Why Did I Lose Weight With Paleo If It Increases Cortisol?

[Peatogenic]

What would be macros in order? Much more protein?

That has to be discovered by you. Peat doesn't prescribe a high carb diet. Discovering Peat freed me from anti-carb conditioning, as well as just the general view of the body being a system of systems, interconnected. But the Peat community, at the time, preached the virtues of carbs to many people's detriment. Story after story of taking a low metabolic state and then suddenly shoving it with pro metabolic foods and carbs. But that's just as much of a stressor as going low carb all of a sudden.

My macros nowadays are about 45/45 carbs and proteins and 10 fat. At every meal. Food frequency is also important for regulating metabolism. Then, of course, *everything* in life influences metabolism.

 

[Whichway?]

How is your general stress levels from life - job, relationships with significant other and family, finances, health, etc?

These can all influence cortisol levels and keep it up over the long term. So many business managers I’ve seen are overweight, especially as they age, because there job is all head stress. The only ones I know that are older and still thin are those that do a lot of cardio.

 

[aquaman]

Many years ago I started the Paleo diet. I was doing very low-carb and high protein/fat. I was also training at a gym. Stressful, cortisol-inducing behavior I understand, but I lost a lot of fat yet I had good muscle.

4 months later I discovered Peat's work and started eating much more sugar, milk and avoiding PUFAs. I gained around 25 pounds ever since (about 4 years now). Lower cortisol, yet higher body fat %.

A lot of the scientific evidence points to cortisol being the culprit for belly fat and fat gain in general. But if you notice my experience was the exact opposite, and I'm not the only one.

What are possible explanations for this?

I want to lose fat again but nothing works (I thought thyroid and calories would help but nope). Thinking to do intermittent fasting, but take theanine, progesterone, aspirin, vitamin D/E and in general anti-cortisol substances during the fast. Thoughts?

Excess sugar that isn’t metabolised, will certainly be deposited as fat.

 

[shepherdgirl]

I was on paleo for a couple years until i crashed my thyroid. I was very low body fat, with lots of muscle. I was doing fasted sprints, lifting weights, etc. As soon as I started with high carb and stopped breathless exercise I began to gain fat. I felt much better for many reasons, except the fat still has not come off. Here is my current guess as to why - please let me know if it makes sense: when i was on paleo i burned through a lot of body fat, and since i had never been low PUFA, a lot of damage was done to the liver by peroxidation of PUFA. Also the metabolism had switched to fat burning, and i probably became insulin resistant. The liver metabolism was damaged. Going back to carbs, the liver became fatty and could not respond to carbohydrates properly. So perhaps the solution is to restore proper liver metabolism.

 

[Steene]

All I see here is people jumping from one extreme to an other. Hold your prolactin, estradiol and cortisol low and your digestion clean by using charcoal, etc. and I can guarantee you, you won't get fat on a slight caloric surplus.

 

[haidut]

Many years ago I started the Paleo diet. I was doing very low-carb and high protein/fat. I was also training at a gym. Stressful, cortisol-inducing behavior I understand, but I lost a lot of fat yet I had good muscle.

4 months later I discovered Peat's work and started eating much more sugar, milk and avoiding PUFAs. I gained around 25 pounds ever since (about 4 years now). Lower cortisol, yet higher body fat %.

A lot of the scientific evidence points to cortisol being the culprit for belly fat and fat gain in general. But if you notice my experience was the exact opposite, and I'm not the only one.

What are possible explanations for this?

I want to lose fat again but nothing works (I thought thyroid and calories would help but nope). Thinking to do intermittent fasting, but take theanine, progesterone, aspirin, vitamin D/E and in general anti-cortisol substances during the fast. Thoughts?

It is quite common to be skinny and VERY insulin resistant. All that fat-burning you did for years adapted the cells to burning fat and not glucose. Most people gain weight when they stop their restrictive diets or exhaustive exercise. That does not mean it is the Peat diet that made them fat, but rather everything they did before. So, basically once you get into that state, sometimes dietary changes may not be enough to get you back to good metabolism. I think this is one of the reasons Peat mentions thyroid, progesterone, DHEA and other anti-cortisol measures. The dieting/exercise for years upregulates your cortisol production (i.e. both expression and activity of 11b-HSD1 sd mentioned in the link below) and in many people it takes a log time to revert back to normal. In some people some kind of pharmacological intervention may be even needed. It is not just CI = CO as one person above noted. Your endocrine balance has shifted, and your metabolism has been lowered. Your RMR while on Paleo is probably about half of what it used to be before you went on that diet even if you were skinnier on Paleo. Actually, as we discussed in other threads as well, skinny people have (on average) lower metabolism than heavier people even if the heavier people's weight is mostly fat. So, after stopping the Paleo you will probably gain weight on even half as many calories as before. Here is another thread on how weight loss due to stress (starving, endurance exercise, etc) truly ruins metabolism and sets people up not only for regaining the lost weight but for being in much worse metabolic health before weight loss.
"Biggest Loser" Contestants Regained Weight. Peat Perspective

I know, it truly sucks, but that's what happens when we are brainwashed into believing that "no pain = no gain" or the more commonly promoted one "pain = gain". In this case literally - you endure pain for a while, you gain weight later as a compensatory reaction to the stress you endured.
Exercise + Fasting Is Stress, Causes Obesity And IR, And Requires Cortisol Blockade To Reverse

 

[shepherdgirl]

@haidut
I appreciate you weighing in on this (pun intended lol). It's very easy to place the blame for weight gain on high carbs and the Peat diet instead of realizing that it's not that simple. I never used to have any problems with carbs. I grew up on Fruity Pebbles and spaghetti. The carbs haven't changed; my metabolism has been damaged.

 

[haidut]

@haidut
I appreciate you weighing in on this (pun intended lol). It's very easy to place the blame for weight gain on high carbs and the Peat diet instead of realizing that it's not that simple. I never used to have any problems with carbs. I grew up on Fruity Pebbles and spaghetti. The carbs haven't changed; my metabolism has been damaged.

Thanks. I updated my comment with a link to the Biggest Loser study. If you have not seen it I suggest taking a look. It really drives the point home that losing weight with exercise and fasting is really just a sign of being under stress. As soon as the stress stops the weight is regained and then some. The systemic health is actually worse afterwords due to the upregulated cortisol synthesis and lowered RMR (which means less cortisol clearance/excretion as well).

 

[Runenight201]

@haidut
I appreciate you weighing in on this (pun intended lol). It's very easy to place the blame for weight gain on high carbs and the Peat diet instead of realizing that it's not that simple. I never used to have any problems with carbs. I grew up on Fruity Pebbles and spaghetti. The carbs haven't changed; my metabolism has been damaged.

I'm not quite sure I agree, as there's more to health than just weight and blood markers.

As a kid I use to consume sugar all day long, lemonade by the buckets, sweetened cereals, etc... I was very skinny (honestly too skinny) and very active. However, I also had a ton of cavities, anxiety (which I only know looking back now, but it wasn't life crippling, just didn't allow me to develop as well as I could have), and could not properly develop muscle, while all my peers were getting stronger in their teen years. Also, my skeletal frame didn't develop as large as it should have (my dad is 6', I'm 5'9", I'm not distraught over it, but it would have been nice to be 6')

So while I was able to "process" the carbs, in the sense that I wasn't overweight, they impeded my proper development. Had I been on a fruit, meat, egg, milk/cheese, and fat diet, I think I would have developed much more properly, and not have been such a weak, insecure kid.

I honestly have been of late thinking that Peat really has been right about starch. It just doesn't seem to give the same energy and strength that fruit, meat, eggs, milk, and fat do. I think it may have its place in extreme muscle break down or energy expenditure, and so it's use is directly correlated with how much activity has been expended, but I think it's better to prioritize fruit, meat, milk/cheese, eggs, and fat.

So you get the beneficial sugars with fruit and milk (along with plenty of micronutrients), and then the meat, milk, eggs, and fat (sour cream is $$$) provide the bulk of calories necessary to sustain appetite.

I think a mix of primal with more of an emphasis on fruit may be a beneficial road to head down, at least that's what I'm trying out next.

 

[shepherdgirl]

So while I was able to "process" the carbs, in the sense that I wasn't overweight, they impeded my proper development. Had I been on a fruit, meat, egg, milk/cheese, and fat diet, I think I would have developed much more properly, and not have been such a weak, insecure kid.

Oh, I was definitely not saying that my refined sugar and flour diet was optimal in terms of health! I also agree that there is more to health than weight and blood markers. It's just that sugar and carbs are often vilified and held up as the cause of fat gain, but in my own experience, they never caused weight gain for me until AFTER I went on a low carb diet. Therefore I believe the accusation that "sugar makes you fat" is simplistic and short sighted.
IMHO primal is not a bad diet, especially when it emphasizes offal and gelatinous cuts over muscle meat, but i personally think it needs a lot more carbs. And dairy. And no nuts or oily fish. Wait, something about that is ringing a bell...

 

[ecstatichamster]

Losing weight today is like the Holy Grail for people. Sadly. Because weight can be protective, and losing weight can be highly destructive as in that Biggest Loser study (thanks @haidut)

Minimizing or lowering or controlling intake of Sugar has nothing to do with gaining weight, I have found, and many honest studies attest. Of course, nobody should advocate large amounts of white sugar. Sugar in the form of orange juice, fruit, and a bit of white sugar in your coffee, or a Coke, along with lots of good food, is what we are talking about.

 

[frant26]

Losing weight today is like the Holy Grail for people. Sadly.

I suppose it's easier to say that when you're not trying to find a partner. We're not talking about six-packs here. I want the same weight of age 20, which was perfectly balanced. There's always time to regain fat... when you get married

What really bothers me about having 25% fat is that I feel HEAVY and the agility I used to have has vanished. So yes, I want to lose the weight and gain muscle (as many other people do) and I don't see absolutely anything wrong with it.

Of course, nobody should advocate large amounts of white sugar. Sugar in the form of orange juice, fruit, and a bit of white sugar in your coffee, or a Coke, along with lots of good food, is what we are talking about.

Exactly.

@haidut Thank you for your insight, I'm convinced about the facts you present. I would just like to point out that mine were not "years of Paleo", it was a minor venture into low-er carb for about 4 months. Otherwise I never in my life avoided fruit or meat or milk. 5 years of Peating to not recover from 4 months of low-er carb seems... interesting.

Yes, my levels of prolactin are EXACTLY the same as back then, TSH slightly lower. I would've expected many more improvements but all I got with Peating was weight gain, insomnia and ED.

 

[haidut]

Yes, my levels of prolactin are EXACTLY the same as back then, TSH slightly lower. I would've expected many more improvements but all I got with Peating was weight gain, insomnia and ED.

Have you had tests for liver function, insulin sensitivity, cortisol and androgens?

 

[haidut]

Losing weight today is like the Holy Grail for people. Sadly. Because weight can be protective, and losing weight can be highly destructive as in that Biggest Loser study (thanks @haidut)

Minimizing or lowering or controlling intake of Sugar has nothing to do with gaining weight, I have found, and many honest studies attest. Of course, nobody should advocate large amounts of white sugar. Sugar in the form of orange juice, fruit, and a bit of white sugar in your coffee, or a Coke, along with lots of good food, is what we are talking about.

Gaining weight is a sign/symptoms. It is a knee-jerk reaction to attack the symptoms and Western medicine has poisoned everybody's mind by practicing this for decades. It does NOT improve health outcomes as it has been shown in countless studies but marketing always trumps studies. The weekly hours of exercise per capita are at an all time high and the public's health is still in the gutter. There is no evidence that we eat more and/or have less physical activity less these days, yet both us and even the wild animals around us are getting fatter. So, even if one buys the story that we are gluttons incapable of controlling ourselves what about wild animals whose lifestyle has not changed much?
https://psmag.com/social-justice/just-people-getting-fatter-65342

So, something else is at play and whatever it is it is not curable by fasting/exercise.
The science is in: exercise won’t help you lose much weight
How Reducing Your Calories Can Wreck Your Metabolism
Changes in energy expenditure resulting from altered body weight. - PubMed - NCBI

Not many other things remain as possible reasons and an absolutely toxic (literally and figuratively) environment is the number one suspect.
Opinion | Warnings From a Flabby Mouse

 

[ecstatichamster]

Gaining weight is a sign/symptoms. It is a knee-jerk reaction to attack the symptoms and Western medicine has poisoned everybody's mind by practicing this for decades. It does NOT improve health outcomes as it has been shown in countless studies but marketing always trumps studies. The weekly hours of exercise per capita are at an all time high and the public's health is still in the gutter. There is no evidence that we eat more and/or have less physical activity less these days, yet both us and even the wild animals around us are getting fatter. So, even if one buys the story that we are gluttons incapable of controlling ourselves what about wild animals whose lifestyle has not changed much?
https://psmag.com/social-justice/just-people-getting-fatter-65342

So, something else is at play and whatever it is it is not curable by fasting/exercise.
The science is in: exercise won’t help you lose much weight
How Reducing Your Calories Can Wreck Your Metabolism
Changes in energy expenditure resulting from altered body weight. - PubMed - NCBI

Not many other things remain as possible reasons and an absolutely toxic (literally and figuratively) environment is the number one suspect.
Opinion | Warnings From a Flabby Mouse

I think it’s PUFA consumption.

 

[frant26]

Have you had tests for liver function, insulin sensitivity, cortisol and androgens?

Yes. Liver enzymes (AST/ALT) went up from 18 & 18 U/l in early 2014 when I started "peating", to 25 & 33 U/l a month ago. Total testosterone lowered from 980 to 640 in the same period. Albumin slight lowered but in range. Total cholesterol has always been low-ish (160 on average).

Negative trend overall. The only thing that improved in my life is being less cloudheaded (due to taking thyroid I think). All the rest is worse.

How do you test insulin sensitivity?

 

[haidut]

Yes. Liver enzymes (AST/ALT) went up from 18 & 18 U/l in early 2014 when I started "peating", to 25 & 33 U/l a month ago. Total testosterone lowered from 980 to 640 in the same period. Albumin slight lowered but in range. Total cholesterol has always been low-ish (160 on average).

Negative trend overall. The only thing that improved in my life is being less cloudheaded (due to taking thyroid I think). All the rest is worse.

How do you test insulin sensitivity?

Fasting blood glucose, glucose challenge test, and blood glucose measuring 1 hours after eating and then 3 and 6 hours later. Any of these is usually a good indicator but combinations are even better.