What to do if one has a 5 Alpha Reductase Deficiency

[IVILA]

Hello All,

As my testosterone levels (29.9 nmo/l) are 17.1x larger than my DHT levels (1.75 nmol/l) I suspect a mild 5AR deficiency. I have never used any 5AR blockers and have tried my best to keep my metabolic rate healthy by using T3 at dosages over 50 mcg. Despite this, I have a stubborn fatty liver that has been hard to get rid of as I have been trying for over a year now, weak beard and penile growth ever since puberty, but not as high of a libido when I compared to others my age, and seem to be stressed too easily. Even if I take large dosages of T3, I still feel something missing and am not quite able to reach a hyperthyroid state that is comfortable. Androsterone and DHEA topically don't seem to do much. Maybe it's because I don't have much 5AR in my system.

I am a 24-year-old male and am Turkish. If you look it up, Turkish males have the highest prevalence of 5AR deficiency in the world. It is a rare genetic condition that occurs in this world and not everyone has it. It mainly occurs in Turkey, Brazil, Italy, and China, with Turkey having over 23% of this genetic condition.

I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions on what to do to handle this. Should I start taking DHT gel? Or would proviron suffice?

Please advise.

 

[Hans]

Hello All,

As my testosterone levels (29.9 nmo/l) are 17.1x larger than my DHT levels (1.75 nmol/l) I suspect a mild 5AR deficiency. I have never used any 5AR blockers and have tried my best to keep my metabolic rate healthy by using T3 at dosages over 50 mcg. Despite this, I have a stubborn fatty liver that has been hard to get rid of as I have been trying for over a year now, weak beard and penile growth ever since puberty, but not as high of a libido when I compared to others my age, and seem to be stressed too easily. Even if I take large dosages of T3, I still feel something missing and am not quite able to reach a hyperthyroid state that is comfortable. Androsterone and DHEA topically don't seem to do much. Maybe it's because I don't have much 5AR in my system.

I am a 24-year-old male and am Turkish. If you look it up, Turkish males have the highest prevalence of 5AR deficiency in the world. It is a rare genetic condition that occurs in this world and not everyone has it. It mainly occurs in Turkey, Brazil, Italy, and China, with Turkey having over 23% of this genetic condition.

I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions on what to do to handle this. Should I start taking DHT gel? Or would proviron suffice?

Please advise.

What does your diet look like?

 

[IVILA]

What does your diet look like?

Potatoes, rice, fruit, maple syrup, milk and honey for carbs.

I eat organ meats, liver, oysters, lamb, and eggs for protein and cook with grass-fed ghee. The same stuff you talk about in your videos. My calories are over 3100 for a 175 lbs male. My macros are usually 20F/20P/60C and I get a lot of sunlight usually.

When I tested my DHT levels in May I was getting over 8 hours of sleep and over 6 hours of sunlight daily.

I still had a DHT level of 50 ng/dl.

 

[Hans]

Potatoes, rice, fruit, maple syrup, milk and honey for carbs.

I eat organ meats, liver, oysters, lamb, and eggs for protein and cook with grass-fed ghee. The same stuff you talk about in your videos. My calories are over 3100 for a 175 lbs male. My macros are usually 20F/20P/60C and I get a lot of sunlight usually.

When I tested my DHT levels in May I was getting over 8 hours of sleep and over 6 hours of sunlight daily.

I still had a DHT level of 50 ng/dl.

Diet looks good. Do you still use high dose T3? Why did you use T3? Did you have low T3?

 

[IVILA]

Yeah, I had very hypothyroid symptoms. Cold hands, feet, brain fog, as I said fatty liver, hair loss.

Look, my testosterone is 862 ng/dl. It should convert to Dht. But my dht is stuck at 50 ng/dl. It just doesn’t convert and the T/Dht ratio is too high. I have estrogenic symptoms because of this since probably I don’t have enough 5AR.

Besides, even if I raise my testosterone even higher (Ive been trying with all my might naturally anyways), how much more can my Dht increase?? It definitely won’t go to the upper end of the reference range which is over 90 ng/dl.

 

[Hans]

Yeah, I had very hypothyroid symptoms. Cold hands, feet, brain fog, as I said fatty liver, hair loss.

Look, my testosterone is 862 ng/dl. It should convert to Dht. But my dht is stuck at 50 ng/dl. It just doesn’t convert and the T/Dht ratio is too high. I have estrogenic symptoms because of this since probably I don’t have enough 5AR.

Besides, even if I raise my testosterone even higher (Ive been trying with all my might naturally anyways), how much more can my Dht increase?? It definitely won’t go to the upper end of the reference range which is over 90 ng/dl.

So you still have hypo symptoms? And what estrogenic sides do you get?

 

[IVILA]

I don’t get estrogenic sides. Testosterone gotta convert somewhere right? If it ain’t converting so much to Dht then it has to convert to estrogen.

yeah I still have some fat accumulation/water retention, double chin, high histamine/allergies, itching, and lower energy.

 

[Charger]

So, I have/had similar issues with low DHT, before taking T3 my DHT was only 33 ng/dL, so even lower than yours. T3 brought it up to 48 ng/dL.

Have you tried pregnenolone for stress? Phosphatidylserine?

Have you experimented with Exemestane/Aromasin at all? Very low dose between 1-3mg daily or as needed can give me that androgenic, energized but calm, collected/not-stressed feeling.

What about herbs such as Butea Superba or Bulbine Natalensis?

I have used Proviron before and it's hit or miss in its effects, but be prepared for it to eat your hair, mine noticeably thins whenever I'm on it for long.

 

[IVILA]

So, I have/had similar issues with low DHT, before taking T3 my DHT was only 33 ng/dL, so even lower than yours. T3 brought it up to 48 ng/dL.

Have you tried pregnenolone for stress? Phosphatidylserine?

Have you experimented with Exemestane/Aromasin at all? Very low dose between 1-3mg daily or as needed can give me that androgenic, energized but calm, collected/not-stressed feeling.

What about herbs such as Butea Superba or Bulbine Natalensis?

I have used Proviron before and it's hit or miss in its effects, but be prepared for it to eat your hair, mine noticeably thins whenever I'm on it for long.

T3 definitely makes me feel better. I haven’t tested my Dht levels before taking t3 so I would assume it was even lower. There’s only so much t3 i can take though. It’s definitely the 5AR deficiency. I’ve tried Pregnenolone/dhea. It has a little to no effect. How much Proviron and for how long did you use?

Proviron seems to not provide the exact same benefits as DHT does as it is used for increasing free testosterone, lowering SHBG and increasing androgen receptor expression.

I feel like since my issues are from low DHT it’s best to just take the bioidentical directly. What do you think @Hans ?

 

[Hans]

T3 definitely makes me feel better. I haven’t tested my Dht levels before taking t3 so I would assume it was even lower. There’s only so much t3 i can take though. It’s definitely the 5AR deficiency. I’ve tried Pregnenolone/dhea. It has a little to no effect. How much Proviron and for how long did you use?

Proviron seems to not provide the exact same benefits as DHT does as it is used for increasing free testosterone, lowering SHBG and increasing androgen receptor expression.

I feel like since my issues are from low DHT it’s best to just take the bioidentical directly. What do you think @Hans ?

Based on your symptoms, it doesn't sound like low DHT but rather just certain health problems. Your diet looks spot on so something must still cause issues. Usually histamine related issues stem from the gut. 2 really good tests will be a stool test and organic acid test to see where that problem/s is/are.

 

[IVILA]

Based on your symptoms, it doesn't sound like low DHT but rather just certain health problems. Your diet looks spot on so something must still cause issues. Usually histamine related issues stem from the gut. 2 really good tests will be a stool test and organic acid test to see where that problem/s is/are.

Just tested my DHT once more as of Feb 03rd, 2024.

May 15th 2023 - Testosterone: 862.4 ng/dL, DHT: 50.47 ng/dL , T/DHT Ratio: 17.11
Feb 03rd 2024 - Testosterone: 842.2 ng/dL, DHT: 48.46 ng/dL , T/DHT Ratio 17.38. Free testosterone also mid range.

Now I have two backup results to show that I have lower DHT in two separate seasons. Keep in mind, I was feeling much better in the middle of summer with tons of sunlight, etc. t3 dosage at 50mcg. Now, a little worse and more hypothyroid despite increasing t3 dosage to over 58mcg.

I will be asking my doctor to refer me to an endocrinologist for DHT and also starting proviron as I don't think I will stay in hell my whole life. I don't think any herbal/prebiotic therapy can help more than double my 5AR as I've tried different herbs like shilajit, boron, creatine etc before and still am, but am not seeing any results.

I have symptoms of higher testosterone levels (somewhat) but not the DHT for as long as I can remember.

 

[Wolf]

Have you ever had any exposure to anti androgens?
Have you ever tried any 5-AR upregulating substances such as glycine, niacinamide, and/or caffeine such that the “peak” of the supplements post administration coincide with your topical administration for a maximal 5AR induced conversion?
Have you ever had your prolactin tested?

 

[IVILA]

Have you ever had any exposure to anti androgens?
Have you ever tried any 5-AR upregulating substances such as glycine, niacinamide, and/or caffeine such that the “peak” of the supplements post administration coincide with your topical administration for a maximal 5AR induced conversion?
Have you ever had your prolactin tested?

I may have had some exposure. I’ve removed everything I can think of. Not sure if I’m unaware but I’m pretty sure there’s minimal exposure and I’m careful.

Regarding 5AR upregulation, I do have collagen, niacinamide and caffeine everyday.

I tested prolactin over a year ago. It was just above 7.

I personally don’t think I have a to work so damn hard just to see my DHT increase by 50 ng/dL. I’m nearly at the low end of the range and many young women who have pcos typically have average levels of 55ng/dL, regular women being over 25-35 ng/dL.

 

[tallglass13]

I may have had some exposure. I’ve removed everything I can think of. Not sure if I’m unaware but I’m pretty sure there’s minimal exposure and I’m careful.

Regarding 5AR upregulation, I do have collagen, niacinamide and caffeine everyday.

I tested prolactin over a year ago. It was just above 7.

I personally don’t think I have a to work so damn hard just to see my DHT increase by 50 ng/dL. I’m nearly at the low end of the range and many young women who have pcos typically have average levels of 55ng/dL, regular women being over 25-35 ng/dL.

From my experience, a 50ng DHT is very High end normal. The cut off on my lab ranges was 60 ng. I would be happy that your testosterone and DHT are high end on both.
Your Vitamin A is in your diet is high enough to warrant making sure you get lots of Thyroid and sunlight, according to Ray Peat. Ray said when he did not get enough sunlight while eating alot of Vitamin A, he became Hypothyroid. So, either stop eating liver all together, or up your t3 dosages.

 

[IVILA]

From my experience, a 50ng DHT is very High end normal. The cut off on my lab ranges was 60 ng. I would be happy that your testosterone and DHT are high end on both.
Your Vitamin A is in your diet is high enough to warrant making sure you get lots of Thyroid and sunlight, according to Ray Peat. Ray said when he did not get enough sunlight while eating alot of Vitamin A, he became Hypothyroid. So, either stop eating liver all together, or up your t3 dosages.

I only eat a little bit of liver once a week lol.

You're wrong with the lab ranges. That is for Quest Diagnostics and in the USA. They set their limits very low for a reason so that they can put people on finasteride once it goes above range or it's also an excuse to tell people that you already have "high levels" which they do not.

JCDR - Androgens, Diagnostic criteria, Hirsutism, Phenotypes . This study shows the average DHT level in North Indian women with PCOS. They have a level that is almost hitting your lab's high end. High levels for males are actually above 90 ng/dL, do your research.

 

[tallglass13]

I only eat a little bit of liver once a week lol.

You're wrong with the lab ranges. That is for Quest Diagnostics and in the USA. They set their limits very low for a reason so that they can put people on finasteride once it goes above range or it's also an excuse to tell people that you already have "high levels" which they do not.

JCDR - Androgens, Diagnostic criteria, Hirsutism, Phenotypes . This study shows the average DHT level in North Indian women with PCOS. They have a level that is almost hitting your lab's high end. High levels for males are actually above 90 ng/dL, do your research.

What is with the attitude. I was only chiming in on your little thread. I agree , You do have low DHT. Watch your tone with me.
Eating liver once a week is nothing to laugh out loud about Princess.