Why Did I Lose Weight With Paleo If It Increases Cortisol?

[frant26]

Many years ago I started the Paleo diet. I was doing very low-carb and high protein/fat. I was also training at a gym. Stressful, cortisol-inducing behavior I understand, but I lost a lot of fat yet I had good muscle.

4 months later I discovered Peat's work and started eating much more sugar, milk and avoiding PUFAs. I gained around 25 pounds ever since (about 4 years now). Lower cortisol, yet higher body fat %.

A lot of the scientific evidence points to cortisol being the culprit for belly fat and fat gain in general. But if you notice my experience was the exact opposite, and I'm not the only one.

What are possible explanations for this?

I want to lose fat again but nothing works (I thought thyroid and calories would help but nope). Thinking to do intermittent fasting, but take theanine, progesterone, aspirin, vitamin D/E and in general anti-cortisol substances during the fast. Thoughts?

 

[Ulysses]

Just track your food and eat maintenance calories. I know people are against it here, or at least, advocate ad libitum eating, but in my experience it sure as hell beats being fat. A couple of years ago lost fifty pounds on a savage cut, and it sucked, but once I was done and went back to eating maintenance calories I felt SO much better than I ever did before I lost the weight. I have no regrets about it whatsoever.

Earlier in the year I tried eating a very low fat diet, I’m talking single digit grams of fat per day, with unrestricted calories. The result was I gained ten pounds of fat and didn’t feel any better. Suffice it to say I won’t be doing that again

 

[Andman]

CI/CO still matters, thats basically it

 

[frant26]

Earlier in the year I tried eating a very low fat diet, I’m talking single digit grams of fat per day, with unrestricted calories. The result was I gained ten pounds of fat and didn’t feel any better. Suffice it to say I won’t be doing that again

Great to know as VLF was one of my options. What do you mean by savage cut? Fasting? Using specific supplements?

CI/CO still matters, thats basically it

I started to ingest much less calories lately, and that hasn't affected my weight at all. When traveling I eat differently. Sometimes I work out much more. It seems no matter what I do, I don't lose or gain fat. Stubborn belly.

I still wonder about what happens with cortisol. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Ulysses]

Great to know as VLF was one of my options. What do you mean by savage cut? Fasting? Using specific supplements

I think VLF is a good thing to try, just don't deliberately eat more than your maintenance calories like I did. I mean I lost weight fast - 2 lbs a week.

 

[Andman]

I started to ingest much less calories lately, and that hasn't affected my weight at all. When traveling I eat differently. Sometimes I work out much more. It seems no matter what I do, I don't lose or gain fat. Stubborn belly.

I still wonder about what happens with cortisol. It doesn't make sense.

(unfortunately) if it doesnt work by eyeballing it, youll have to actively count calories for a while - can take up to 2 weeks of concentrated effort to see some results depending on starting point

 

[Collden]

I think its not cortisol that promotes weight-gain but rather resistance to cortisol or hypo secretion that develops after prolonged elevated cortisol levels, hence why you have difficulty losing weight after your paleo adventure.

With cortisone treatment for instance, it does not immediately cause Cushings-like symptoms, that only occurs over time with chronic treatment.

 

[Watson350]

Calories in vs calories out. Muscle meat is far more satiating and less calorie dense than sugar rich foods. I think the peatarian world is not a body building Brad Pitt in Troy world.

 

[Elephanto]

Switched from glucose oxidation to fat oxidation (lipolysis).

The role of genes involved in lipolysis on weight loss program in overweight and obese individuals

Inhibiting Lipolysis May Treat / Cure Cancer

 

[frant26]

I think its not cortisol that promotes weight-gain but rather resistance to cortisol or hypo secretion that develops after prolonged elevated cortisol levels, hence why you have difficulty losing weight after your paleo adventure.

That makes sense, but my paleo adventure lasted just 4 months. And I've been "eating well" for the past 4 years.

 

[frant26]

Calories in vs calories out.

I haven't measured but pretty sure the past few months I've been in caloric deficit (I replaced a full lunch with snacking a bit of fruit). Nothing has changed.

Muscle meat is far more satiating and less calorie dense than sugar rich foods.

But high in phosphate and tryptophan, and protein with little carbs wouldn't release a lot of cortisol into the bloodstream? Again, I'm puzzled because I friend of mine just eats a lot of muscle meat and he's ripped AF.

I think the peatarian world is not a body building Brad Pitt in Troy world.

Right, but there are some success stories here. I *think* all those guys (iirc stryker, tubzy, and others) have been using supplements. So not sure whether there actually is a story of getting leaner with just food. There are so many threads about weight loss that is difficult to find the takeaways.

 

[ddjd]

Many years ago I started the Paleo diet. I was doing very low-carb and high protein/fat. I was also training at a gym. Stressful, cortisol-inducing behavior I understand, but I lost a lot of fat yet I had good muscle.

4 months later I discovered Peat's work and started eating much more sugar, milk and avoiding PUFAs. I gained around 25 pounds ever since (about 4 years now). Lower cortisol, yet higher body fat %.

A lot of the scientific evidence points to cortisol being the culprit for belly fat and fat gain in general. But if you notice my experience was the exact opposite, and I'm not the only one.

What are possible explanations for this?

I want to lose fat again but nothing works (I thought thyroid and calories would help but nope). Thinking to do intermittent fasting, but take theanine, progesterone, aspirin, vitamin D/E and in general anti-cortisol substances during the fast. Thoughts?

Adrenaline is the reason you lost weight. I think you're mixing Cortisol and Adrenaline up

 

[frant26]

Adrenaline is the reason you lost weight. I think you're mixing Cortisol and Adrenaline up

So you mean cortisol can be low (or a non issue) eating a Paleo diet, but it's the high adrenaline that makes the fat melt?

 

[GAF]

It's excess fluid. Get some acetazolamide and reduce fluid intake drastically and you will pee pee pee it all out in a week or three.

I break the tablets into fourths and trickle them in all day.

A gallon of fluid is over 8 pounds.

 

[ddjd]

So you mean cortisol can be low (or a non issue) eating a Paleo diet, but it's the high adrenaline that makes the fat melt?

adrenaline sets off lipolysis. in a fasting state, your hands and feet will become cold as adrenaline rises considerably, you'll feel very alert and the fat melts off. but it's entirely against what peat advises. He wants to block lipolysis at every opportunity. but unless you want to try the zero fat, high carb peat weight loss approach which is near impossible if you want to have a social life, lipolysis is the ONLY way to lose weight.

 

[Watson350]

I haven't measured but pretty sure the past few months I've been in caloric deficit (I replaced a full lunch with snacking a bit of fruit). Nothing has changed.



But high in phosphate and tryptophan, and protein with little carbs wouldn't release a lot of cortisol into the bloodstream? Again, I'm puzzled because I friend of mine just eats a lot of muscle meat and he's ripped AF.



Right, but there are some success stories here. I *think* all those guys (iirc stryker, tubzy, and others) have been using supplements. So not sure whether there actually is a story of getting leaner with just food. There are so many threads about weight loss that is difficult to find the takeaways.

Have they posted pictures of their ripped bodies? Raise the protein, eat fruits, vegetables as you please.

 

[Glassy]

Earlier in the year I tried eating a very low fat diet, I’m talking single digit grams of fat per day, with unrestricted calories. The result was I gained ten pounds of fat and didn’t feel any better. Suffice it to say I won’t be doing that again

Wow - that’s a lot of fat produced by DNL! How long did you run very low fat for? I’m about 2 weeks in to a similar experiment and my weight has bounced up a good 4 lbs (I’m probably holding more water at the moment so not too worried yet).

 

[danielbb]

Many years ago I started the Paleo diet. I was doing very low-carb and high protein/fat. I was also training at a gym. Stressful, cortisol-inducing behavior I understand, but I lost a lot of fat yet I had good muscle.

4 months later I discovered Peat's work and started eating much more sugar, milk and avoiding PUFAs. I gained around 25 pounds ever since (about 4 years now). Lower cortisol, yet higher body fat %.

A lot of the scientific evidence points to cortisol being the culprit for belly fat and fat gain in general. But if you notice my experience was the exact opposite, and I'm not the only one.

What are possible explanations for this?

I want to lose fat again but nothing works (I thought thyroid and calories would help but nope). Thinking to do intermittent fasting, but take theanine, progesterone, aspirin, vitamin D/E and in general anti-cortisol substances during the fast. Thoughts?

Ok.... some thoughts... I was 260 lbs last September 21st and now weigh 194. I got to as low as 180 (about 3 months ago) until I switched to following all of the ideas espoused here including low fat milk (1%), OJ, aspirin, gelatin, no PUFA, no starch other than mashed potatoes/white rice, no legumes, 120 grams of proteins per day, less than 40 g of fat per day, approximately 250 g of carbohydrate per day mostly from milk, OJ, and one Mexican Coke per day.

When I got to 180 ( a loss of 80 lbs from last year), I noticed low body temperatures, headaches, shriveled/bluish fingers, and moodiness. By accident, I found that a Coke had wonderful properties for me and that my hormone production and sleep quality improved dramatically. Ray has made me a believer, but after going hard core with this, I have been stuck at about 194 lbs for several months. My mood and thyroid function seem to be at 100%. My calories are typically at 2000 or below each day. My exercise is resistance training (2 to 3 time per week) and walking every day.

I used intermittent fasting (IF) to lose that much weight but it did cause thyroid issues. I was accountable to the scale each day and averaged about 3.5 lbs per week. I liked the way I looked in the mirror and the compliments I was getting but knew something inside was not right. My opinion is that Ray's is the anti-lipolysis diet and thus makes it very hard to mobilize fat. The way I understand it, you build up your muscles slowly over time and let your muscles burn the fat slowly over time. In fact, I think I saw one quote where he said it could take years to mobilize the stored fat.

You have to watch your caloric intake and I do, but I am at a plateau that seems difficult to overcome. Today I am experimenting with an intermittent fast. My body temperature has been perfect all day and I am a bit surprised by that. I've had to take aspirin twice today because of headache and I assume that is due to some stress hormone although I do not feel stressed. I have not eaten since last night at 6:00PM and it is almost 6:00PM now. I plan on ending the fast tomorrow morning (approximately 36 hours). I am going to see if this bootstraps things for me. After ending the fast, I am going to attempt a diet that follows the Peat protocols described above and also not go too much above 1700 calories/day and see if this takes me where I want to go. If I need to and feel like there is some benefit, I may try one weekly IF. Still unsure about IF due to some of the negative treatment it has gotten here and from my own experiences. I am wondering however (like I posted in another thread) if one of the issues with IF may be chronic IF (overdoing it like I did to cause thyroid problems) versus short bouts of acute IF?

 

[Glassy]

So you mean cortisol can be low (or a non issue) eating a Paleo diet, but it's the high adrenaline that makes the fat melt?

When you’re blood sugar is low your body makes use of the 5 hormones to raise blood sugar levels to varying degrees. Adrenaline, Noradrenaline & Glucagon tend to be used initially to pull glucose from liver glycogen stores (eg when fasted, threatened/scared or after consuming a high protein meal) and if this becomes ineffective cortisol is increased. I believe cortisol increases the breakdown of protein into glucose which is why people who are dieting/cutting are advised to increase protein intake.

Adrenaline and noradrenaline are catecholamines that are also revered for their fat liberating properties (lipolysis). The mobilise fat into the bloodstream but this fat will be redeposited if it is unused (they don’t actually burn fat). This is the reasoning behind fasted low intensity cardio for fat loss. In a Peaty sense the increase in FFAs in the blood are not favourable but I think this is more of an issue if they’re chronically elevated.

There seems to be some metabolic magic that happens when you are eating very low fat or very low carb. It also seems to be useful in the short term and infrequently for some reason. In the end it seems to be more about your caloric intake and output and your body’s main objective is survival rather than showing those abs or your emotional well being. Your body’s metabolism adjusts constantly to your energy needs and energy supply.

 

[ddjd]

When you’re blood sugar is low your body makes use of the 5 hormones to raise blood sugar levels to varying degrees. Adrenaline, Noradrenaline & Glucagon tend to be used initially to pull glucose from liver glycogen stores (eg when fasted, threatened/scared or after consuming a high protein meal) and if this becomes ineffective cortisol is increased. I believe cortisol increases the breakdown of protein into glucose which is why people who are dieting/cutting are advised to increase protein intake.

Adrenaline and noradrenaline are catecholamines that are also revered for their fat liberating properties (lipolysis). The mobilise fat into the bloodstream but this fat will be redeposited if it is unused (they don’t actually burn fat). This is the reasoning behind fasted low intensity cardio for fat loss. In a Peaty sense the increase in FFAs in the blood are not favourable but I think this is more of an issue if they’re chronically elevated.

There seems to be some metabolic magic that happens when you are eating very low fat or very low carb. It also seems to be useful in the short term and infrequently for some reason. In the end it seems to be more about your caloric intake and output and your body’s main objective is survival rather than showing those abs or your emotional well being. Your body’s metabolism adjusts constantly to your energy needs and energy supply.

i have to add that prior to peating i had a six pack, very lean/low bodyfat, but my immune system was terrible. i got flus and colds 4/5 times a year. Five years of peating, and whilst i do have fatty liver issues, overweight, belly fat, i havent had a bad flu once in 5 years. I was also able to halt my hair loss. I also think my mental health has also been a lot better.

As you say, should we just think more about our long term objectives than the beach body look.