Tarmanders Auto-Immune Log

[Giraffe]

A couple of unrelated thoughts...

Vitamin B1 supplementation is often advised here to improve the liver's ability to store glycogen. I am trying this and my sleep (duration) is improving. Progess is slow, it might have happened anyway.

Do you practise anything (autosuggestion, breathing exercises ...) to get stress hormones down?

Are there any short-/midterm targets you have? Ailments not necessarily related to diabetes?

How do you evaluate progress?

 

[Tarmander]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95738/ A couple of unrelated thoughts...

Vitamin B1 supplementation is often advised here to improve the liver's ability to store glycogen. I am trying this and my sleep (duration) is improving. Progess is slow, it might have happened anyway.

Do you practise anything (autosuggestion, breathing exercises ...) to get stress hormones down?

Are there any short-/midterm targets you have? Ailments not necessarily related to diabetes?

How do you evaluate progress?

I tried B1 for maybe a week or so, I noticed that I sweat more. Maybe I should try it again on a more long term basis.

I used to meditate quite a lot...like 2 times a day, along with some breathing exercises. I did this for probably 4 years or so and ended up dropping it after some kundalini syndrome stuff came up. The whole experience spooked me a bit, and it really is not something I want to dive into right now.

You ask some good questions though. How do I evaluate progress? What are my goals/ailments other then diabetes?

As far as other ailments, I have always had trouble sleeping, even when I was little. So I would like to move in a direction that makes sleep easier and more effortless.

Also, my body shows signs of constant exposure to stress hormones on a long term basis. I do not have a lot of muscle tone, and tend to store fat in those areas that would coincide with cortisol exposure.

What does progress look like? Long term, it would be an increase in muscle tone with a lowering of signs of exposure to stress. I would probably lose a little weight. However for this to be a success it would also have to be coinciding with better sleep. I can lose weight if I want to, but my metabolism will suffer (Temps drop), along with trouble sleeping. It seems like my body just wants to keep the weight on for stability.

Midterm targets mostly have to do with supplements. I have been taking Estroban, along with MB and B6 and some other things. Other then Estroban, I am not able to take the other supplements every day without overloading on stress. So Midterm, I want to be able to stick with Estroban and have some of the changes that exposure to fat soluble vitamins can have. I am not even on my second bottle of Estroban, I would like to get through at least 3. I want to be able to take MB more often and see what that does for me as well. Also, I want to continue to learn about pregenolone.

I think those are some good mid term and long term goals. I think progress can be evaluated by looking at muscle tone, hair thickness (it has increased since taking estroban), strength of personality, and ability to sleep.

 

[DaveFoster]

Thank you for the links Dave. Do you have any reference to insulin inhibiting cortisol? My understanding is that you could have both in your system at the same time, especially in situations with low blood sugar. It would be great if I could just shoot up insulin and have a cortisol lowering effect but I have not noticed this.

It's common knowledge in the medical community that insulin inhibits cortisol. See here. #4 explains this.

The following is a study conducted by the American Diabetes Association that measures the levels of cortisol in those with Type 2 diabetes.

Cortisol Secretion in Patients With Type 2 Diabetes
OBJECTIVE—The presence of an enhanced cortisol secretion in patients with type 2 diabetes is debated. In type 2 diabetic subjects, cortisol secretion was found to be associated with the complications and metabolic control of diabetes. We evaluated cortisol secretion in 170 type 2 diabetic subjects and in 71 sex-, age-, and BMI-matched nondiabetic subjects.

RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS—In all subjects, we evaluated ACTH at 8:00 a.m. in basal conditions and serum cortisol levels at 12:00 p.m. (F24) and at 9:00 a.m. after a 1-mg overnight dexamethasone suppression test and 24-h urinary free cortisol (UFC). In diabetic patients, we evaluated the presence of chronic complications (incipient nephropathy, asymptomatic neuropathy, background retinopathy, and silent macroangiopathy). Patients were subdivided according to the absence (group 1, n = 53) or presence (group 2, n = 117) of diabetes complications.

RESULTS—In group 2, UFC (125.2 ± 4.6 nmol/24 h) and F24 (120.6 ± 4.1 nmol/l) were higher than in group 1 (109.2 ± 6.8 nmol/24 h, P = 0.057, and 99.7 ± 6.1 nmol/l, P = 0.005, respectively) and in nondiabetic patients (101.7 ± 5.9 nmol/24 h, P = 0.002, and 100.3 ± 5.3 nmol/l, P = 0.003, respectively). In diabetic patients, the number of complications was associated with F24 (R = 0.345; P < 0.0001) and diabetes duration (R = 0.39; P < 0.0001). Logistic regression analysis showed that the presence of diabetes complications was significantly associated with F24, sex, duration of diabetes, and glycated hemoglobin.

CONCLUSIONS—In type 2 diabetic subjects, hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal activity is enhanced in patients with diabetes complications and the degree of cortisol secretion is related to the presence and number of diabetes complications.

Cortisol is definitely a key player. As one hypothesis, elevated levels of cortisol from metabolic and psychological stress impact the role of insulin in the body, which negatively impacts the function of the pancreas, possibly creating a negative feedback loop that either temporarily or permanently disrupts pancreatic activity. This is assuming that the relation is causal rather than correlative, which is a massive assumption.

 

[Giraffe]

Overall it sounds like getting stress hormones down and improving sleep are your main issues at the moment.

I found progressive muscle relaxation (Jacobson) helpful to spot muscle tension earlier. Power posing (confident pose => less cortisol, more testosteron) is an option, too. Both do not require much practice. There are many non-spiritual tools out there to deal with stress.

Sleep is an issue for me, too. In the last months I saw improvements in some aspects (no longer wake up at night, feel refreshed in the morning). Not to be able to fall asleep fast is a life-long problem though. A couple of years ago I got a prescription for a muscle relaxant to help with sleep. Ten minutes after I took the stuff I was sound asleep, woke up four hours later and felt refreshed and energized. Now I often try to find into sleep by relaxing muscles, but this (for me at least) requires constant practice.

I think some supplements are tricky. I have it clear what I hope before I try a supplement; but what is the timeframe in which to expect results, and what do unexpected effects tell me about my body? When getting off supplementing?

What do you think about the sweating after taking vitamin B1? Higher metabolic rate or stress?

Pregnenolone kicks in within an hour or less, this helps with dosing. I would guess that for you 200 mg (orally) is enough for a week, even less if you also supplement DHEA. When I started supplementing pregnenolone my temps went up a bit and muscles were a bit easier to relax. If I were you, I would probably try 10-50 mg next time and check if this has an effect and how long the effect lasts.

 

[Tarmander]

post 95971

Thank you for the links Dave. Do you have any reference to insulin inhibiting cortisol? My understanding is that you could have both in your system at the same time, especially in situations with low blood sugar. It would be great if I could just shoot up insulin and have a cortisol lowering effect but I have not noticed this.

It's common knowledge in the medical community that insulin inhibits cortisol. See here. #4 explains this.

The following is a study conducted by the American Diabetes Association that measures the levels of cortisol in those with Type 2 diabetes.

Cortisol Secretion in Patients With Type 2 Diabetes
OBJECTIVE—The presence of an enhanced cortisol secretion in patients with type 2 diabetes is debated. In type 2 diabetic subjects, cortisol secretion was found to be associated with the complications and metabolic control of diabetes. We evaluated cortisol secretion in 170 type 2 diabetic subjects and in 71 sex-, age-, and BMI-matched nondiabetic subjects.

RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS—In all subjects, we evaluated ACTH at 8:00 a.m. in basal conditions and serum cortisol levels at 12:00 p.m. (F24) and at 9:00 a.m. after a 1-mg overnight dexamethasone suppression test and 24-h urinary free cortisol (UFC). In diabetic patients, we evaluated the presence of chronic complications (incipient nephropathy, asymptomatic neuropathy, background retinopathy, and silent macroangiopathy). Patients were subdivided according to the absence (group 1, n = 53) or presence (group 2, n = 117) of diabetes complications.

RESULTS—In group 2, UFC (125.2 ± 4.6 nmol/24 h) and F24 (120.6 ± 4.1 nmol/l) were higher than in group 1 (109.2 ± 6.8 nmol/24 h, P = 0.057, and 99.7 ± 6.1 nmol/l, P = 0.005, respectively) and in nondiabetic patients (101.7 ± 5.9 nmol/24 h, P = 0.002, and 100.3 ± 5.3 nmol/l, P = 0.003, respectively). In diabetic patients, the number of complications was associated with F24 (R = 0.345; P < 0.0001) and diabetes duration (R = 0.39; P < 0.0001). Logistic regression analysis showed that the presence of diabetes complications was significantly associated with F24, sex, duration of diabetes, and glycated hemoglobin.

CONCLUSIONS—In type 2 diabetic subjects, hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal activity is enhanced in patients with diabetes complications and the degree of cortisol secretion is related to the presence and number of diabetes complications.

Cortisol is definitely a key player. As one hypothesis, elevated levels of cortisol from metabolic and psychological stress impact the role of insulin in the body, which negatively impacts the function of the pancreas, possibly creating a negative feedback loop that either temporarily or permanently disrupts pancreatic activity. This is assuming that the relation is causal rather than correlative, which is a massive assumption.

Thanks for the study Dave. I looked at the link, and while it talks about cortisol and insulin, and how a rise in cortisol will inhibit insulin production, it does not actually say that insulin will inhibit cortisol. When I take B6, I can actually feel a drop in cortisol, insulin just doesn't do this when I take it. If you find something saying that insulin actually inhibits cortisol/cortisol production, I would love to see it.

 

[Tarmander]

post 96226 Overall it sounds like getting stress hormones down and improving sleep are your main issues at the moment.

I found progressive muscle relaxation (Jacobson) helpful to spot muscle tension earlier. Power posing (confident pose => less cortisol, more testosteron) is an option, too. Both do not require much practice. There are many non-spiritual tools out there to deal with stress.

Sleep is an issue for me, too. In the last months I saw improvements in some aspects (no longer wake up at night, feel refreshed in the morning). Not to be able to fall asleep fast is a life-long problem though. A couple of years ago I got a prescription for a muscle relaxant to help with sleep. Ten minutes after I took the stuff I was sound asleep, woke up four hours later and felt refreshed and energized. Now I often try to find into sleep by relaxing muscles, but this (for me at least) requires constant practice.

I think some supplements are tricky. I have it clear what I hope before I try a supplement; but what is the timeframe in which to expect results, and what do unexpected effects tell me about my body? When getting off supplementing?

What do you think about the sweating after taking vitamin B1? Higher metabolic rate or stress?

Pregnenolone kicks in within an hour or less, this helps with dosing. I would guess that for you 200 mg (orally) is enough for a week, even less if you also supplement DHEA. When I started supplementing pregnenolone my temps went up a bit and muscles were a bit easier to relax. If I were you, I would probably try 10-50 mg next time and check if this has an effect and how long the effect lasts.

Thanks for the response Giraffe. Yes I think you summed it up nicely with the stress hormones and the sleep being the big focuses. I have now tried pregenolone a second time and really like it. I will update further down with my experiences on it.

I have heard of others who sweat during B1...I was taking the benfotiamine form, and I think it just increases CO2 if I remember correctly. That increase in CO2 causes water to be expelled from the cells. I think ray talks about it in a story about a guy in a hyperbarric chamber or something who has CO2 accidentally hosed in.

Falling asleep fast is like being gifted by the Gods or something, so elusive!

 

[Tarmander]

Update:

In the last few weeks, my skin, teeth, and energy levels have been better then they have in a long time, especially the skin. My facial skin is so smooth, along with the skin on my back. I attribute this to a few things, mostly the pregnenolone and the estroban. But I think the MB I have been taking has also helped.

I am now taking 6-7 drops of haidut's estroban per day. This definitely feels like an accomplishment as I have always been quite sensitive to vitamin E and K in regards to insomnia. I think with them all complexed together, they are less intense. I also notice I feel pretty "manly" for a few hours after taking estroban. I used to get this effect mostly from eating liver. After a few days, I would lose that strong, confident feeling, and so I would eat more liver. With Estroban, I have actually forgotten to take liver a few times. So it works pretty well, I recommend it. Oh also, my teeth are pretty nice and white from the K2.

I have been taking pregnenolone at 200-300mg doses every week or so. I just took my third dose yesterday. It freaks me out a bit because I have read stories of people losing their hair on pregnenolone, or having other unwanted effects. But it seems for me to be very effective at softening my skin, giving me energy, and just in general making me feel more resistant. I can just DO more when I have taken a dose within the last few days. My face even looks younger, my muscles seem more toned, my skin seems tighter. It is pretty great stuff.

Now onto MB...oh MB...you are a fickle mistress. I was taking one drop per day for awhile (400mcg), and it just felt very disruptive. I could not figure out if it was making me feel tired, or energized, or what. MB was just confusing. But I wanted to give it another chance, so I started taking one drop three times per day, or 2 drops a couple times per day. Oh man, can this stuff be great. At times, my brain felt like it did when I was a kid. I had all these thoughts that were goofy and fun, and I noticed my family was happier to be around me. I felt smarter, I felt faster, more energetic, and I think it helped my skin a bit as well.

However, I also felt my kidney function declined. Even if I took MB in the morning only, I would have to pee every hour for the next day it seemed. I would wake up every few hours and have to pee. In fact, an hour or two after taking MB, I was peeing every 30-45 minutes it seemed. I am not sure if it was kidney function, or getting rid of excess water, or what. But when I don't take it, I do not pee like a pregnant woman.

The other side effect of MB is that I actually felt a little crazy sometimes, especially when I was doing like 1.6mg of it per day. I felt a little manic in my mind. My libido, and need to connect with others really sky rocketed. All of a sudden I was bugging my friends to talk and calling girls for hook ups. There were some late night rendezvous that I do not think would have happen if MB was not involved. I had more energy, but that energy had to be unleashed, and it was a bit scary. I wonder sometimes if people have low metabolisms to compensate for negative emotions and actions. When you are dull, it is easier to stay in control.

Because of this, and its disruption on sleep, I have backed off on using it, but I always know MB is there if I need to be sharp.

Other then that, the only thing to report now is that I am having more trouble sleeping then I was when I was not doing estroban, preg, or MB. The benefits to my skin and other areas in life seem to outweigh the sleep draw backs for now. I have found niacinamide crucial to falling asleep, and without it, sleep almost impossible at any reasonable hour. I put about a 1.5 grams of niacinamide in water, and put it by my bed. If I take the niacinamide before I go to sleep, it energizes me. However if I wait until I cannot fall asleep for about an hour, and then take it, it puts me right out. So that has been my strategy.

Thanks for reading!

 

[charlie]

Great update!

 

[Blossom]

MB in the micrograms seems to make me pee more too Tarmander. It sounds like you've had some nice improvements.

 

[Tarmander]

Thanks guys!

post 98920 Great update!

Charlie have you experimented with MB any more and had any results?

post 98933 MB in the micrograms seems to make me pee more too Tarmander. It sounds like you've had some nice improvements.

Any idea why this happens, or what you could do to mitigate it? One thing I notice is that I am not more thirsty, it's just like what I do drink ends up moving very quickly through me.

 

[charlie]

post 98940 Charlie have you experimented with MB any more and had any results?

Yes. MB works.

 

[lexis]

DHEA is said to regenerate the beta cells

 

[Blossom]

post 98940 Thanks guys!

post 98920 Great update!

Charlie have you experimented with MB any more and had any results?

post 98933 MB in the micrograms seems to make me pee more too Tarmander. It sounds like you've had some nice improvements.

Any idea why this happens, or what you could do to mitigate it? One thing I notice is that I am not more thirsty, it's just like what I do drink ends up moving very quickly through me.

No, sorry. It's not bothersome just noticeable so I haven't given it much thought really.

 

[charlie]

To me, this frequent peeing sounds like adrenaline. Makes me think the methylene blue raised thyroid function enough that adrenaline receptors might have become more sensitive so that they need to dial down which takes some time. Wondering if taurine might help in that situation. Definitely sounds like a stress reaction though. It can be quite stressful getting this old broken down body going again.

 

[Blossom]

post 98981 To me, this frequent peeing sounds like adrenaline. Makes me think the methylene blue raised thyroid function enough that adrenaline receptors might have become more sensitive so that they need to dial down which takes some time. Wondering if taurine might help in that situation. Definitely sounds like a stress reaction though. It can be quite stressful getting this old broken down body going again.

Definitely sounds plausible to me. Thanks for mentioning that Charlie.

 

[Giraffe]

Tarmander, don't know if you this one... 2012-05-18 Autoimmune and Movement

In short: The gap between stimulation and energy resources kills cells. Then at 25:14

Diabetes even involves inflammation and the failure to regenerate properly. The beta cells are being killed in the same way that brain cells are being killed. Instead of making insulin as the cells are renewed, the cells are killed as fast as they are renewed. So they stop making insulin, but if you stop killing them they can start making insulin again. - RP

 

[tanneron]

What is MB? Methylene bluie?

 

[Blossom]

post 100396 What is MB? Methylene bluie?

Yes.

 

[Tarmander]

post 100258 Tarmander, don't know if you this one... 2012-05-18 Autoimmune and Movement

In short: The gap between stimulation and energy resources kills cells. Then at 25:14

Diabetes even involves inflammation and the failure to regenerate properly. The beta cells are being killed in the same way that brain cells are being killed. Instead of making insulin as the cells are renewed, the cells are killed as fast as they are renewed. So they stop making insulin, but if you stop killing them they can start making insulin again. - RP

Thanks Giraffe, I had seen that one before. I am not sure how much he is talking about type 1 or type 2, but its a promising quote isn't it?

I will do a more detailed update in a couple weeks with more testing, but I am finding some great results with combining MB and Pregnenolone. The MB always zooms me up, makes it hard to sleep even if I just take it in the morning. Pregnenolone however knocks me out big time. I think kicking the cortisol to the curb with Preg just puts me on my butt. So I have been doing 3 drops of MB in the morning, which is 1.2mg, and then 100-150mg of Preg in the afternoon. I get the benefits of the MB, and the sleep of the Preg. I do this like every other day. I will do some more testing and write more later.

 

[Tarmander]

Okay, it’s been about a month and a half and I wanted to post some updates on some experiments and thoughts I have had along the way.

•I was reading a post by Haidut and he talked about how over the lifetime of his posts, a comprehensive picture emerges when looking at all the studies. This structure supports Peat and gives an understanding of the organism. So I decided that I would start going back through Haidut’s posts and reading all the studies, and writing down notes on substances and interesting tidbits. This is quite a large project, and I have only gone through some 20-30 “pages” with over 120 to go. Plus Haidut keeps posting which is super annoyingly awesome. So I am not sure when I will finish. But I decided to attach my notes here to the post for anyone else who is interested. I have it in alphabetical order, but other than that it is in rough shape, and organization minimal. So just keep that in mind if you look through it.

•My job is selling health and beauty products, and this includes some supplement lines. I went to a fish oil conference at the beginning of this month, and they gave us a free blood test looking at the different kinds of fats in our blood stream. I have uploaded a picture of the main results. Obviously, they were looking at omega 3 levels, but I found the saturated and the omega 6 levels particularly interesting. I have only been restricting PUFA for probably 6 months strictly, and 1 year less strictly.



The Omega 6 seems pretty high even for the low amount of PUFA I eat. I talked to one of the guys there who helped develop the test and he said the lowest he has ever seen someone’s omega 6 is around the 15% range. The other interesting part is that my omega 3 level was decently high. When I asked him about this and mentioned that I do not take fish oil, or really any other PUFA, he said my high omega 3 level was probably due to my restriction of omega 6. He then showed me a study on different populations and their tissue saturation levels of omega 3. In the Philippines, where they do not eat much omega 6 or pufa at all, their tissue omega 3 levels can reach high saturation from just ingesting 150mg of omega 3 per day. That is about what is found in an egg. However in America, where omega 6 is around 9% of total calories consumed, someone would need 2.5 grams of omega 3 per day to reach those same levels. Anyways, I thought that was an interesting factoid. If someone tells you that you need to raise your omega 3 levels, you can just say by restricting omega 6 your levels are just fine. :)

•The main supplements I take at the moment are: B1, B3, MB, Pregnenolone, Taurine, Gelatin, Haidut’s Energin, Aspirin, Zinc, Theanine, and Estroban. I have some thoughts on all these I would like to share:

•Taurine is interesting. I tried it a few months ago and took very small amounts of it. I felt manic and insane on it and quickly discontinued use. A couple weeks ago I decided to give it another try, and instead took 5g. I felt great, not crazy at all. I have since taken it daily at these levels with no problems at all, and the benefits of more testosterone, libido, better sleep, and relaxation. This supports an ongoing observation I have seen where substances sometimes act in their opposite way when taken at large or small doses (Homeopathic?).

•Niacinamide is like a gift from the Gods. There is probably not a day goes by that I do not take at least 500mg, and if things are rough, I feel no qualms about increasing it. I have only found once instance where using it has become problematic and that is where I take it in very large doses consistently. After about a week around 3g+, I start to feel sick and not good from it at all, almost edgy and not relaxed. However the great thing is that I can stop it for a day or so, and the next time I take it, I am right back to loving it and feeling great on it.

I think if you lower FFA consistently in someone like me who definitely does use them as fuel, you can get a compensatory response from your body increasing stress hormones to attempt to supply the needed fuel. So paradoxically, for someone like me, and probably others, niacinamide in certain instances can be stressful by removing needed fuel.

•Pregnenolone has changed a bit for me. For about a month I was taking it at 300mg per day. It was very relaxing, and this allowed me to take other stimulating things with it, like MB and caffeine. However, in the last couple weeks I have found that it has swapped around on me and become energy giving. I found I felt more relaxed and had better sleep when I moved it down to 200mg, then to 150mg, then to 100mg. Now I just take 50mg per day, sometimes 100mg. Let me tell you, when it was sedative, it was a magic pill. I could take truckloads of MB and caffeine with it, and not feel jittery or overstimulated at all. In the last few weeks this has subsided and I have lowered the amount of MB and caffeine I take. The last time I gave blood in July my total Cholesterol was around 240. I will give blood again here in November, and if it has dropped as much as I think it has, I wonder if the changing effects of pregnenolone are due to this lower amount of cholesterol available.

•I got some powdered horse aspirin, the super clean stuff, and have been toying around with it. Makes me feel awesome but it really hurts sleep, at small and large amounts. So I do not do it too often. But I like the stuff. No stomach problems at all mixed with milk.

•I think overall supplements are like this balancing act. Some things act as uppers, some as downers, and I have to balance those things out each day. They are awesome tools. My ability to fall asleep at night is my main metric. Niacinamide, like I mentioned above, is one of the best tools because it can really save my butt from overstimulation. Pregnenolone used to also fill that role, but has swaped roles. The funny thing is, if I do take large amounts of Niacinamide, I find that it also starts to reverse roles. It stops being relaxing, and feeling like a benzo, and instead stimulates. I think this is super interesting, I could write a whole paper on it probably.

To sum everything up, things are going well. Libido doing really well, skin very soft and smooth, stress seems low. I have a lot of days where I am very thankful for the things I have learned and the life that I have. When I sit out in the desert with the sun on my face and just feel…good…it is hard not to get philosophical and think about where I have come from, which was largely before I joined this forum. I still have things I would like to improve…it would be nice not to be a type 1 for instance. Reading other's stories and the struggles people go through definitely has a way of making me thankful for the gains I have made, even if they are not perfect, but I am thankful for where I am at