The delusion of "good bacteria"

[yerrag]

Months and months of raw Kefir and Raw Sauerkraut only made my brain fog worse, my muscles achy, and my face look like a living dead.

Did the bad effects occur suddenly after months of intake? What made you decide to take the raw kefir and raw sauerkraut together? Wouldn't it be better to take one first for awhile and observe the effects? This way you would know any issue would more easily be isolated to one substance? Could it be that kefir and sauerkraut are a bad combo?

And maybe you're right too - that there's no such thing as bad bacteria. Maybe after months of intake of the "good bacteria," they become so plenty and established a quorum, which made them more dominant, and just like any good person amassing great power they end up using that power in very malevolent ways. Gone berserk and drunk with power so to speak. What's important is a balance of power a la Star Wars.

 

[TheBeard]

Did the bad effects occur suddenly after months of intake? What made you decide to take the raw kefir and raw sauerkraut together? Wouldn't it be better to take one first for awhile and observe the effects? This way you would know any issue would more easily be isolated to one substance? Could it be that kefir and sauerkraut are a bad combo?

And maybe you're right too - that there's no such thing as bad bacteria. Maybe after months of intake of the "good bacteria," they become so plenty and established a quorum, which made them more dominant, and just like any good person amassing great power they end up using that power in very malevolent ways. Gone berserk and drunk with power so to speak. What's important is a balance of power a la Star Wars.

Kefir was introduced first. Endotoxin symptoms showed up on the very first day, cloudy mind, joint pains, suddenly needed to go to the chiropractor after 3 years not needing to.
Powered through it in the hope the good bacteria would kill the bad ones and candida.

Introduced Sauerkraut around three week after in the hope that diversity would finally cut it.
It didn't.

 

[TheBeard]

Have you ever had any weird "withdrawal" type effects after using antibiotics?

I've used Augmentin (Amoxicillin) twice, the first time I took it for 1 week, and I had a severe reaction after 1 month--extremely low oxygen, fast heartbeat, and melanin deposits on my fingers.

I had COVID too so it could also be due to that.

I used it again a 2nd time after that and it never happened.

You didn't have Covid, it doesn't exist.

I felt off during the Augmentin course, headache, nausea, slurred speach and reduced thought speed.
Everything went way upon discontinuation.

I didn't link any subsequent adverse event to lingerring Augmenting effect, so I couldn't say if there even was any.

 

[TheBeard]

Many people never learned to pay close attention to the different sensations you get from ingesting something, or how your mood and behaviour gets affected. I noticed my brother in the past when he would get a course of antibiotics for an infection, his creativity was on a completely different level. The artworks had a certain quality and refinement to them that subsided again after a few weeks of a standard diet.

When I take penicillin, I almost feel like on a psychedelic drug, without any sedating or hallucinogenic effects. Mental images have more plasticity to them and the colours around me are more bright and intense even in winter. It must be a low serotonin state, as opposed to a high serotonin state, when everything looks grey and the imagination is dulled.

You have to have experienced it to understand it indeed.

When I went on my "first" course of antibiotics for SIBO, I was meeting with friends that night.

Just seeing them coming from afar, I had that stupid smile on my face. Human interactions now felt exhilarating to me.
When we were talking, my brain was processing ideas so fast I would answer barely after the other's sentence was finished with witty comments.

I was bouncing on my legs full of energy, with incredible mental clarity, and with lust for life.

It's impossible to understand if you have never been in a low endotoxin / low serotonin state.

 

[TheBeard]

Many people never learned to pay close attention to the different sensations you get from ingesting something, or how your mood and behaviour gets affected. I noticed my brother in the past when he would get a course of antibiotics for an infection, his creativity was on a completely different level. The artworks had a certain quality and refinement to them that subsided again after a few weeks of a standard diet.

When I take penicillin, I almost feel like on a psychedelic drug, without any sedating or hallucinogenic effects. Mental images have more plasticity to them and the colours around me are more bright and intense even in winter. It must be a low serotonin state, as opposed to a high serotonin state, when everything looks grey and the imagination is dulled.

What's your antibiotic frequency regimen?
Does it only include penicilin?

 

[Nomane Euger]

Many people never learned to pay close attention to the different sensations you get from ingesting something, or how your mood and behaviour gets affected. I noticed my brother in the past when he would get a course of antibiotics for an infection, his creativity was on a completely different level. The artworks had a certain quality and refinement to them that subsided again after a few weeks of a standard diet.

When I take penicillin, I almost feel like on a psychedelic drug, without any sedating or hallucinogenic effects. Mental images have more plasticity to them and the colours around me are more bright and intense even in winter. It must be a low serotonin state, as opposed to a high serotonin state, when everything looks grey and the imagination is dulled.

Hi boris,the first time i ate honey comb on my life,in september,the day after,i woke up,any color did look"pastel like",insane,and i got a smell for the first time of my 25 years existence for 4 days,it vanished then

 

[JacquelineNZ]

Thanks jb.
I was starting to think I was the only one normal here.

So I always learn from your posts, I agree with what you share and I have a very simikar journey to yours as in tried same things and still have really high endo toxin. Im trying Georgi's CamphSol and that helps hugely but Im guessing I cant stay on it!
Im nit sure if it wipes out mouth or gut bad bacteria but I take it and my severe insomnia goes away. Then if I stop taking it bad sleep happens.
Can you give me tips on what foods you live on & what antibiotic you used. Ive been unable to work for a long time due to the hut by a bus feeling, insomnia, weightloss etc and using Peat info I have improved heaps but the gut is such a mess and Im dealing to huge infestation if tapeworm which got made worse on my carnivore diet of 8mnths

 

[boris]

Hi boris,the first time i ate honey comb on my life,in september,the day after,i woke up,any color did look"pastel like",insane,and i got a smell for the first time of my 25 years existence for 4 days,it vanished then

Interesting, I always liked chewing honeycomb as a kid.

What's your antibiotic frequency regimen?
Does it only include penicilin?

When I start to feel off, I take penicillin vk for 2-4 days. I think it's about 4-5 times this year. Occasionally I take doxycycline too, it immediately makes my stool quality perfect, but I don't like it too much because I have to stay away from cheese and milk for a few hours to not deactivate it, and I eat cheese or milk with every meal.

I am trying to get some amoxicillin or ampicillin prescribed and try a longer course of a few months since I suspect I might have "lupus".

You said you had some negative effects during the amoxicillin/augmentin course? Which antibiotics do you prefer?

 

[dukesbobby777]

By your logic, my body would just as much adapt to my daily garlic+carrot+ACV and make its antibacterial activities useless overtime.

I think (tell me if I'm wrong) that you are talking from the perspective of someone who hasn't had real gut issues.
Let me tell you why:

I have been feeling like a 36 tons truck hit me, upon waking, every single day for three years.
My nausea was so bad I was never hungry, that I couldn't drink or even smell a drop of alcohol, lost 25 pounds in half a year, would forget everything and couldn't formulate an idea.

When you reach this point, you try everything:
Fiber, no fiber, colostrum, laxatives, garlic, onion, carrot salad, coconut oil, vegan, carnivore, whey protein, one week fasting, typical western diet, plenty of sun and no stress on a tropical island for two months...

You name it.

If something as silly as a carrot salad worked, trust me I would have saved thousands of dollars and months of my life.

Obviously we know the goal is not to completely sterilize the gut. We know it's not physically feasible.

The only goal is to reduce the bacteria count to a viable minimum.

And antibiotics have a multiple fold reduction capacity compared to a carrot salad. The magnitude is not even remotely comparable.

Oh, and explain to me "antibiotic resistance". Georgi has debunked it multiple times.

Yeah you’re wrong. I’m like most people on here who have some form of gut issue(s).

So you’ve found your cure then? To be in control of the gut must be awesome, especially as so many things can go wrong down there.

For myself, the TL4 antagonists (as brought up on this forum) seem to keep things in check, and/or help. Serotonin antagonists are also useful. As is activated charcoal.

In terms of me recommending a carrot salad, sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you. It’s just one of those things that a person can try that is an actual food. So for people who can benefit from a dietary approach (first and foremost), as opposed to just diving into supplements/drugs, then some might consider trying that first. It doesn’t null and void it if it doesn’t have any effect for you, or others here.

But nothing wrong with anti-biotics, if they are working without issues. I once heard that Ray took a low dose once or twice per week. And because of that I once tried taking regular doxycycline at 25mg, twice per week. But I didn’t notice any effects really. I might get some more (perhaps some different ones) to experiment with when I next buy from the pharmacy.

 

[DANIEL]

When I start to feel off, I take penicillin vk for 2-4 days

where do you get your penicillin from? I'm looking for a reliable source

 

[boris]

where do you get your penicillin from? I'm looking for a reliable source

I had a big pack of 1.5 million IU tablets from an old prescription. It still lasts me since they are so concentrated. Doxycycline I got off the internet, in Germany there are "Fern-Arzt" services where you can get an online prescription from a doctor.

 

[boris]

@DANIΣL it's basically an online pharmacy where you get the prescription + the drug at once. Don't know if these exist in other countries.

 

[DANIEL]

@DANIΣL it's basically an online pharmacy where you get the prescription + the drug at once. Don't know if these exist in other countries.

Thanks

Not an option in the US unfortunately

 

[Amazoniac]

Oh, and explain to me "antibiotic resistance". Georgi has debunked it multiple times.

I never came across Jorge denying it, only criticizing that antibiotics are often blamed for the increased resistance when there are other contributing factors. I think that antibiotic resistance doesn't necessarily requires microbes getting resistant, it can be innate to them rather than acquired. Challenges (can be the antibiotic/pesticide exposure, temperature changes, and so on) should take down susceptible organisms and select those that can withstand and adapt.

- Antibiotic Resistance Mechanisms in Bacteria: Relationships Between Resistance Determinants of Antibiotic Producers, Environmental Bacteria, and Clinical Pathogens

"Discovery of antibiotics and their development for treatment of infectious diseases is the biggest success story in the history of chemotherapy. However, widespread and indiscriminate use of antibiotics in the last 70 years has led to selection of resistant strains to every antibiotic that has been introduced so far. With the very first antimicrobial agents, such as sulfonamides, resistance was observed soon after in the late 1930s (Davies and Davies, 2010). Even before the widespread use of penicillin in clinical practice, penicillinase was discovered in 1940 in Staphylococcus aureus and Streptococcus pneumoniae providing evidence that the resistance mechanisms against penicillin were already present in the natural environment (Davies and Davies, 2010; Ogawara, 2016b). Similarly, after the introduction of methicillin (a semi-synthetic penicillin) to treat penicillin-resistant S. aureus infections, resistance was once again observed in strains now referred to as MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) (Davies and Davies, 2010). These observations suggest that the use of each and every antibiotic sooner or later results in appearance of resistant strains. This is a testament to the extreme malleability and plasticity of bacterial genomes and their vast potential for adaptability. A high rate of spontaneous mutations and widely prevalent DNA exchange mechanisms in bacteria are critical contributors to the emergence of this phenomenon."​

- Antibiotic resistance management

"What constitutes appropriate use of antibiotics can be controversial. For instance, dead bugs can’t acquire resistance, so aggressively killing pathogenic bacteria with antibiotics can retard resistance evolution. But aggressive treatment also maximizes the evolutionary advantage of already resistant pathogens or of non-target bacteria that can be a source of resistance genes. Consequently, treatments designed to minimize the rate of resistance acquisition might not be best when resistance is already present [4]."​

Sometimes the gut is referred to as the 'second brain', but we know that it's the one in charge, in Prolactinese we have the brain-brain axis, a mentalization.

 

[TheBeard]

So I always learn from your posts, I agree with what you share and I have a very simikar journey to yours as in tried same things and still have really high endo toxin. Im trying Georgi's CamphSol and that helps hugely but Im guessing I cant stay on it!
Im nit sure if it wipes out mouth or gut bad bacteria but I take it and my severe insomnia goes away. Then if I stop taking it bad sleep happens.
Can you give me tips on what foods you live on & what antibiotic you used. Ive been unable to work for a long time due to the hut by a bus feeling, insomnia, weightloss etc and using Peat info I have improved heaps but the gut is such a mess and Im dealing to huge infestation if tapeworm which got made worse on my carnivore diet of 8mnths

Carnivore diet
Iodine
B vitamins
Vitamin D
Vitamin K

Abx I used: Augmentin + Azithromycin

 

[TheBeard]

Interesting, I always liked chewing honeycomb as a kid.


When I start to feel off, I take penicillin vk for 2-4 days. I think it's about 4-5 times this year. Occasionally I take doxycycline too, it immediately makes my stool quality perfect, but I don't like it too much because I have to stay away from cheese and milk for a few hours to not deactivate it, and I eat cheese or milk with every meal.

I am trying to get some amoxicillin or ampicillin prescribed and try a longer course of a few months since I suspect I might have "lupus".

You said you had some negative effects during the amoxicillin/augmentin course? Which antibiotics do you prefer?

Azithromycin makes me feel like a million bucks.
Augmentin makes me feel off, like I've become too slow for the world.

However I took both as they cover almost the whole bacteria genus spectrum.

 

[yerrag]

Kefir was introduced first. Endotoxin symptoms showed up on the very first day, cloudy mind, joint pains, suddenly needed to go to the chiropractor after 3 years not needing to.
Powered through it in the hope the good bacteria would kill the bad ones and candida.

Introduced Sauerkraut around three week after in the hope that diversity would finally cut it.
It didn't.

Just throwing some darts at the board :

The joint pain - could it be because there's plenty lactic acid in fermented food, and your system is on the edge in terms of pH balance? Maybe it pushed your system over to acidic edge and you felt it in joint pains. Uric acid, for example, could crystallize at a certain level of acidity. Testing your urine for your pH condition before and after may have helped. But we wouldn't know now, but at least checking on your urine pH could still help. A urine pH of 6.5-6.8 is optimal, mapping to a blood pH around 7.4, which is optimal.

The brain fogginess - can't help but think it's serotonin-related. Assuming it is, why is serotonin increased? Perhaps you should instead be lowering the bacteria levels, not increasing it? Maybe not with antibiotics, as you seem to have already tried it and you need a break from it. Perhaps a protocol of biofilm disrupters as well as some wide-spectrum anti-pathogens (bacteria, virus, fungi, archaea). Some biofilm disruptors - protease enzymes, d-ribose, erythritol, chitosan (especially for fungi biofilms), lactoferrin, ceylon cinnamon, to name a few; some antibacterials - copper acetate or colloidal silver, chlorine dioxide solution (I've used 30ppm at a liter a day), grated mature coconut flesh (to release vco in the colon, as vco easily gets absorbed in the small intestine) - these don't confer resistance on many bacteria.

I think the action has to be gentle so that the combined action of biofilm disruptors and antibacterials will work slowly over time and not shock the system. The biofilm is the part most often left untouched by mere antibiotics without effective biofilm disruptor support, and the surviving anaerobic bacteria hiding behind the biofilms become more dominant with each antibiotic use. Maybe just using probiotics does nothing as the probiotics - which are fermentative anaerobic bacteria, should be able to counter the putrefactive anaerobic bacteria - except that the putrefactive anaerobic bacteria are protected by the biofilm. So the fermentative bacteria (from kefir and sauerkraut) may not be able to survive without penetrating into an anaerobic or anoxic environment, and cannot survive in the remaining aerobic environment in the colon. They end up dying an their die-off gives you LPS problems as well.

 

[Dr. B]

I haven't read anything in Ray's wok to suggest he thinks that manipulating gut bacteria. as opposed to sterilization, is unfounded. I assume he is more concerned about the safety of attempting to do so. Modern day bodybuilders are fixing. to varying degrees of success, their infamous "bubble guts" by taking specific probiotics and cutting out artificial sweeteners (which cause dysbiosis). There are real world examples of these therapies working. A therapy that falls under taking part in a mass experiment, and thus Ray's reluctance to endorse it, and his preference for safe antibiotics.

yeah i used to use whey powders with sucralose/acefulsame potassium for a long time and they do seem to cause leaky gut symptoms as well as even acne.
what are bodybuilders doing to fix their bubble guts besides stopping the artificial sweetener consumption? does raw honey help get rid of gut bacteria?

Oh, and these idiots are qualifying a regained sexual desire and erections as an "adverse event" after antibiotics usage, can't stop laughing :

Uncontrolled penile erection and increased sexual desire with intravenous moxifloxacin

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

what about the bacteria in raw milk? doesnt that have significant bacteria? and what about raw honey does that reduce bacteria

 

[Broken man]

hat are bodybuilders doing to fix their bubble guts besides stopping the

I saw one of them wearing belt..... some use low dose naltrexone.

 

[JacquelineNZ]

I've tried all natural antibiotics, up to very high doses:

Garlic
Onion
Berberine
Oregano
Turpentine
Ox Bile
Etc...

Not one came even close to the potency of Rx abx.
Not one gave me a Herxheimer reaction.

With Augmentin and Azithromycin, I had cold sweats at night, I would drench my bed sheets for two nights in a raw, then wake up one morning and feel better than ever.

I have really bad gut issues and had huge tape worm infestation, Im trying all sorts snd have had huge improvement but cant get on top of bad gut bacteria, well its in large intestine. Im trying Turpentine and have knocked out more big tape worms & the herx is full on.
Im thinking I may have to resort to anti biotic too.
Is Ray saying in his info some fibre like psylium is ok when needed? I dont do any grains. Just protein and fruits & carrot salad.
Feel like I need more bulk to get better bowel motions.
Am waiting on Cascara to come from USA as well.