Microneedling Photo Results Summary, Incredible Thread

[LiveWire]

Peat mentioned someone who was bald but burned their head and regrew their hair.

I think this idea has merit

This warrants a new thread. What degree burn should one aim for?

 

[Peater]

This warrants a new thread. What degree burn should one aim for?

Side burns of course

 

[TripleOG]

Derma Pen Works For Hairloss

 

[mujuro]

for the low testosteron man, can i use topical dht/proviron for hair, all of forum people say the estrogen is bad. i wonder it

Serotonin is bad too, a driver of fibrotic changes in psoriasis and scleroderma. My scalp always, ALWAYS feels better on metergoline.

I honestly believe skull expansion and tissue tension is the main driver. I think all the serotonin and E2 in the world wouldn't make you bald unless you had the necessary skull shape. How and why the skull expands I don't know, but many anxious people are afflicted with MPB. Maybe excessive sympathetic activity and bad CO2 metabolism is the driver of maladaptive bone resorption and reformation.

Fibroblasts in fascia are extremely sensitive to mechanical tension. The fibroblasts contained in the fascia, once under mechanical tension, will undergo morphological changes, adopting a stretched cell body to accommodate the directional forces being applied, and if the mechanical load is removed they revert to their normal shape. Elasticity in the direction of force application diminishes. Try this yourself. Find a tight spot on your scalp with your fingers. Move it left to right. Then back and forward. It should have moved easier one way than the other. This restriction of space limits the flow of ground substance in and around the fascial tissues. Furthermore, the tension disrupts collagen homeostasis in fibroblasts and larger hyaluronans are broken down into short-chain inflammatory hyaluronans. Changes in tension alter b-catenin expression, and in Dupuytren's contracture, the exact opposite happens, where heritable, genetically-driven changes in b-catenin expression produce tight, cord-like fibrotic scars on the palmar surface.

Tension is a stressor. The fascia can be solid or a semi-viscous gel, and mechanical manipulation can change it from the former to the latter. Remedial massage therapists are very familiar with this dualistic quality of fascia. Muscles under chronic tension often produce knobbly, bumpy, painful adhesions at muscle attachments. Some are so bad that it feels like little grapes under your fingers, and indeed the fibrotic changes in conditions like scleroderma can produce "stone-like" scars.
Why this happens on the scalp is easy. There is no other place on our body with the skin pulled so tight, for so long, over such a rounded surface. Males and females can have drastically different cranial topographies. Males differ from females in two ways: 1) their whole-body fascia is thinner and there is much greater variation between males i.e. one male can have thin fascia, another very thick, whereas females have greater average fascia thickness and there is less variation between them, and 2) (this is my conjecture now) the skull topographies between individual males can differ dramatically, producing different and sometimes odd balding patterns between males, whilst female skull topographies, like the fascial thickness, seem to be less varied and FPB presents in a more consistent pattern.

I'm coming down off my coffee now.

 

[CLASH]

My current theory:

Baldness= predisposed fibrosis of the scalp and other connective tissues induced by bacterial issues in the intestine.

Cure= Breaking up of the fibrosis in the scalp via massage or needling + breaking up the fibrosis in the fascial lines of the body via mysofascial release + fixing the gut situation

 

[GorillaHead]

Serotonin is bad too, a driver of fibrotic changes in psoriasis and scleroderma. My scalp always, ALWAYS feels better on metergoline.

I honestly believe skull expansion and tissue tension is the main driver. I think all the serotonin and E2 in the world wouldn't make you bald unless you had the necessary skull shape. How and why the skull expands I don't know, but many anxious people are afflicted with MPB. Maybe excessive sympathetic activity and bad CO2 metabolism is the driver of maladaptive bone resorption and reformation.

Fibroblasts in fascia are extremely sensitive to mechanical tension. The fibroblasts contained in the fascia, once under mechanical tension, will undergo morphological changes, adopting a stretched cell body to accommodate the directional forces being applied, and if the mechanical load is removed they revert to their normal shape. Elasticity in the direction of force application diminishes. Try this yourself. Find a tight spot on your scalp with your fingers. Move it left to right. Then back and forward. It should have moved easier one way than the other. This restriction of space limits the flow of ground substance in and around the fascial tissues. Furthermore, the tension disrupts collagen homeostasis in fibroblasts and larger hyaluronans are broken down into short-chain inflammatory hyaluronans. Changes in tension alter b-catenin expression, and in Dupuytren's contracture, the exact opposite happens, where heritable, genetically-driven changes in b-catenin expression produce tight, cord-like fibrotic scars on the palmar surface.

Tension is a stressor. The fascia can be solid or a semi-viscous gel, and mechanical manipulation can change it from the former to the latter. Remedial massage therapists are very familiar with this dualistic quality of fascia. Muscles under chronic tension often produce knobbly, bumpy, painful adhesions at muscle attachments. Some are so bad that it feels like little grapes under your fingers, and indeed the fibrotic changes in conditions like scleroderma can produce "stone-like" scars.
Why this happens on the scalp is easy. There is no other place on our body with the skin pulled so tight, for so long, over such a rounded surface. Males and females can have drastically different cranial topographies. Males differ from females in two ways: 1) their whole-body fascia is thinner and there is much greater variation between males i.e. one male can have thin fascia, another very thick, whereas females have greater average fascia thickness and there is less variation between them, and 2) (this is my conjecture now) the skull topographies between individual males can differ dramatically, producing different and sometimes odd balding patterns between males, whilst female skull topographies, like the fascial thickness, seem to be less varied and FPB presents in a more consistent pattern.

I'm coming down off my coffee now.

If it’s skull expansion. Explain how some guys were like norwood 4 and then went to norwood 1 after hrt for a sex change. You saying their hormones shrink their head. I used to believe in the skull theory until I went out and say soooo many dudes with different shapes heads and not one of them was immune from balding. Even looked at photos of skulls that were small and weren’t balding only to find the same shape on another balding

 

[Sheik]

so you think it would be a waste of time for me to buy a dermastamp?

I think it can help reverse fibrosis, and also improve topical absorption of minoxidil.

 

[CLASH]

@GorillaHead
Your right its definetly not skull expansion. The theory is ridiculous. Its quite obvious that its a fibrotic condition of the galea aponeurotica.

 

[GorillaHead]

@GorillaHead
Your right its definetly not skull expansion. The theory is ridiculous. Its quite obvious that its a fibrotic condition of the galea aponeurotica.

I 1000% agree with this.

Also when babies are growing their hair in. It’s often growing in a male pattern shape.

A baby is basically the only human to always cure male matte baldness successfully lol. It’s like reverse mpb.

The key to why fibrosis happens and babies early hairlines are fundamental to fully solving this problem lol

 

[mujuro]

If it’s skull expansion. Explain how some guys were like norwood 4 and then went to norwood 1 after hrt for a sex change. You saying their hormones shrink their head. I used to believe in the skull theory until I went out and say soooo many dudes with different shapes heads and not one of them was immune from balding. Even looked at photos of skulls that were small and weren’t balding only to find the same shape on another balding

@GorillaHead
Your right its definetly not skull expansion. The theory is ridiculous. Its quite obvious that its a fibrotic condition of the galea aponeurotica.

I don’t have all the blanks filled in. I use “skull expansion” loosely, because I have no idea of the mechanism involved or if the mechanism involves bone at all. Maybe it only takes 1mm in each direction, or 1mm in one direction? Who knows. I have also seen different skull shapes which make me question this line of thought but that’s just more conjecture. Maybe the skull stops expanding at age 25, which makes sense, and balding just takes forever to start? We know it’s a slower process in some than in others. I don’t even know how you’d go about it, but you’d have to design an experiment where different skull topographies are tested for their capacity to induce uneven tension across a complex convex surface such as the cranium.

Have you seen women bodybuilders who use androgens? It takes some of them mere months to produce the beginnings of a norwood horseshoe pattern and enlargement of the mandible/zygomatic bone. So yes, I think androgens affect bone and anti-androgens i.e. transgender hormones, affect it negatively. The occipital region contains multiple conjoining sutures which IMO are more liable to migration or to give way to expansion, thus producing an “epicenter” of tension production, pulling the galea taught along the frontalis muscle. I was a remedial therapist and one thing I noticed was the skin around the mastoid process and the superior nuchal line in balding men was tighter and less flexible than men with good hair. I know that’s n=1 but I think the inflexibility is not localized entirelyto the galea.

And why does only the galea selectively succumb to thickening? Any aponeurosis is a tough sheet of fibroblasts and collagenous materials. I am of the opinion that the galea thickening is not unlike a thickening you would see in the thoracolumbar fascia or the plantar fascia. You could say the tension is coming from the occipitofrontalis, but just massaging those muscles alone will not reverse the thickening of the galea, and if Rob from Perfect Hair Health is right, you need to massage the entire scalp daily to reverse this aponeurotic thickening.

 

[GorillaHead]

I don’t have all the blanks filled in. I use “skull expansion” loosely, because I have no idea of the mechanism involved or if the mechanism involves bone at all. Maybe it only takes 1mm in each direction, or 1mm in one direction? Who knows. I have also seen different skull shapes which make me question this line of thought but that’s just more conjecture. Maybe the skull stops expanding at age 25, which makes sense, and balding just takes forever to start? We know it’s a slower process in some than in others. I don’t even know how you’d go about it, but you’d have to design an experiment where different skull topographies are tested for their capacity to induce uneven tension across a complex convex surface such as the cranium.

Have you seen women bodybuilders who use androgens? It takes some of them mere months to produce the beginnings of a norwood horseshoe pattern and enlargement of the mandible/zygomatic bone. So yes, I think androgens affect bone and anti-androgens i.e. transgender hormones, affect it negatively. The occipital region contains multiple conjoining sutures which IMO are more liable to migration or to give way to expansion, thus producing an “epicenter” of tension production, pulling the galea taught along the frontalis muscle. I was a remedial therapist and one thing I noticed was the skin around the mastoid process and the superior nuchal line in balding men was tighter and less flexible than men with good hair. I know that’s n=1 but I think the inflexibility is not localized entirelyto the galea.

And why does only the galea selectively succumb to thickening? Any aponeurosis is a tough sheet of fibroblasts and collagenous materials. I am of the opinion that the galea thickening is not unlike a thickening you would see in the thoracolumbar fascia or the plantar fascia. You could say the tension is coming from the occipitofrontalis, but just massaging those muscles alone will not reverse the thickening of the galea, and if Rob from Perfect Hair Health is right, you need to massage the entire scalp daily to reverse this aponeurotic thickening.

I think this information is powerful and doesn’t keep things up in the air about skull expansion.
Any thoughts on why babies often get hair in a horseshoe pattern when it comes in? Surely their skulls aren’t big enough lol

 

[GorillaHead]

I don’t have all the blanks filled in. I use “skull expansion” loosely, because I have no idea of the mechanism involved or if the mechanism involves bone at all. Maybe it only takes 1mm in each direction, or 1mm in one direction? Who knows. I have also seen different skull shapes which make me question this line of thought but that’s just more conjecture. Maybe the skull stops expanding at age 25, which makes sense, and balding just takes forever to start? We know it’s a slower process in some than in others. I don’t even know how you’d go about it, but you’d have to design an experiment where different skull topographies are tested for their capacity to induce uneven tension across a complex convex surface such as the cranium.

Have you seen women bodybuilders who use androgens? It takes some of them mere months to produce the beginnings of a norwood horseshoe pattern and enlargement of the mandible/zygomatic bone. So yes, I think androgens affect bone and anti-androgens i.e. transgender hormones, affect it negatively. The occipital region contains multiple conjoining sutures which IMO are more liable to migration or to give way to expansion, thus producing an “epicenter” of tension production, pulling the galea taught along the frontalis muscle. I was a remedial therapist and one thing I noticed was the skin around the mastoid process and the superior nuchal line in balding men was tighter and less flexible than men with good hair. I know that’s n=1 but I think the inflexibility is not localized entirelyto the galea.

And why does only the galea selectively succumb to thickening? Any aponeurosis is a tough sheet of fibroblasts and collagenous materials. I am of the opinion that the galea thickening is not unlike a thickening you would see in the thoracolumbar fascia or the plantar fascia. You could say the tension is coming from the occipitofrontalis, but just massaging those muscles alone will not reverse the thickening of the galea, and if Rob from Perfect Hair Health is right, you need to massage the entire scalp daily to reverse this aponeurotic thickening.

The only thing holding me to skull theory right now is the fact mk4 k2 seems to cause hair shedding in many people. I was hoping to use it to widen my zygotes but the hairloss thing is scary


I wanted to add I’ve been wearing the same hat for like 5-6 years and I’ve kept it on the same size fits snug. When I get a haircut it becomes to big.

If it’s not skull expansion. Maybe it’s skull remodeling. I know that the skull remodels constantly as we get older

 

[lampofred]

I 1000% agree with this.

Also when babies are growing their hair in. It’s often growing in a male pattern shape.

A baby is basically the only human to always cure male matte baldness successfully lol. It’s like reverse mpb.

The key to why fibrosis happens and babies early hairlines are fundamental to fully solving this problem lol

Peat mentions that babies are born with high iron but lose it as they grow. But then the iron starts accumulating again after puberty.

 

[GorillaHead]

Peat mentions that babies are born with high iron but lose it as they grow. But then the iron starts accumulating again after puberty.

Very interesting. Thanks for pointing this out. Might need to do research.

I wonder if iron displaces another vitamin in the body


Guys here you go
Twins Hair Loss | Stop Thinning Hair

Two guys. Identical twins. One took dutasteride the other didn’t. Their skulls look the same to me. I don’t see expansion.

However playing devils advocate it’s possible their heads are both already expanded and the dht is a reaction to that expansion which is being inhibited on one twin. Could explain why some people get rapid catch up hairloss when they get off.

But if that were the case then DHT wouldn’t be responsible for growing the skull. Could be testosterone itself but if that were the case finasteride increase testosterone so it would increase hairloss but it doesn’t. This is so perplexing -_-

Would love some input

 

[lampofred]

Very interesting. Thanks for pointing this out. Might need to do research.

I wonder if iron displaces another vitamin in the body

Yeah it displaces copper in the cytochrome oxidase c enzyme. But it's not as simple as just increasing copper intake and avoiding iron (although that will definitely help a lot), it's also a matter of getting the copper to go into the enzyme, which requires low PUFA, red light exposure, high CO2, good thyroid, the whole thing.

I think hair loss might just be a failure of progesterone production, which causes DHT to be produced in excess to protect against estrogen. Finasteride raises progesterone by preventing its conversion into 5ar derivatives and reduces excess DHT.

 

[GorillaHead]

Yeah it displaces copper in the cytochrome oxidase c enzyme. But it's not as simple as just increasing copper intake and avoiding iron (although that will definitely help a lot), it's also a matter of getting the copper to go into the enzyme, which requires low PUFA, red light exposure, high CO2, good thyroid, the whole thing.

Okay I got low pufa down. And good thyroid. Guess I need to increase copper 2mg a day and get higher c02. Any thoughts how I can do that?

 

[lampofred]

Okay I got low pufa down. And good thyroid. Guess I need to increase copper 2mg a day and get higher c02. Any thoughts how I can do that?

I think it requires having a fast metabolism so in the short run, coffee and aspirin will do it quickly. In the long run getting lots of red light/sun light, moving to a high altitude, avoiding radiation which raises metabolism in a very damaging way, and most importantly, avoiding mental stress and hyperventilation (which will drastically raise nitric oxide and lower CO2) should most likely help.

Switching your steroid pathway from going down the DHEA route to the progesterone route should also help, that's more related to NoFap/sleeping less/avoiding alcohol.

Donating blood would probably also quickly lower iron, which would make everything easier.

 

[GorillaHead]

I think it requires having a fast metabolism so in the short run, coffee and aspirin will do it quickly. In the long run getting lots of red light/sun light, moving to a high altitude, avoiding radiation which raises metabolism in a very damaging way, and most importantly, avoiding mental stress and hyperventilation (which will drastically raise nitric oxide and lower CO2) should most likely help.

Donating blood would probably also quickly lower iron.

Oh maybe I don’t need c02 then. My metabolism is insanely high. I am 5,10 and 140 pounds I can’t gain weight for the life of me. When I eat dirty and I mean like 3000 calories a day I gain weight but I still look shredded even at the age 26 almost 27.


But the iron and copper thing is really interesting as it reminds me of copper peptides back in the day when they were talked about for hairloss. It also happens to be a weak jak inhibitor I believe also found to be powerful for hairloss

But then going back to the skull thing. Look at this picture guys.

The widest foreheads are on Caucasian males and the skull is just wife in general. Hell the male Caucasian skull dwarfs all skulls

 

[lampofred]

Oh maybe I don’t need c02 then. My metabolism is insanely high. I am 5,10 and 140 pounds I can’t gain weight for the life of me. When I eat dirty and I mean like 3000 calories a day I gain weight but I still look shredded even at the age 26 almost 27.


But the iron and copper thing is really interesting as it reminds me of copper peptides back in the day when they were talked about for hairloss. It also happens to be a weak jak inhibitor I believe also found to be powerful for hairloss

Not saying this applies to you but some people I know who have trouble gaining weight aren't actually oxidizing their carbs all the way to glucose. They are either burning fat directly or converting some carbs to lactic acid and turning the rest of the carbs into fat and then burning that fat for energy. Dr. Peat has said starting thyroid often helps people who are really skinny to gain and maintain weight.

It could also be that you have too much DHEA and not enough progesterone. Progesterone is associated with magnesium which actually slows your metabolism because it is so stabilizing but also increases your energy/ATP.

I'm probably rambling a bit, but I remember the days when I was losing hair, it sucked, and since I have the knowledge know of what worked for me to stop it, I'm just trying to come up with whatever I can in case it might help you haha.

 

[GorillaHead]

Not saying this applies to you but some people I know who have trouble gaining weight aren't actually oxidizing their carbs all the way to glucose. They are either burning fat directly or converting some carbs to lactic acid and turning the rest of the carbs into fat and then burning that fat for energy. Dr. Peat has said starting thyroid often helps people who are really skinny to gain and maintain weight.

It could also be that you have too much DHEA and not enough progesterone. Progesterone is associated with magnesium which actually slows your metabolism because it is so stabilizing but also increases your energy/ATP.

I'm probably rambling a bit, but I remember the days when I was losing hair, it sucked, and since I have the knowledge know of what worked for me to stop it, I'm just trying to come up with whatever I can in case it might help you haha.

This is excellent information man. I actually think you might be right about this. I probably have too much DHEA. How do I increase my progesterone? I kind of want to avoid taking thyroid medication.

I really appreciate your help