Microneedling Photo Results Summary, Incredible Thread

[mipp]

If it’s skull expansion. Explain how some guys were like norwood 4 and then went to norwood 1 after hrt for a sex change. You saying their hormones shrink their head. I used to believe in the skull theory until I went out and say soooo many dudes with different shapes heads and not one of them was immune from balding. Even looked at photos of skulls that were small and weren’t balding only to find the same shape on another balding

Of all these alternative theories skull shape/expansion is the only one that makes sense to me and it explains why women and some guys don't experience male pattern hair loss. From my observation skull shape is a good predictor. Guys with big heads, broad sloping forheads almost always are in some stage of mbp. In contrast, those with small heads, low and steep "feminine" forheads and flat top rarely experience any hairloss at all. If they have intact hairline in their late teens they will likely keep their hair. There are exceptions of course. I knew two guys who had small heads and went bald. In both cases their hair loss was aggressive and they were almost completely bald by mid 20s. So this could be a different autoimmune process with acute inflammation. Big headed guys on the other hand usually go through all norwood stages more slowly and this could be explained by the reduced blood flow theory due to the dome shape. Androgens are involved in all scenarios either way that's why hrt may halt or even reverse hair loss in some casese.

 

[lampofred]

This is excellent information man. I actually think you might be right about this. I probably have too much DHEA. How do I increase my progesterone? I kind of want to avoid taking thyroid medication.

I really appreciate your help

Coffee, aspirin, low-fat diet, getting your carbs from sucrose rather than starch, keeping phosphate lower than calcium, eating high animal protein daily, avoiding PUFA are low stress ways to do it I think.

Doing NoFap, avoiding alcohol, and if you really want to go all-out, listening to less music are a bit more stressful but very helpful in the beginning when you need to do everything you can to reverse hair loss.

Decreasing DHEA will raise cortisol, increasing CO2 and hypoventilating and keeping your mind blank will reduce cortisol until your pregnenolone and progesterone production is back on track to reduce the need for cortisol.

 

[lampofred]

Of all these alternative theories skull shape/expansion is the only one that makes sense to me and it explains why women and some guys don't experience male pattern hair loss. From my observation skull shape is a good predictor. Guys with big heads, broad sloping forheads almost always are in some stage of mbp. In contrast, those with small heads, low and steep "feminine" forheads and flat top rarely experience any hairloss at all. If they have intact hairline in their late teens they will likely keep their hair. There are exceptions of course. I knew two guys who had small heads and went bald. In both cases their hair loss was aggressive and they were almost completely bald by mid 20s. So this could be a different autoimmune process with acute inflammation. Big headed guys on the other hand usually go through all norwood stages more slowly and this could be explained by the reduced blood flow theory due to the dome shape. Androgens are involved in all scenarios either way that's why hrt may halt or even reverse hair loss in some casese.

How do you know it's the skull shape that causes hair loss and not that the same hormones that cause hair loss also cause the change in skull shape?

 

[mipp]

How do you know it's the skull shape that causes hair loss and not that the same hormones that cause hair loss also cause the change in skull shape?

Hormones obviously influence skull size and shape and I think it happens much earlier than mbp even before puberty. Sometimes you can see young boys with fairly big skulls and mature hairlines even though it's not mbp yet, it's almost a sure bet they will be affected by it later. Hard to say how much of it is genetics as inherited skull shape and how much the influence of androgens, perhpas while still in the womb. But you never see yong girls with such skulls and hair patterns, like ever. Doesn't estrogen inhibit bone growth in females so that they retain neotenic features like small nose, small, flat head, small childlike forhead without the brow ridge? So yes, hormones are the underlying cause and theyre also involved in the inflammatory processes later on just making things worse if you already have a dome shaped head and poor blood flow.

 

[GorillaHead]

Hormones obviously influence skull size and shape and I think it happens much earlier than mbp even before puberty. Sometimes you can see young boys with fairly big skulls and mature hairlines even though it's not mbp yet, it's almost a sure bet they will be affected by it later. Hard to say how much of it is genetics as inherited skull shape and how much the influence of androgens, perhpas while still in the womb. But you never see yong girls with such skulls and hair patterns, like ever. Doesn't estrogen inhibit bone growth in females so that they retain neotenic features like small nose, small, flat head, small childlike forhead without the brow ridge? So yes, hormones are the underlying cause and theyre also involved in the inflammatory processes later on just making things worse if you already have a dome shaped head and poor blood flow.

Still would like to hear an explanation on how babies have hairline that form starting out like mpb. Or the fact people with minoxidil grow hair it can’t temporarily shrink the skull. If it is the skull it would be by far One of the worst things ever in terms of finding a cure.

But to further ask why skull expansion? The skin would just stretch over the skull like it does when you get fatter as the skull expands. Why is histamine and fibrosis occurring in the skin tissue surround follicle. I also read a study once that showed removing a miniaturizing hair and placing it on another location on the body and it still shrank.

Or explain why hair loss occurs on the nape not even the skull really anymore. Or an explanation for retrograde hair-loss thinning on the sides I have it.

 

[Inaut]

This guy sounds like he’s a follower of Peat. I like their herbs as well but are a little in the expensive side. Still, a quick summary about scalp fibrosis

 

[CLASH]

@mujuro
I wrote this in my post above:
“Cure= Breaking up of the fibrosis in the scalp via massage or needling + breaking up the fibrosis in the fascial lines of the body via mysofascial release + fixing the gut situation”

I dont think the fibrosis is limited to the galea. I think the fibrosis is systemic. Almost every single balding man I have seen has some sort of postural distortion. I think the fibrosis of the fascial matrix across the body leads to tightness in specific areas such as the scalp, blocking blood flood and further enhancing the fibrosis. So my recommendation for mysofascial release is for the entire body following the myosfascial lines. This had to be done once/ while the gut issue is solved or its an uphill battler. Endotoxin and bacterial endproducts are ubiquitous fibrosis inducers. The galea needs direct needling, not because it is the cause of hairloss but because the only way to break up fibrosis is to damage the tissue and allow it heal itself properly. The cause is a gut issue, the pathway of manifeststion is through the fascial system, the outcome is extreme fibrosis of the galea and subsequent hairloss. A systemic approach addressing the trigger i.e. gut bacteria is required to stop the process from progressing, myofascial work of the whole body is required to loosen the tension and microneedling or massage is required to adjust the formed fibrotic tissue.

 

[Inaut]

I would also add that I think rebounding could have profound effects on assisting the break up of fibrotic tissue in addition to massaging/needling. Gravity is a powerful force IMO

 

[mujuro]

I dont think the fibrosis is limited to the galea. I think the fibrosis is systemic. Almost every single balding man I have seen has some sort of postural distortion. I think the fibrosis of the fascial matrix across the body leads to tightness in specific areas such as the scalp, blocking blood flood and further enhancing the fibrosis. So my recommendation for mysofascial release is for the entire body following the myosfascial lines. This had to be done once/ while the gut issue is solved or its an uphill battler. Endotoxin and bacterial endproducts are ubiquitous fibrosis inducers. The galea needs direct needling, not because it is the cause of hairloss but because the only way to break up fibrosis is to damage the tissue and allow it heal itself properly. The cause is a gut issue, the pathway of manifeststion is through the fascial system, the outcome is extreme fibrosis of the galea and subsequent hairloss. A systemic approach addressing the trigger i.e. gut bacteria is required to stop the process from progressing, myofascial work of the whole body is required to loosen the tension and microneedling or massage is required to adjust the formed fibrotic tissue.

I’ve thought a lot about the systemic myofascial/tensegrity aspect involving the deep posterior fascial line, since it terminates at the back of the cranium. I did remedial massage, and still do occasionally, so naturally this holistic head-to-toe myofascial theory of balding jumped out at me. I even thought maybe the third world has less baldness because they have no phones, computers, and are generally much more active, acquiring fewer bad postural habits and placing less stress on deep fascial lines. They also are more likely to breathe diaphragmatically (vanity stops many people), and they don’t engage in recreational exercise as much since they work all day (think cycling, jogging, lifting as reinforcing bad postural patterns) except for perhaps soccer and other dynamic movements.

I’ve tried to mentally keep tabs and identify trends between posture and hairloss, both with clients and random people I see, but I’ve never been able to piece together any consistences. I’ve seen some seriously hunched, forward-head people with untouched hair, and the opposite.

 

[GorillaHead]

I’ve thought a lot about the systemic myofascial/tensegrity aspect involving the deep posterior fascial line, since it terminates at the back of the cranium. I did remedial massage, and still do occasionally, so naturally this holistic head-to-toe myofascial theory of balding jumped out at me. I even thought maybe the third world has less baldness because they have no phones, computers, and are generally much more active, acquiring fewer bad postural habits and placing less stress on deep fascial lines. They also are more likely to breathe diaphragmatically (vanity stops many people), and they don’t engage in recreational exercise as much since they work all day (think cycling, jogging, lifting as reinforcing bad postural patterns) except for perhaps soccer and other dynamic movements.

I’ve tried to mentally keep tabs and identify trends between posture and hairloss, both with clients and random people I see, but I’ve never been able to piece together any consistences. I’ve seen some seriously hunched, forward-head people with untouched hair, and the opposite.

Guys i think this is the best theory I’ve heard and summarized so far.

Androgen production cause dysregulation of sodium and potassium in the scalp possibly through androsterone Causing intercellular fluid swelling (edemas). This long terms starts to lead to fibrosis and then boom hairloss.

Honestly I just had surgery recently and they constantly had drains to reduce fluid rentention and had me compress the area. To avoid fibrosis. (Scar tissue build up).

The sides and and back probably drain better than the top and of the head due to gravity.


What y’all think?

 

[chipdouglas]

In the RPF, are there any guys with MPB who've either reversed the condition or made very significant progress ? I'm talking guys with documented before and after photos.

I'm asking the above, because many years ago I was more or less up-to-date on the theories leading to MPB, but eventually I got tired of theories and discussion around MPB, because no one seemed to be making «significant» progress.

As far as I can see, things haven't changed.

 

[Rtm320]

Still would like to hear an explanation on how babies have hairline that form starting out like mpb. Or the fact people with minoxidil grow hair it can’t temporarily shrink the skull. If it is the skull it would be by far One of the worst things ever in terms of finding a cure.

But to further ask why skull expansion? The skin would just stretch over the skull like it does when you get fatter as the skull expands. Why is histamine and fibrosis occurring in the skin tissue surround follicle. I also read a study once that showed removing a miniaturizing hair and placing it on another location on the body and it still shrank.

Or explain why hair loss occurs on the nape not even the skull really anymore. Or an explanation for retrograde hair-loss thinning on the sides I have it.

Your mention about histamine in the scalp peaked my interest, I microneedle and I always have sneezing fits while doing it.

 

[Luckytype]

Also consider some gross examples of skull exansion caused by exogenous hormone use. If you look at very competitive bodybuilders, several of the greats, during their competitive careers their skulls and faces were larger and rounder than they were 10 15 20 years later when they had stopped using all the things they were using and went back to a somewhat "normal "life. Several of them that lost their hair may not have regained it back because of the situation that was never remedied on their scalps or metabolically, but it is clear to see that there is a big influence of hormonal shift and a skull expansion.

 

[GorillaHead]

Also consider some gross examples of skull exansion caused by exogenous hormone use. If you look at very competitive bodybuilders, several of the greats, during their competitive careers their skulls and faces were larger and rounder than they were 10 15 20 years later when they had stopped using all the things they were using and went back to a somewhat "normal "life. Several of them that lost their hair may not have regained it back because of the situation that was never remedied on their scalps or metabolically, but it is clear to see that there is a big influence of hormonal shift and a skull expansion.

Skull expansion can be disproven as Cause of hair loss just belt the fact people lose hair on their nape which isn’t even on the skull anymore.

 

[Luckytype]

Skull expansion can be disproven as Cause of hair loss just belt the fact people lose hair on their nape which isn’t even on the skull anymore.

I should have clarified further. My purpose in mentioning this was to show hormones and stress cause the head to grow.

As far as defining disproof, chronic anything in a male body is enough to cause cyclic changes in several tissues. Not enough to say on several theories yet aside their concurrence.

 

[Tarmander]

You guys ever notice that homeless people tend to have full heads of hair? I saw a guy yesterday who was obviously homeless...dirty, wrinkled, very tan, bad cloths. Not sure how old he was but had a perfect hair line, completely straight across his forehead. I have not seen any bald homeless. I wonder if having the sun on your head all day makes a difference?

The only thing holding me to skull theory right now is the fact mk4 k2 seems to cause hair shedding in many people. I was hoping to use it to widen my zygotes but the hairloss thing is scary


I wanted to add I’ve been wearing the same hat for like 5-6 years and I’ve kept it on the same size fits snug. When I get a haircut it becomes to big.

If it’s not skull expansion. Maybe it’s skull remodeling. I know that the skull remodels constantly as we get older

The MK4 thing happen to me. I took Mk4 for like a year and the whole time my hair was dead and did not have much life to it. Hair line receded too.

 

[aussiebaldguy]

There was a study showing derma rolling works independent of Minoxidil..I clarified that before putting thousands of puncture woulds in my head. It had proven regrowth...not full head but working
.
A Randomized Evaluator Blinded Study of Effect of Microneedling in Androgenetic Alopecia: A Pilot Study

There is another study that isolated dermarolling as effective alone

 

[Luckytype]

The only thing holding me to skull theory right now is the fact mk4 k2 seems to cause hair shedding in many people. I was hoping to use it to widen my zygotes but the hairloss thing is scary


I wanted to add I’ve been wearing the same hat for like 5-6 years and I’ve kept it on the same size fits snug. When I get a haircut it becomes to big.

If it’s not skull expansion. Maybe it’s skull remodeling. I know that the skull remodels constantly as we get older

Zygotes are cells, post fertilization.

Do you mean zygomas? As in your cheekbones?

 

[GorillaHead]

Zygotes are cells, post fertilization.

Do you mean zygomas? As in your cheekbones?

Yes. Lol. My bad

 

[GorillaHead]

Any other inputs on hairloss folks?