The delusion of "good bacteria"

[TheBeard]

What is it with you "new" people that come out of the woodwork and are either intentionally obtuse or just have serious comprehension issues on this forum?? Especially in 2020, which makes it highly suspicious.
He's laughing because the study is moronic to equate sexual function and erections with "adverse event." What is it that you aren't getting here?

Thanks jb.
I was starting to think I was the only one normal here.

 

[TheBeard]

If gut bacteria were so universally bad, and their effects so systematic, just blasting antibiotics should improve the overall health and performance of anyone, and the results should be so evident it should be impossible to miss and to keep obscure. Unlike PUFA depletion, antibiotic nuking shouldn't take years or even weeks. I just don't buy this sterile gut stuff just because some people had positive effects of supposedly antibacterial treatments. Even peat has talked about vitamin k producing bacteria or benefits of lactobacilli.

You are literally describing me and a few others whose anecdotal evidence I've read on RPF or Reddit:
uppon starting an antibiotic course for a completely different reason than gut bacteria (eyelid in my case), we noticed a rapid health improvement due to lowering gut bacteria count. And as you say, the improvement was a matter of days, it was instant.
I believe abx have anti inflammatory properties in and of themselves, but I'm also sure it's thanks to the endotoxin reduction.

Once I'm passed the heavy night sweats and diarrhea of the first two days that are due to the Herxheimer reaction, I'm back to feeling like I used to when I was a kid and my health was bliss.

Peat has talked about supplementing vitamin K, so who cares if your body can't produce it.

 

[TheBeard]

I haven't read anything in Ray's wok to suggest he thinks that manipulating gut bacteria. as opposed to sterilization, is unfounded. I assume he is more concerned about the safety of attempting to do so. Modern day bodybuilders are fixing. to varying degrees of success, their infamous "bubble guts" by taking specific probiotics and cutting out artificial sweeteners (which cause dysbiosis). There are real world examples of these therapies working. A therapy that falls under taking part in a mass experiment, and thus Ray's reluctance to endorse it, and his preference for safe antibiotics.

Bbers whose guts were distanded because of GH, insulin, and massive food intake, are lucky because it's completely reversible.
It seems like the majority.
They just stop eating that much and it goes away.

I'd like to see any of them reverse SIBO. I even doubt they know it's a condition eventhough they are surrounded by top MDs.

Luckily for them, they took so much AAS and so much GH that their gut barrier and motility are strong af and will never suffer IBS or related gut disease.

 

[TheBeard]

I don’t think anyone has ever said that having a sterile gut is possible. Peat has never said that. It’s an idealistic concept. In a perfect world, yes, get rid of the bactéria and goodbye to endotoxin. Your food would still digest and go where it needs to go without bacteria. Peat takes occasional very low dose antibiotics, and aims for daily carrot salads/mushrooms and/or bamboo shoots. He will be the first to tell you that it’s damage limitation (or a ‘managing’), not ‘elimination’ of this issue. He’s already talked about how it’s inevitable that we live with such things. Nobody here is silly enough to think that they can aim for a sterile gut. It’s about keeping the terrain in good state. Accepting that the bacteria are there (and always will be), but ensuring that they don’t get out of control.

A simple carrot salad is one method that Dr Peat recommends because, if prepared in the correct way, and taken everyday, it can sweep through and bring about mild daily changes that, eventually, lead to longer term results. Does it eliminate bacteria down there? No. But nothing will. Every time you eat, you will re-introduce bacteria regardless (no matter what approach you try to take). So it’s about managing your defense to these insults.

Continuous use of anti-biotics is (IMO) pointless, unless you want to grow tolerant to them. Just like other drugs, your body will soon adapt to them. So even if you wanted to take them long term, your body would eventually learn how to adapt and excrete it (rendering the anti-biotic useless).

By your logic, my body would just as much adapt to my daily garlic+carrot+ACV and make its antibacterial activities useless overtime.

I think (tell me if I'm wrong) that you are talking from the perspective of someone who hasn't had real gut issues.
Let me tell you why:

I have been feeling like a 36 tons truck hit me, upon waking, every single day for three years.
My nausea was so bad I was never hungry, that I couldn't drink or even smell a drop of alcohol, lost 25 pounds in half a year, would forget everything and couldn't formulate an idea.

When you reach this point, you try everything:
Fiber, no fiber, colostrum, laxatives, garlic, onion, carrot salad, coconut oil, vegan, carnivore, whey protein, one week fasting, typical western diet, plenty of sun and no stress on a tropical island for two months...

You name it.

If something as silly as a carrot salad worked, trust me I would have saved thousands of dollars and months of my life.

Obviously we know the goal is not to completely sterilize the gut. We know it's not physically feasible.

The only goal is to reduce the bacteria count to a viable minimum.

And antibiotics have a multiple fold reduction capacity compared to a carrot salad. The magnitude is not even remotely comparable.

Oh, and explain to me "antibiotic resistance". Georgi has debunked it multiple times.

 

[Nomane Euger]

By your logic, my body would just as much adapt to my daily garlic+carrot+ACV and make its antibacterial activities useless overtime.

I think (tell me if I'm wrong) that you are talking from the perspective of someone who hasn't had real gut issues.
Let me tell you why:

I have been feeling like a 36 tons truck hit me, upon waking, every single day for three years.
My nausea was so bad I was never hungry, that I couldn't drink or even smell a drop of alcohol, lost 25 pounds in half a year, would forget everything and couldn't formulate an idea.

When you reach this point, you try everything:
Fiber, no fiber, colostrum, laxatives, garlic, onion, carrot salad, coconut oil, vegan, carnivore, whey protein, one week fasting, typical western diet, plenty of sun and no stress on a tropical island for two months...

You name it.

If something as silly as a carrot salad worked, trust me I would have saved thousands of dollars and months of my life.

Obviously we know the goal is not to completely sterilize the gut. We know it's not physically feasible.

The only goal is to reduce the bacteria count to a viable minimum.

And antibiotics have a multiple fold reduction capacity compared to a carrot salad. The magnitude is not even remotely comparable.

Oh, and explain to me "antibiotic resistance". Georgi has debunked it multiple times.

Can you share more details about the symptoms you experienced when yook took the antibiotic such a night sweat?do you think there is "natural"substances from food or foods that are as potent as some potent anti biotics?the first time i ate honney comb,i had wafull nightmare for 4 days,with nightsweet and awakening,but my nosed cleared up like it never did in my 25 years existence and i got an animal smell for the first time of my life,it lasted only few days,wonder if its do the the anti microbial property of some of the compounds in the comb wether propolis,comb,venum....Etc

 

[TheBeard]

Can you share more details about the symptoms you experienced when yook took the antibiotic such a night sweat?do you think there is "natural"substances from food or foods that are as potent as some potent anti biotics?the first time i ate honney comb,i had wafull nightmare for 4 days,with nightsweet and awakening,but my nosed cleared up like it never did in my 25 years existence and i got an animal smell for the first time of my life,it lasted only few days,wonder if its do the the anti microbial property of some of the compounds in the comb wether propolis,comb,venum....Etc

I've tried all natural antibiotics, up to very high doses:

Garlic
Onion
Berberine
Oregano
Turpentine
Ox Bile
Etc...

Not one came even close to the potency of Rx abx.
Not one gave me a Herxheimer reaction.

With Augmentin and Azithromycin, I had cold sweats at night, I would drench my bed sheets for two nights in a raw, then wake up one morning and feel better than ever.

 

[Quelsatron]

You are literally describing me and a few others whose anecdotal evidence I've read on RPF or Reddit:
uppon starting an antibiotic course for a completely different reason than gut bacteria (eyelid in my case), we noticed a rapid health improvement due to lowering gut bacteria count. And as you say, the improvement was a matter of days, it was instant.
I believe abx have anti inflammatory properties in and of themselves, but I'm also sure it's thanks to the endotoxin reduction.

Once I'm passed the heavy night sweats and diarrhea of the first two days that are due to the Herxheimer reaction, I'm back to feeling like I used to when I was a kid and my health was bliss.

Peat has talked about supplementing vitamin K, so who cares if your body can't produce it.

The key term here is "me and a few others". Of course I don't contest the dangers of gut bacteria, but if it was a panacea then it would be obvious to everyone, every time.

 

[TheBeard]

The key term here is "me and a few others". Of course I don't contest the dangers of gut bacteria, but if it was a panacea then it would be obvious to everyone, every time.

I can only wonder why not more people have tried this remedy for their ailments, not force them...

 

[boris]

I can only wonder why not more people have tried this remedy for their ailments, not force them...

Many people never learned to pay close attention to the different sensations you get from ingesting something, or how your mood and behaviour gets affected. I noticed my brother in the past when he would get a course of antibiotics for an infection, his creativity was on a completely different level. The artworks had a certain quality and refinement to them that subsided again after a few weeks of a standard diet.

When I take penicillin, I almost feel like on a psychedelic drug, without any sedating or hallucinogenic effects. Mental images have more plasticity to them and the colours around me are more bright and intense even in winter. It must be a low serotonin state, as opposed to a high serotonin state, when everything looks grey and the imagination is dulled.

 

[DANIEL]

When I take penicillin, I almost feel like on a psychedelic drug, without any sedating or hallucinogenic effects. Mental images have more plasticity to them and the colours around me are more bright and intense even in winter. It must be a low serotonin state, as opposed to a high serotonin state, when everything looks grey and the imagination is dulled.

dosage/frequency?

 

[boris]

dosage/frequency?

About 500-1000mg a day (800k to 1.6 million IU), sometimes I need way less (around 250mg/400k IU). Spread throughout the day in small pieces. Always well chewed with lots of food and milk or juice.

When you swallow the whole tablet as intended it can produce tissue damage wherever it get‘s stuck in your gut and cause nausea. Chewing it well and diluting with food and drinks never caused a problem for me.

Usually I take them for only a few days. I‘ll try a longer course to see if it resolves some other issues or not (or causes any).

 

[DANIEL]

About 500-1000mg a day (800k to 1.6 million IU), sometimes I need way less (around 250mg/400k IU). Spread throughout the day in small pieces. Always well chewed with lots of food and milk or juice.

When you swallow the whole tablet as intended it can produce tissue damage wherever it get‘s stuck in your gut and cause nausea. Chewing it well and diluting with food and drinks never caused a problem for me.

Usually I take them for only a few days. I‘ll try a longer course to see if it resolves some other issues or not (or causes any).

Thanks.

Right now I'm interested in experimenting with a 10-day course of Penicillin VK (500 mg 3x daily) to see if antibiotics will have a positive effect on me

I'm leaning towards that specific antibiotic because I hear that it's the safest one to use

Has anyone who's reading this tried out that dosage/duration?

 

[GelatinGoblin]

You sound very dogmatic. My colleagues friend cured her chrons, aside from the lingering scars, with a fecal transplant. Nobody has a full understanding of the microbiome, writing it all off is a huge mistake. If all you had to do was chug antibiotics all day to cure any condition caused by gut bacteria it would already be common practice.

That is the Bacteria of the Colon. Any ingested probiotics rarely make it to the Colon and change any Microbiome. The upper digestive system should be sterilise. So yeah a Fecal Transplant would actually be effective, unlike fermented foods and whatnot.
I mean, this is it pretty much it. You can change the Microbiome via Fecal Transplant, the Microbiome at the Colon that is, anywhere else should be sterilise. It is taxing to digest fermented foods.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

You sound very dogmatic. My colleagues friend cured her chrons, aside from the lingering scars, with a fecal transplant. Nobody has a full understanding of the microbiome, writing it all off is a huge mistake. If all you had to do was chug antibiotics all day to cure any condition caused by gut bacteria it would already be common practice.

That is the Bacteria of the Colon. Any ingested probiotics rarely make it to the Colon and change any Microbiome. The upper digestive system should be sterilise. So yeah a Fecal Transplant would actually be effective, unlike fermented foods and whatnot.
I mean, this is it pretty much it. You can change the Microbiome via Fecal Transplant, the Microbiome at the Colon that is, anywhere else should be sterilise.

 

[Blaze]

Well now I have yet another reason to laugh: you not understanding why the study I posted is stupid.

Obviously you are inferring without saying it , that you are smarter than the rest of us here. Insulting and Laughing at people you disagree with, and being shamelessly offensive....great intellectual strategy. I'm sure we are all feeling more motivated to come over to your viewpoint now. In the future I will adhere to your dogma only. My apologies for any independent non-beard conforming thoughts I might have had previously. I see now how wrong that was.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Obviously you are inferring without saying it , that you are smarter than the rest of us here. Insulting and Laughing at people you disagree with, and being shamelessly offensive....great intellectual strategy. I'm sure we are all feeling more motivated to come over to your viewpoint now. In the future I will adhere to your dogma only. My apologies for any independent non-beard conforming thoughts I might have had previously. I see now how wrong that was.

TheBeard has been very adamant on sticking out for sometime now ? Where will we be without him... I too wasn't a follower, cleanse yourself of all that is non- Beard. For in heaven, you will receive an ample supply of Transsexual women and Testosterone cream.

Jk love you @TheBeard <3 <3

 

[Perry Staltic]

Any ingested probiotics rarely make it to the Colon and change any Microbiome

Spore forming probiotics (e.g., clausii, subtilis, coagulens) supposedly can make the trip.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

Spore forming probiotics (e.g., clausii, subtilis, coagulens) supposedly can make the trip.

I've heard a few examples. Still don't think it matters much when compared to improving Thyroid function, CO2, Red Light, etc etc....

 

[Perry Staltic]

42% reduction in endotoxins and 24% reduction in triglycerides

Oral spore-based probiotic supplementation was associated with reduced incidence of post-prandial dietary endotoxin, triglycerides, and disease risk biomarkers

Oral spore-based probiotic supplementation was associated with reduced incidence of post-prandial dietary endotoxin, triglycerides, and disease risk biomarkers

www.wjgnet.com

 

[lvysaur]

Augmen

Have you ever had any weird "withdrawal" type effects after using antibiotics?

I've used Augmentin (Amoxicillin) twice, the first time I took it for 1 week, and I had a severe reaction after 1 month--extremely low oxygen, fast heartbeat, and melanin deposits on my fingers.

I had COVID too so it could also be due to that.

I used it again a 2nd time after that and it never happened.