How To Transition And Avoid Diabetes Or Can A Diabetic The Ray Peat Way?

Sharbysyd

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I wasn't sure whether to put this under diet or blood sugar.

I'm trying to transition to Ray Peat from Low Carb. Before doing low carb, I had some higher fasting glucose levels (a little over 100) and my practitioner had mentioned metabolic syndrome.

I now want to transition to Ray Peat and be careful to not get diabetes. I've been doing a slow transition. Eating a raw carrot each day, drinking a little bit of milk and small bits of fruit and trying to cut out pufas as much as possible.

My two questions:

How would someone transition to avoid diabetes?
Can a diabetic eat the Ray Peat way?

Thank you.
 

Zigzag

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I'm really confused at this point. Almost every post in this forums about carbs and diabetes has a solid background to be true. But at the same time it's the only place in the Internet that actually preaches it. In every other place it's: "IF", "Keto", "Ultra low carb", "Zero carb". I'm at the same spot, a little bit over 100 fbg but I don't want to worsen my state.
 
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I'm really confused at this point. Almost every post in this forums about carbs and diabetes has a solid background to be true. But at the same time it's the only place in the Internet that actually preaches it. In every other place it's: "IF", "Keto", "Ultra low carb", "Zero carb". I'm at the same spot, a little bit over 100 fbg but I don't want to worsen my state.

read Dr. Peat on the Randle Cycle
Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Insulin is important in the regulation of blood sugar, but its importance has been exaggerated because of the diabetes/insulin industry. Insulin itself has been found to account for only about 8% of the "insulin-like activity" of the blood, with potassium being probably the largest factor. There probably isn't any process in the body that doesn't potentially affect blood sugar.

...

The diabetic condition is similar in many ways to stress, inflammation, and aging, for example in the chronic elevation of free fatty acids, and in various mediators of inflammation, such as tumor necrosis factor (TNF).

...

A repeated small stress, or overstimulation of insulin secretion, gradually tends to become amplified by the effects of tryptophan and the polyunsaturated fatty acids, with these fats increasing the formation of serotonin, and serotonin increasing the liberation of the fats.

The name, “glycation,” indicates the addition of sugar groups to proteins, such as occurs in diabetes and old age, but when tested in a controlled experiment, lipid peroxidation of polyunsaturated fatty acids produces the protein damage about 23 times faster than the simple sugars do (Fu, et al., 1996). And the oxidation of fats rather than glucose means that the proteins won't have as much protective carbon dioxide combined with their reactive nitrogen atoms, so the real difference in the organism is likely to be greater than that seen by Fu, et al.

...
Sugar and thyroid hormone (T3, triiodothyronine) correct many parts of the problem. The conversion of T4 into the active T3 requires glucose, and in diabetes, cells are deprived of glucose. Logically, all diabetics would be functionally hypothyroid. Providing T3 and sugar tends to shift energy metabolism away from the oxidation of fats, back to the oxidation of sugar.

Niacinamide, used in moderate doses, can safely help to restrain the excessive production of free fatty acids, and also helps to limit the wasteful conversion of glucose into fat. There is evidence that diabetics are chronically deficient in niacin. Excess fatty acids in the blood probably divert tryptophan from niacin synthesis into serotonin synthesis.

---

If you minimize PUFA fats, you will slowly burn off the PUFAs stored in fat cells and tissues. The PUFAs when released into the bloodstream kill cells such as the beta cells (and Leydig cells in men.)

Diabetes involves burning fat, not sugar. Minimizing all fats helps the body kick start into burning sugar.

Prediabetics will not become diabetics and diabetics can become symptom free by avoiding fat and eating high carb diets, especially high in sugar rather than starch (which produce bad endotoxins in the bowel.)
 
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and yes, B vitamins can be awesomely important. As Dr. Peat indicates, niacinamide can inhibit fat burning just on its own. Probably the other B vitamins are important.

Dr. Peat often has described his father's cure of diabetes using nothing but brewer's yeast for a few weeks. Presumably because of the B vitamins and despite the high phosphorous and estrogen in the yeast.
 

Zigzag

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If you minimize PUFA fats, you will slowly burn off the PUFAs stored in fat cells and tissues. The PUFAs when released into the bloodstream kill cells such as the beta cells (and Leydig cells in men.)

So if I begin losing weight, I'll have PUFAs released into bloodstream which will cause damage, right?
 

aquaman

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Slowly slowly slowly increase carbs.

If you are utilising fat, you will not be able to metabolise much carbs to start.
 

Zigzag

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I understand, but I'm in need of losing weight. But want to maintain health at the same time.
 

schultz

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I'm really confused at this point. Almost every post in this forums about carbs and diabetes has a solid background to be true. But at the same time it's the only place in the Internet that actually preaches it. In every other place it's: "IF", "Keto", "Ultra low carb", "Zero carb". I'm at the same spot, a little bit over 100 fbg but I don't want to worsen my state.

If you jack up your carbs right now after being on a high fat/low carb diet your blood sugar will probably sky rocket (whether the sugar itself is causing damage when it's high in the blood is debatable IMO, but you mentioned you wanted to avoid it none-the-less). If you were to feed somebody a high fat diet (let's say 50%+ calories from fat) for a few weeks and them give them a glucose tolerance test they would probably be considered diabetic.

Five days of eating fatty foods can alter how your body's muscle processes food

This study (Corn Oil in Treatment of Ischaemic Heart Disease) from the 60's did this little experiment where they had 3 groups, 1 was a control and the other two were given 80g of oil a day. 1 group got olive oil and the other got corn oil. The study was supposed to be about heart disease but there is a little comment in the article about diabetes...

"Four patients were removed from the trial for other reasons. Two developed non-cardiac thromboembolism and were given anti-coagulant therapy. The other two were removed because of diabetes mellitus. One of them already had mild diabetes, but glycosuria increased considerably soon after he started the oil. Oil was stopped and glycosuria disappeared. Oil was restarted, but stopped a month later because heavy glycosuria recurred. The other patient, not a previously recognized diabetic, developed glycosuria with a diabetic glucose-tolerance test a few weeks after starting oil"

I love the summary too...

"Eighty patients with ischaemic heart disease were allocated randomly to three treatment groups. The first was a control group. The second received a supplement of olive oil with restriction of animal fat. The third received corn oil with restriction of animal fat. The serum-cholesterol levels fell in the corn-oil group, but by the end of two years the proportions of patients remaining alive and free of reinfarction (fatal or non-fatal) were 75 %, 57 %, and 52% in the three groups respectively. The likelihood that the worse experience of the patients treated with corn oil was due to chance alone was 0.05-0.1. The likelihood that the trial failed by chance to detect a true and important benefit from corn oil was extremely remote. It is concluded that under the circumstances of this trial corn oil cannot be recommended in the treatment of ischaemic heart disease."

This study was done in the 60's, but it didn't stop corn oil from having a label declaring it "heart healthy".

85879_web.jpg
 
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Blood sugar increases for a short time when you go high carb. Then it settles down. I don’t see that as a problem.
 

Terma

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Take 2-3g Taurine/day for a few weeks or even months (then have at least 1 nutritious meal/day where you don't take it). If you do it too long you'll find you need some beta-alanine too. (Some people can't do these because of the GABAA-/glycine-like effects). I did super bad obesity, high carb and fat (including PUFA) with no diabetes or glucose regulation problems this way. Taurine sacrificially prevents glycation damage, and fatty liver. For this it's not equivalent to TUDCA (something else you might like eventually).

DON'T overdo B3, don't take it every day unless your kidneys are already in a bad way where you have to adjust all this anyway (I swear to god if I don't write this, you're gonna do it). Taurine and beta-alanine will give you a portion of that benzo-like feeling anyway.
 
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Zigzag

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Take 2-3g Taurine/day for a few weeks or even months (then have at least 1 nutritious meal/day where you don't take it). If you do it too long you'll find you need some beta-alanine too. (Some people can't do these because of the GABAA-/glycine-like effects). I did super bad obesity, high carb and fat (including PUFA) with no diabetes or glucose regulation problems this way. Taurine sacrificially prevents glycation damage, and fatty liver. For this it's not equivalent to TUDCA (something else you might like eventually).

DON'T overdo B3, don't take it every day unless your kidneys are already in a bad way where you have to adjust all this anyway (I swear to god if I don't write this, you're gonna do it). Taurine and beta-alanine will give you a portion of that benzo-like feeling anyway.

I was in the middle of ordering b3... Thanks :)
 
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In my experience, magnesium supplementation helps a lot, as well as vitamin B1 and potassium. Prioritizing sweet ripe fruit is important if you don't want to take a lot of supplements, which you have to do if you use a lot of white sugar, but sometimes getting enough sugar just from fruit can be tough, so it's probably important to use some white sugar daily to meet carbohydrate requirements, as well as caloric requirement. Keeping starch low is important. I remember I didn't tolerate starch at all before, when I wasn't ingesting very much sucrose. Other members have given very useful advice.
 

Terma

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I know. ;) Seriously just look at RP's own replies in the emails, people tell him they're taking 300+mg/day or something and he says roughly, "Why are you doing this?" It's great for low protein, rarely necessary on high protein.

Actually very good point the sufficient magnesium is very important, I supplemented this non-stop for 5 years now, I take it for granted (potassium a little as well, but foods can cover enough) and RP just eschews it for some reason. Part of Taurine's effects are from magnesium.

[Given all the variables you probably need extra magnesium on high protein, e.g.:]
Sci-Hub | Magnesium Absorption: Mechanisms and the Influence of Vitamin D, Calcium and Phosphate. The Journal of Nutrition, 121(1), 13–23 | 10.1093/jn/121.1.13
Increased P in the diet has been reported to depress Mg absorption, presumably by complexing with Mg to form an insoluble salt. O'Dell et al. (58) showed that increased dietary P even more than Ca, increased the Mg requirement for maximal growth in both the guinea pig and the rat. Toothill (59) observed a significant decrease in Mg absorption when P was increased from 0.39 to 0.79% in 10-wk-old rats. This decrease was further reduced when both Ca and P were increased in the diet.
 
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I know. ;) Seriously just look at RP's own replies in the emails, people tell him they're taking 300+mg/day or something and he says roughly, "Why are you doing this?" It's great for low protein, rarely necessary on high protein.
That is because tryptophan can turn into vitamin B3, right? High protein normally means high tryptophan, especially if the source of protein isn't beef or fruit.
 

Terma

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Even without it many high protein foods provide enough. Anyone (without certain conditions) coming from muscle meat or fish consumption (and fortified foods) had enough already, people take those 500mg niacinamide pills getting benzo-like agonism mistaking pharmacological effects for something natural, which then delays them from seeking better solutions. You can spot this from a mile away.

Age-old site: vitamin B3 - niacin

(It still has some perfectly valid uses for people without specific conditions or conditions it could aggravate: topical niacinamide for skin health, anecdotally improving the high from recreational drugs like THC may work, etc.)
 
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Mary Lyn

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I wasn't sure whether to put this under diet or blood sugar.

I'm trying to transition to Ray Peat from Low Carb. Before doing low carb, I had some higher fasting glucose levels (a little over 100) and my practitioner had mentioned metabolic syndrome.

I now want to transition to Ray Peat and be careful to not get diabetes. I've been doing a slow transition. Eating a raw carrot each day, drinking a little bit of milk and small bits of fruit and trying to cut out pufas as much as possible.

My two questions:

How would someone transition to avoid diabetes?
Can a diabetic eat the Ray Peat way?

Thank you.

Hello, and the same to everyone here. I will get around to adding an introduction as soon as I can.

I was on the AIP high fat low carb diet for 18 months and it was bad for me. I ended up with insulin resistence, gall bladder attacks, weight gain and pancreatitis, the last one could have killed me.

So I joined the iThrive Facebook community on the whole food plant based no oil sugar or salt, to reverse diabetes and obesity and transistioned quickly and it had very good benefits, as it does with just about everyone who tries it with some spectacular weight losses.. See Jon MacMahon. Most are able to that diet and see their HbA1c come down though it might go up at first. Mine went down to 5.8.

However, my thyroid started to struggle (Hashis) and so I began to look for an answer and found Peat. I have tried adding milk and cheese but that did not seem suitable, though orange juice has been good. Weight loss is important for my body I think so I am going to continue on the WFPB diet, adding in some animal fat and liver, as I now believe that it is PUFA's that cause the damage which were thankfully reduced on that diet and probably the reason for its success rather than veganism.

I took note of what Peat says about endocrine disruptors and have stopped anything touching my skin that is not 100% natural. My temperature has gone up as I am feeling warmer.

I would just listen to your body and continue to do things slowly and perhaps try to get your BS down on the diet I am following as it has a high rate of success before moving towards Peating..
 

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