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Desperate In Need Of Help, Hypothyroidism, What To Do?

Discussion in 'Blood Work, Labs' started by Bart1, May 21, 2018.

  1. Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    Hi there,

    I'm new to this forum. I'm also fairly new to Ray Peat; I have tried so many things....I want to learn more about RP and apply it to improve my health, hope it can help, because I'm really lost

    Some small information. last 6-7 years continuously felt worse and worse, tried a lot of supplements (natural herbs, vitamins etc, also taken a lot of iodine, which made things worse, training regimens, diets etc. 1 year ago, my sister has been diagnosed with Hashimoto's and suddenly I was triggered that all of my problems could be caused by thyroid issues. I did the following lab work:

    male, 37 years old, about 80kg, 1.86m

    March 2017

    TSH - ECLIA - 1.57 mU/l - range 0.27 - 4.20
    Free T4 ECLIA - 19.56 pmol/l - range 11.6 - 21.9
    Free T3 ECLIA - 4.45 pmol/l - range 3.08 - 6.78

    TSH receptor antibodies ECLIA - <0.30 IU/l - range <1.75
    Thyroglobulin antibodies ECLIA - 136 IU/ml - range < 115 - elevated
    anti-TPO antibodies ECLIA - 9 kU/l - range <34

    May 2018
    morning without food
    TSH - ECLIA - 1.61 mU/l - range 0.27 - 4.20
    Free T4 ECLIA -19.69 pmol/l - range 11.6 - 21.9
    Free T3 ECLIA - 4.42 pmol/l - range 3.08 - 6.78
    Reverse T3 - 283.7 pmol/l - range 138.6 - 331.1
    SHBG - 49.9 nmol/l - range 18.3 - 54.1

    I'm feeling extreme tiredness, any form of activity is very hard, no sex drive, heart palpitations, muscle stiffness and soreness, brain fog, pain in my throat, insomnia, swollen fingers/feet (water retention?), cold, cold hands/feet.

    Can someone help me, I'm really lost, my doctors say there's nothing wrong with me except for a small vitamin D deficit. But I feel terrible. They put my issues as psychosomatic :-( Do I have Hashimoto's, Euthyroid sick syndrome, low T3 syndrome
     
  2. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    I'm experimenting with the Peat recommendations I find here. I'm doing this for almost a week and I must say I feel a bit better. Still would very much appreciate some light on my lab results, should I try to convince my doctor to put me on T3 hormone ?
     
  3. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Welcome @Bart1, I'm glad you are starting to feel a bit better. I'm not sure you can convince a doctor to treat you with thyroid because if they believe it's all psychosomatic they would most likely only offer psych meds.
    There are some people here who have improved their thyroid function with just diet and lifestyle measures. Others use thyroid supplements of various types. There are lots of threads on the subject so feel free to read around. We even had one member who made their own thyroid rich broth using chicken necks that still had the thyroid gland intact. I made it myself in the past when i ran out of my thyroid medicine and it was mild yet helpful. I believe @tara has made it as well. I'm just mentioning it to illustrate that there are many ways to help yourself without involving a doctor.
    Welcome again, I'm sure you get more replies soon.
     
  4. tara

    tara Member

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    Hi Bart,
    There may be things you can do to help yourself.

    Do you want to tell something about what and how much you are eating? One way to get an idea of what nutrition you are getting from your food is to put one or more typical/average day's food into www.cronometer or similar, and it will give you a rough idea of nutrients in it. (But ignore it's restrictive low-calorie advice.)
    From there, you can see if there are changes you can practically make to improve it.

    Some changes you may be able to make quickly and easily, some may be better tested out gradually. It may be that just changing a few things cann make a big difference for you, depending on your situation.

    Ideally, if you are have been eating a lot of PUFA, you could reduce that as quickly as possible in favour of saturated fats like butter, coconut oil, beef fat, cocoa butter, and maybe eating less fat and more fruit and veges, depending on your current habits.

    Check how much protein you are getting.

    Consider minerals - are you getting plenty of calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, and a bit of all the other essentials?

    Vitamins? Liver is a good source of a number of vitamins, so having a small serving of that once or twice a week can make a difference.

    A rough idea of how many calories you are eating can be useful for assessing metabolism.

    Are you getting regular sunlight on you? This can sometimes make quite a difference to peoples metabolism and mood.

    How is your breathing? Relaxed, diaphragmatic, nasal at rest, including during sleep?

    Monitoring your own body temperature can give you another a DIY way to see what's going on.

    I found chicken neck broth helpful - I had a little every day for quite a while.




    Have you found your way to Peat's articles and interviews?:
    Ray Peat
    Ray Peat Resources & Quotes | Ray Peat Forum
     
  5. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    hi @Blossom, @tara thanks for the replies! I must say, after a couple of days already I feel better, I sleep much better, normally I would wake 2-3 times a night and had to take valerian to get back to sleep. Now I just take some milk with honey and a tablespoon gelatine and add 6 grams of glycine on top of that and I had a very good night sleep today.

    Thanks for the cronometer link, I made an account and filled in some typical stuff I eat (since a couple of days). I have to expand this into more foods I know are good to consume. I avoid gluten since a couple of days.

    I did a lot of bad things I thought that would improve my health, but I also did some good things. I do breathing exercise to reset my breathing centre. I hold 10 times my breath as long as possible (deep inhale, long exhale) with a minute pause; my average time is about 100 seconds now (this improved from 75 seconds). I tape my mouth when I sleep.

    I take the following supplements: 200 UI of selenium, 15 mg zinc, 1 mg copper. 1 Thorne multi, some days add 400 UI vitamine E, Thorne Vitamine 2000 UI D/K2. Just started with super enzymes (now foods), thorne berberine, eleuthero. Maybe I take to much supplements... tried a lot of things before.

    I will read the supplied articles, thanks again for your help!
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Lilac

    Lilac Member

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    Welcome, Bart.

    I diagnosed and fixed my hypothyroidism with Ray Peat's guidance--no doctors, no tests. My symptoms were not as severe as yours, however. But you are younger and already showing improvement--keep going! I eat according to appetite--sweet, salty, fatty, meat, whatever--within the Peat recommendations, no calorie restriction (but I have gained unwanted weight). I judge my health by temperature, sleep quality, energy level, and presence or lack of body aches.

    Your long list of supplements could be trouble. Others know more about this than me. For copper, zinc, and other nutrients, I second the recommendation for eating liver. I believe that one thing stopped my hair loss. Just recently, I had drifted away from liver, and when I had my first good meal of it in a while, I noticed *much* sharper vision that night. Also, a chronic tooth pain disappeared. Have you tried aspirin?

    Chicken neck with the thyroid attached was mentioned upthread. Of course, you will need to find a supply for such a thing. The thyroid is not available in supermarkets. But one time I got a neck with thyroid that must have been missed in the processing plant. I divided the little lobes, and mom ate one and I ate the other. She did not mention feeling any different. Twenty minutes after eating my half, however, I was proclaiming, "I feel like I can do anything!" It was a remarkable experience. That night, though, my heart was beating too strongly and I had a hard time falling asleep. I realized how tricky thyroid is, and I have read many recommendations here to try to fix hypothyroidism before trying it.
     
  7. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    @Lilac thanks for your reply. I don't know if I can find liver here (I live in the Netherlands), but will look for it although I must say I don't know if I can eat that :vomit:, same goes for the chicken neck.

    I haven't tried aspirin yet, I read mixed opinions here, It should help to block PUFA ?

    Yes it's very astounding to me how much of a role the thyroid plays in you physical and mental health.

    I'm continuing with this for now, It's incredible how fast I feel much better in a couple of days!
     
  8. tara

    tara Member

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    Hi Bart,
    Glad you are seeing improvements. :)

    Just noting that is not very much food for a tall adult man. If you have typically been eating so little, then that may account for some of your trouble. For reference, I would expect a man you age and size running a healthy metabolism to typically use over 3000 cals/day.
    My hunches on possible things to try adding if they work for you, would be:
    - more fruit (raw/stewed/juice) and/or some root or tubers (eg well cooked potatoes, sweet potatoes etc). These can be good for carbs and have useful minerals, eg potassium with them too. (People seem to vary a bit about whether we do better with more or less sweet or starchy foods - I'd suggest starting out by taste and noticing the effects on yourself.)
    - some leafy greens. Peat usually recommends cooking them and drinking the broth. Some people seem to get benefit from raw too, but Peat doesn't particularly recommend a lot of raw salad. Minerals - particularly magnesium and calcium.
    - liver - lots of B-vits, vit-A, copper, other minerals, ...
    - oysters - esp zinc

    There is a thread or two here with ideas about how people enjoy eating liver. You could try see if you find a liver pate or recipe you like?
    Chicken neck stock goes well in a vege soup.
     
  9. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions! You're probably right that probably I did not eat/do not eat enough, this indeed could have attributed to my condition. I will try to up my food intake!
     
  10. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    about for weeks into peating now. Still have most of my symptoms however, my energy is a bit better, although I crash around 17:00 hours and have no energy in the evening. Still trouble sleeping, I wake up regularly and have problems falling asleep again (I take some milk when I wake up and that seems to help a bit). One of the major issues I have now which seem to get worse is that I feel very lightheaded after eating, weak pulse, heart rate not that high between 60-70. Would love some suggestions on what it might be or what I could do.

    I eat about 25000-3000 calories, try to gradually eat more. 50+% carbs, 25% protein, 25% fat.

    add salt to my drinks maybe around 1 teaspoon per day
    fresh OJ (half a gallon per day)
    low fat milk (2%, sometimes without fat)
    strawberries (mostly without seeds ( I blend them and leave seeds))
    collagen hydrolysate/bone broth protein
    1 - 2 eggs a day
    cottage cheese
    melons (honeydew, cantaloupe, water)
    grapes
    potatoes/rice
    some sort of meat try to minimise PUFA as much as I can
    caffein about 4-5 cups a day with milk and sugar
    5 grams of taurine spread over 2 doses per day
    some aspirin, about 500 mg
    Sometimes chicken neck soup (tried it, really not that bad!)

    I've actually lost weight, although I was not overweight.
     
  11. benaoao

    benaoao Member

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    I don’t think caffeine and aspirin are a good idea with so little calories. You absolutely need 3000+

    I’m sure Netherlands have cod livers around (in tins, not the oil). That’s a good start. Or ask the butcher for a ruminant liver but every other week at most, it’s extremely dense.

    You will benefit a lot from cooked spinach, sweet potatoes, other random calorie dense foods like avocado nuts (don’t worry they provide enough vitamin E to offset their om6 content), coconut flakes, dark chocolate, butter. Carbs are the preferred fuel but calorie dense fats do the job to support a larger than average body constitution.
     
  12. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    thank you! I will try to get 3000+ calories. Will add some of your suggestions and see if it helps
     
  13. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    I'm really at loss here guys.:( I tried increasing my calories but eating a ton of sugar/carbs when metabolism isn't working properly will not work I can tell you. I've tried taking thyroid but this has resulted in Cushing like symptoms (Buffalo neck, belly fat). Then I tried Cypro to counter the high cortisol, which helps a bit, but then I got a lot of fluid retention as if Cortisol is now lower but adrenaline is higher. Not sure if it's the Cypro causing this, but lowering Cypro does not seem to help much. I think I have bacterial overgrowth (eczema, regular sinus infections) and an overburden liver by all of this. I suffer from insomnia every hour I wake up and have to take some OJ and salt to sleep again. I have all weird neurological symptoms which I have to ignore because doctors are not able to help me and thinking about possibles diseases only gives me more anxiety which isn't helping my situation. Libido is zero.. I feel that all the pro metabolic stuff from Peat has only increased my stress response because probably food uptake/digestion is problematic. I'm beginning to lose faith that I will ever recover from this :( Hope somebody has any suggestion how to proceed?
     
  14. Arrade

    Arrade Member

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    Do you actually have hypothyroidsim? It looked like the bloods were in range
    I'd check cortisol or prolactin or estrogen instead

    I would really check estrogen as that will mess up metabolism and cause water bloat more than anything else.

    Try a small dose of aromasin or 'estroban' but I would suggest aromasin if you could get some.
    like a 6.25 mg dose

    What is your dht, test, free test, estrogen?
     
  15. tara

    tara Member

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    Do you have a sense that the foods you are eating agree with you? Do they give you energy?

    Have you tried varying things to see what works better for you?

    I see you tried cronometer - did you look at whether there were any nutritional gaps?

    Are there any foods you are eating that you are doubtful about that you could consider skipping for a day or two to see if you feel better without?
    Have you tried reducing the amount of fructose (and eating more potatoes or something instead) to see if you feel better for that? Or vice versa?

    Have you tried eating more veges to see if they serve you - especially leafy greens, but maybe others too?
     
  16. Luckytype

    Luckytype Member

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    How many calories in a day and how many bowel movements in a day?
     
  17. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    Couple of months ago before starting thyroid an endocrinologist checked some more things, this is some of the hormones;

    morning fasted state:
    TSH - 2.0 (range 0.4-4)
    Free T4 - 17 (range 10-24)
    Prolactin - 256 (range 53-360)
    PTH - 5.7 (range 1.0 - 7.0)
    Cortisol - 426 (range 170-500)
    Glucose - 5.5 (range 3.5- 6.1)
    Testosterone - 16.2 (range 6.9 - 28.1)
    LH - 4.0 (range 0.8 - 7.6)
    FSH - 3.5 (range 0.7 - 11.1)

    I remember in a far past that once freeT was checked, was very low, bottom of range, I had a SHBG in upper part range. Also estrogen was very low, but I did hear that estrogen typically is in the cells ?

    I think I do suffer from hypothyroidism. I have a low heart rate, which increased a bit but is around 55 bpm in resting rate. I’m also could most of the day. My TSH was 2.0 last time checked. In the beginning I got very relaxed from taking Tyromix. I think I did to much things at the same time which pushed my metabolism to hard and now I got a very high stress activation.
     
  18. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    Hi Tara,

    Thanks for the suggestions. I suffer from lightheadedness a lot; before and after eating food (reactive hypoglycemia) ? I notice that I cannot handle to much liquids and sugar. I have to really sip slow to not get the dizziness. Some solid foods seem to work better. I think I really have a sluggish liver and upping my sugar intake does not work for me. I think I actually made things worse by fattening the liver even more. Aspirin, Niacinamide, I read somewhere a post of haidut about this:


    "However, the point is to actually BURN the sugar rather than simply feeding ourselves more of it. For people with sluggish livers, many of whom also take niacinamide and aspirin, this is likely to make the metabolism situation worse by fattening the liver even more"


    Attached is a screenshot on what I eat. I use Energin and Estroban daily.


    When I eat organic sourdough spelt bread I seem to react fine to it. I do seem to get a stuffed nose from to much potatoes, but this is also not always the case. Apple sauce is also something which works great. When cane sugar is added I get dizziness.


    So I was thinking I try to add some fructose powder with every meal. That way I will not have too much liquids and it will not raise insulin. Also I will add some Taurine in the mix, I read great stories about that as well to raise the liver’s ability to store glycogen.

    I do not eat much veggies, because I hear mixed stories of them. I understand that well cooked they can be eaten, but not all. Sometimes I eat kale, zucchini, paprika.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. OP
    Bart1

    Bart1 Member

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    around 3000-3200 calories. I have 1-2 bowel movements but it's not coming out easily. Small, not very solid.
     
  20. Arrade

    Arrade Member

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    How is it hypo if all your thyroid and tsh hormones are in range
     
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