.

    If I thought eating lots of sugar would cure the diabetes, I'd be very willing to have a go, but it's how to prevent my blood sugar going through the roof in the meantime!

    One thing I don't get, is that many people on the Peat diet seem to consume a fair bit of processed sugar. Surely, it's nutritionally 'empty' sugar that is one of the biggest problems. I have come to realise that it really is ALL about nutrition, and anything we consume that doesn't give us any, or enough, is problematic in itself. Dead food has to call on the body's own limited resources to process it, and in my mind refined sugar comes in to that category. Honey is different as good honey is rich in nutrition - and can be very beneficial in small amounts, sometimes even giving us nutritional elements we can't get elsewhere.

    I haven't taken my temp as I only have one of those forehead thermometers, and my resting pulse is usually 60 bpm. It sometimes goes up during the night when my body is working hard to digest or do other things. Although not always, my hands and feet are sometimes cold.

    The low-carb diet seemed to reverse some of the 'diabetic complications' (which are, like diabetes, also nutritional deprivation issues), like the burning feet and 'gouty' toes, but it hasn't done anything to improve the blood sugar control and seems to have made it worse. Although I had never had that problem before - quite the opposite in fact, I have also (unusually) been constipated all through the low-carb, high-fat diet. Adding in the green veg - especially on the days I have my beloved green soup - does seem to have helped that a lot.
     
  6. Jenn

    Jenn Member

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    Nuts are actually mostly STARCH...and fat. You maybe trying to get glucose when you are craving/eating nuts.
     
  7. Ingenol

    Ingenol Member

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    Here you seem to be roughly equating nutrition and micronutrients, which is not at all the case. Refined sugar is rich in fructose, which helps promote oxidative metabolism, even in diabetics since it can enter the metabolic pathway independent of the action of insulin. In this way sugar can be extremely nutritious and protective. That you consider refined sugar to be "dead food" is likely a result of prior prejudices and anti-sugar campaigns.

    Also, although it's tough to tell from your diet summary, it seems like you're probably getting quite a bit of PUFA from all the chicken, ham and nuts. What kind of fish do you eat? If it's ever fatty fish then that's a lot of PUFA there as well.
     
  8. OP
    Alibaba

    Alibaba Member

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    Well, yes, probably. I wasn't thinking of it as being useful from the fructose point of view. It strikes me though that there are probably a lot of factors that are creating the health issues, not just PUFAs.

    Even when I did, and was able to eat sugar, I always felt that sugar was preferable to sweeteners. They seemed like a step too far. I never did get on the 'fat is bad for you' bandwagon and never stopped using butter, but I did use PU oils for frying, etc. Haven't used them now for at least 5 years.

    We probably have chicken once a week, pork once or twice a week, white and/or oily fish once a week, seafood once a week. Last night we had roast lamb, tonight we had a cheese and mushroom omelette with prawns (shrimp). I often don't eat my eggs and/or green soup until lunchtime or late morning so don't have ham every day, and then it's only quite a small amount, maybe one slice or less if it's a large one. I tend to buy good ham rather than the processed stuff. I also like brawn - in chunks with gelatin. Sometimes I have cheese and pate. Yesterday I had a tuna salad.

    Although I appreciate the PUFAs are a problem - and the low-carb healing diet I have been following is also anti-PU oils, I am more keen to understand what to do with the sugars in view of the Diabetes and what dietary protocol would help. Any help with that would be very welcome.
     
  9. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    When Ray Peat talks about sugar he mostly means it is either fruit sugar ( sucrose and fructose) or milk sugar ( lactose).
    Sweet ripe fruits are the ideal source of sugar. Lactose also has many health benefits. One can consume pure sucrose as supplement, since it is free of allergen. Honey and unripe fruits can have allergenic compounds So adding 1 tbs of sucrose in a glass of milk or OJ will not be problematic,you are getting potassium, magnesium and other nutrients to handle the sugar.
     
  10. j.

    j. Guest

    Ray Peat thinks that consumption of PUFAs is the best documented cause of diabetes.
     
  11. j.

    j. Guest

    I wouldn't have chicken or pork at all, too much PUFA, unless you live in Thailand where the pork nutrition has very little PUFA. I suggest reducing chicken or pork to at most once very 10 days, Peat mentioned this frequency. Regarding fish, I would only eat non fatty fish, so no salmon, foe example.
     
  12. j.

    j. Guest

    There are ways to eat sugar that release less insulin. For example, the potassium has an insulin-like action, so the sugar from the orange is processed with less insulin than say, pure glucose. Orange also has fructose which I think is also better for a diabetic.
     
  13. j.

    j. Guest

    I would make sure the pate doesn't have pork fat, which is high in PUFA. If I can't find a pate low in PUFA, I just eat beef liver.
     
  14. j.

    j. Guest

    It's only a problem if you have a nutrient deficient diet. If one eats nutrient dense foods, such as liver once a week, milk, orange juice, and eggs, it's not going to deplete the nutrients.
     
  15. Beebop

    Beebop Member

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    Regarding nuts and sugar cravings. When I tried a no-carb diet I was eating nuts at the time, and to satiate my cravings I would eat almost a whole kilo of nuts in one sitting. This is a very expensive way to eat! :lol:

    I got sick of the nuts and thankfully the no-carb diet didn't last long. So I agree with Jenn, the cravings for pistachios are probably your body's way of getting carbs in.

    Good luck with your healing!
     
  16. OP
    Alibaba

    Alibaba Member

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    So, if I can't have pork, or chicken, or ham, or fatty fish, am I limited to beef, lamb, liver, white fish, cheese and eggs to get my 100gms of protein from per day? I love lamb, I can't digest beef very well, I barely tolerate liver, white fish is ok with enough sauce or butter to help it go down. Cheese is ok - I like Brie and cheeses like Jarlsberg, Gouda, Emmental, etc., and I already eat at least 2 eggs per day.

    Is there a list anywhere of the proper foods to eat? Is there any specific advice anywhere for those with diabetes following this protocol? I can't seem to find anything laid out simply.

    I found a list somewhere of low PUFA foods but the only veg mentioned was carrots, potatoes, yams and beets, all of which are starchy and tend to raise my blood sugar. I presume other veg is ok. Fruits were mentioned, but grapefruit should be avoided, berries because of the pips, bananas (too high in starch?), and poorly-ripened fruit (how would I know?). It's a lot to get your head around, so a list and instructions would be helpful. Have I missed it?
     
  17. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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  18. j.

    j. Guest

    What's wrong with ham?
     
  19. j.

    j. Guest

    You can also eat gelatin, or gelatin powder or capsules. Regarding the meat, prioritize gelatinous cuts, such as oxtail and shanks.

    80 grams of protein per day is the recommendation for a person of average size with normal metabolism. When I was transitioning into the diet, I didn't force myself to achieve high protein numbers, I just ate whatever felt comfortable and gradually I made it to about 80 or more.

    Does the raw carrot on an empty stomach also increase your blood sugar?

    The best fruits are OJ, grapes, and watermelons. What I actually do in practice is try eating those fruits, but I can't always get them, so I eat whatever doesn't make me feel bad. I've been eating a lot of peaches lately and a bit of bananas.
     
  20. j.

    j. Guest

    I think they're ok if you cook them.
     
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