Low Ferritin, High Iron Saturation Dilemma

[jbee]

Hey there,

So I am in a bit of a catch-22 it seems. 3 months ago I was put on Ferrex 150 by my dermatologist because my ferritin levels were at 20 (which ideally should be 50-70). 1-2 months later I was tested and my ferritin levels were at 26 but my iron saturation was at 58%. I recently got tested and after not taking my iron supplements for 2 weeks and my ferritin is at 27 and saturation at 48% now. I know Peat is against Iron and thinks ferritin is the wrong way to test iron levels, but it seems that after taking it for a little bit it did wonders, but as soon as the saturation levels exceeded normal range, the benefits were lost. Is there a way of increasing ferritin levels without increasing saturation? My hair is not growing at all, neither are my nails, and if it were true that Saturation accurately measured iron stores, I think I'd have quite long luminous hair and strong healthy nails.

I'm not sure why Peat is so against ferritin as testing, as it measures iron in your cells, whereas saturation is just the iron floating in your blood.

I would love some of your input. This is all a nightmare to me as either way it seems I'm aging quite rapidly. Thanks!

 

[Mittir]

To measure your total iron storage you need both Ferritin and Transferrin saturation index.
RP is not alone in this. Ferritin is less reliable than Transferrin SI, because infection,inflammation and some diseases can increase Ferritin when iron index is low.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferritin
SI also can give false high and low.
A good doctor will test both to identify iron deficiency. You did not mentioned if you tested
your saturation index before supplementing with iron. Hypothyroidism can cause
anemia even when someone has sufficient iron.
RP explains here how iron and arsenic improve anemia.

Q: Don't you need iron supplements if you are anemic?

In general, no.

Many doctors think of anemia as necessarily indicating an iron deficiency, but that isn't correct. 100 years ago, it was customary to prescribe arsenic for anemia, and it worked to stimulate the formation of more red blood cells. The fact that arsenic, or iron, or other toxic material stimulates the formation of red blood cells doesn't indicate a "deficiency" of the toxin, but simply indicates that the body responds to a variety of harmful factors by speeding its production of blood cells. Even radiation can have this kind of stimulating effect, because growth is a natural reaction to injury. Between 1920 and 1950, it was common to think of "nutritional growth factors" as being the same as vitamins, but since then it has become common to use known toxins to stimulate the growth of farm animals, and as a result, it has been more difficult to define the essential nutrients. The optimal nutritional intake is now more often considered in terms of resistance to disease, longevity or rate of aging, and even mental ability.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml

 

[unexamined_whimsy]

I wrote Ray once about a friend having from low ferritin levels. He said that both high and low ferritin result from poor thyroid function. Sure enough, this person took thyroid and her ferritin increased to normal. Apart from frank iron deficiency, it appears that low ferritin can occur in people with poor conversion of T4 to active-T3.

"Similarly, serum ferritin levels increased in all 12 hypothyroid patients with Hashimoto's disease when euthyroidism was achieved with L-T4 therapy. Administration of 75 micrograms T3 daily for 1 week to 11 euthyroid subjects resulted in a 23-243% (mean +/- SD, 117 +/- 70%) increase in serum ferritin above basal values."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4031012

 

[jbee]

Thanks for the responses -

I do indeed have hypothyroidism, in which I take Synthroid 50mg every morning. I was diagnosed when I was 24, right after having had fat atrophy on my hips caused by the result of a falsely-marketed "skin-tightening" procedure. I believe this not only caused my hypothyroidism due to metabolic changes, but it also did something to my ability to store nutrients, including iron. It bewilders me how much negligence the American scientific and medical community has committed with regards to the study of fat cells and their importance.

As of now, my T4 and TSH are in normal range, but I haven't had my T3 checked in a while.

@ Mittir - if my ferritin is falsely high anyway, then it would most definitely mean I am low in iron. I'm confused as what RP says in terms of increasing ferritin, or having it at an optimal range. Is he saying we don't need to supplement but instead we can just eat a diet high in iron-rich foods?

 

[Mittir]

@Jbee
You are using T4 only ( Synthroid), which lowers TSH and increases T4.
But T3 is the active form of thyroid. Liver needs to convert T4 into T3.
If this conversion does not happen then the person will have normal TSH, T4
but their active thyroid hormone T3 will be low,that will cause hythyroidism.
In some cases total T3 is normal but reverse T3 is high,which also result in hypo state.
It is essential to measure total T3 and if possible reverse T3
to know if thyroid is really working properly . Ray Peat commented that
female liver is less efficient in converting T4 to T3. Our thyroid produces
both T4 and T3 in ratio of 4:1. It would be a good idea for you to measure your
total T3 and talk to your doctor about getting a mixture of T4 and T3.
Here is a link to active thread of T4 and T3
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2724&start=10#p32880
Measuring body temperature and pulse 2 hours after breakfast gives a good idea about
thyroid status.

In most healthy people Ferritin and Transferrin Saturation are reflective of each other.
If Ferritin is low then Transferrin Saturation is low and same the other way.
But people with infection,inflammation and hypothyroidism can have high Ferritin
with low Transferrin saturation . Hypothyroid also causes Ferritin to be low
while saturation index is high. RP explained that during infection and inflammation
body increases storage of iron in Ferritin form to lower oxidative damage.
Transferrin saturation is quite stable compare to Ferritin, Vitamin C supplementation or
use of estrogen can increase Transferrin saturation index. I am not sure if it is a false
high or it simply increases serum iron content. A doctor can know for sure if your iron storage is low or high by using these two test together. You did not mention if your doctor did both
test before prescribing you iron supplementation.

 

[jbee]

Thank you Mittir. Very well explained.
I'll take the tests soon to find out what my situation is. Are you suggesting that if my F is higher than TS, then that means that I have some sort of hidden disease or what not? What else would be causing such inflammation?
I tried taking Vitamin C with the iron supplements and that actually caused major problems. I've never seen myself age so rapidly. Supposedly high doses of Vitamin C can become pro-oxidant, and in combination with iron, it becomes a toxic duo. Wish I had known that earlier.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340385/

If you have a suggestion for reversing oxidative damage, please do let me know as well.

 

[HDD]

jbee, there is some good information about iron in this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1995

 

[agentspygirl]

Hi,

Last year my iron saturation was 61% and my ferritin 26 when I went to a local doctor ( not my family doctor) when I had a bad chest pain. She told me it was nothing and it must had been something I ate??? Well after reading a lot and noticing I had a infected hang nail and and small scab on my scalp that got infected too and made my lymph glands swollen on one side of my head, I decided to investigate a bit. I had my dna sequenced since I had not be feeling well for a year or so. Not to mention I had thrush on my tongue for about a year and thought it was due to perimenopause burning tongue etc. Once completing a long period of studying my dna I had seen many times that I have a folate Deficiency which causes Megaloblastic Anemia it is a DHFR Mutation. After getting a prescription for the thrush and taking B6-B12 and 400 mg folate daily after about 6 months I feel much much better!!! No napping during the day, no infections, no headaches, ringing ears . For me a diet with folate alone will not increase my folate due to hereditary bowel disorders so I take it in a vitamin form and hope that I will get some of the folate. I went back to the doctor approximately after the 6 months and got re test for vitamin B 12. My old report was 201pmol/L for B12 and the range in Canada is 175-880 which the doctor didn't mention anything about and the 6 months later the report was 264 pmol/L then 3 months after that 303pmol/L so much better. B12 helps folate work together that is why I take them in a vitamin form which contains both and B6. I actually don't know my folate levels as I have never been tested for folate through blood tests, but a indication of my levels would be through B12 I figured so at that point it couldn't hurt. I could only feel better!!! Anyways sorry to go on but anyone suffering with some signs that I had, check your B 12 level and iron there may be a correlation which them and folate. Good Luck

 

[bohogirl]

I have low ferritin, higher iron Saturation, and higher serum iron. Not sure what it means either.

I did read on another forum that iodine helped to normalize iron levels.

My tsh is 2.8 but my antibodies are high.

 

[Matt1951]

Low ferritin is the first sign of iron deficiency. Iron is required to convert T4 to T3. Getting the ferritin to at least 50 should help with the thryoid readings.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Low ferritin is the first sign of iron deficiency. Iron is required to convert T4 to T3. Getting the ferritin to at least 50 should help with the thryoid readings.

Do you have a reference for that amount? Is that based on something Peat said?

Thanks

 

[Douglas Ek]

Do you have a reference for that amount? Is that based on something Peat said?

Thanks

https://www.ejmanager.com/fulltextpdf.php?mno=178386

Serum ferritin as a marker of thyroid hormone action on peripheral tissues. - PubMed - NCBI

Evaluation of serum ferritin and thyroid function in the second trimester of pregnancy. - PubMed - NCBI

Iron deficiency may explain persistent hypothyroidism symptoms

The relation between serum ferritin and goiter, urinary iodine and thyroid hormone concentration. - PubMed - NCBI

The Relationship between Iron Deficiency and Thyroid Function in Chinese Women during Early Pregnancy. - PubMed - NCBI

The relationship between iron status and thyroid hormone concentration in iron-deficient adolescent Iranian girls. - PubMed - NCBI

At least there seems to be an association

 

[eimearrose]

Ferritin is just a protein that binds iron to make it less reactive. It's called apoferritin when no iron is bound. If you quickly get iron saturated on iron pills but ferritin doesn't rise much, then the problem isn't enough iron, it's a problem with your (apo) ferritin production. I would suspect hypothyroidism and especially a sluggish liver.