Suspected Gut Issues

[Locutus]

Having loose stools with liqui-poop-afaction (to use the technical term)...
I feel endotoxin is flaring which inflames my skin which is bad-ish body acne wise...
Toxic bile dumps?
sleep suffers...
but idk

Any thoughts? Suggested adjustments?

My tendency is to remain steadfast and disciplined but this might be a form of covert learned helplessness...

Diet (the items are kinda evenly distributed throughout the day- ingest something every 2 hours)

1) 3 or 4 of these a day:
Coffee 8 oz
Fat free Milk 4 oz (organic whole foods brands, not raw)
2 tsp Great Lakes Quick Dissolve Collagen Peptides
2 tsp white sugar
1/2 tsp refined coconut oil

2) 3 a day
12 oz fat free milk
1 raw pastured egg
2 tsp Great Lakes Quick Dissolve Collagen Peptides
2 tsp white sugar
Salt

3) 3 a day
8 oz of juice (Lakewood organics brand)
pineapple
pineapple ginger
pomegranate (this one was maybe like prune juice level laxative effect)
orange

4) Once a day
Baby carrots (6 oz)
1 tsp olive oil
Balsamic vinegar

^^ do this to lose weight which works, will hit a new modest low and then cheat meal the next day then back on the diet
takes 4 or 5 days to hit that new low...
Doing this because low fat is the only thing that works for me to lose weight
For cheat day I do try to stick to Peat foods but will be lenient and eat whatever I want
Last time it was breaded chicken sandwiches on bagels and butter Croisants with Nutella.
Also, Mexican cokes.

 

[Vileplume]

I think the most likely cause is that something(s) in your diet is irritating your gut.

Personally, 95%+ of foods and pretty much all supplements irritate my gut. There might be an underlying bacterial issue making it so hard for me (and maybe you) to digest foods that other people do fine with, but I've found food elimination very helpful in identifying triggers.

Here are the foods you listed that I would suspect for irritating my gut, ranked by likelihood:
1. Collagen peptides
2. Milk (I cannot digest A1 at all but do great with A2)
3. Breaded chicken sandwiches on bagels
4. Any fruit that isn't perfectly ripe
5. Bottled juice
6. Pomegranate
7. Pineapple
8. White sugar

I would try eliminating one or two foods at a time, waiting 5 days to see if your pooping changes. It probably will.

To notice a correlation, I log everything in a digital notetaking app: temperature, all the foods I eat, and any symptoms I notice.

Best of luck.

 

[Matestube]

Is this diet something you put in place in the hope of remedying your lose stools, or have you been on this diet for a while ?

 

[Locutus]

Is this diet something you put in place in the hope of remedying your lose stools, or have you been on this diet for a while ?

it's to lose weight primarily
I've been doing it for a month or so
it reliably works for that so far
highs 188 -> 185.2
lows 184.4 -> 181.2
5'11 1/2 , ~36 - 36.5 inch waist
I hope it will get better and my bowels will normalize, and skin/sleep improves

 

[Locutus]

I think the most likely cause is that something(s) in your diet is irritating your gut.

Personally, 95%+ of foods and pretty much all supplements irritate my gut. There might be an underlying bacterial issue making it so hard for me (and maybe you) to digest foods that other people do fine with, but I've found food elimination very helpful in identifying triggers.

Here are the foods you listed that I would suspect for irritating my gut, ranked by likelihood:
1. Collagen peptides
2. Milk (I cannot digest A1 at all but do great with A2)
3. Breaded chicken sandwiches on bagels
4. Any fruit that isn't perfectly ripe
5. Bottled juice
6. Pomegranate
7. Pineapple
8. White sugar

I would try eliminating one or two foods at a time, waiting 5 days to see if your pooping changes. It probably will.

To notice a correlation, I log everything in a digital notetaking app: temperature, all the foods I eat, and any symptoms I notice.

Best of luck.

Collagen peptides #1 aye
I used them to get calories and protein ... maybe I can swap those out for some lean meat or experiment with lower protein and make up the calories another way...
food for thought, literally!

 

[Vileplume]

Collagen peptides #1 aye
I used them to get calories and protein ... maybe I can swap those out for some lean meat or experiment with lower protein and make up the calories another way...
food for thought, literally!

Yeah man, any extracted and isolated powder (whey, powdered goat's milk, gelatin, collagen, etc) is sure to mess me up.

I think weird things enter the mix as byproducts of the drying and extraction process. And things get oxidized... it just doesn't end well for me

 

[mostlylurking]

) 3 or 4 of these a day:
Coffee 8 oz

I think there's not much (any?) thiamine in this diet. Coffee blocks thiamine function. I had to stop it (and tea) altogether.

8 oz of juice (Lakewood organics brand)
pineapple
pineapple ginger
pomegranate (this one was maybe like prune juice level laxative effect)
orange

Everything in this list is suspect. The 8 oz of juice is high sugar, the pineapple is high serotonin, the pineapple (again) is high serotonin, the pomegranate (possible high sugar); is this juice again or whole pomegranate you're eating? The whole orange, if ripe, sweet, and juicy would be pretty OK I think. If you are borderline thiamine deficient, extra sugar will use up what little you have and worsen the deficiency.

Baby carrots (6 oz)
1 tsp olive oil
Balsamic vinegar

Did you know that "baby" carrots are just big carrots, processed to look like baby carrots? A better choice would be organic carrots. That said, if my gut is out of whack, carrots will make it worse. Also, vinegar can be really hard on some people's intestines. Ray Peat advised me to eat very well cooked mushrooms daily, and suggested thiamine and magnesium to heal the gut.

it's to lose weight primarily

When I got my thiamine function blocked by taking Bactrim antibiotic, I was living on 1% milk, gelatin, and oranges. I managed to pack on 25 pounds in 30 days. If your thiamine function is in the ditch or if you are thiamine deficient, your body will take everything you eat and pack it on as fat because without thiamine, you cannot metabolize glucose and you cannot metabolize fats so your body packs the nutrients as fat for later use.

 

[aniciete]

You drink all of your calories? No solid food?

 

[DrJ]

Having loose stools with liqui-poop-afaction (to use the technical term)...
I feel endotoxin is flaring which inflames my skin which is bad-ish body acne wise...
Toxic bile dumps?
sleep suffers...
but idk

Any thoughts? Suggested adjustments?

My tendency is to remain steadfast and disciplined but this might be a form of covert learned helplessness...

Diet (the items are kinda evenly distributed throughout the day- ingest something every 2 hours)

1) 3 or 4 of these a day:
Coffee 8 oz
Fat free Milk 4 oz (organic whole foods brands, not raw)
2 tsp Great Lakes Quick Dissolve Collagen Peptides
2 tsp white sugar
1/2 tsp refined coconut oil

2) 3 a day
12 oz fat free milk
1 raw pastured egg
2 tsp Great Lakes Quick Dissolve Collagen Peptides
2 tsp white sugar
Salt

3) 3 a day
8 oz of juice (Lakewood organics brand)
pineapple
pineapple ginger
pomegranate (this one was maybe like prune juice level laxative effect)
orange

4) Once a day
Baby carrots (6 oz)
1 tsp olive oil
Balsamic vinegar

^^ do this to lose weight which works, will hit a new modest low and then cheat meal the next day then back on the diet
takes 4 or 5 days to hit that new low...
Doing this because low fat is the only thing that works for me to lose weight
For cheat day I do try to stick to Peat foods but will be lenient and eat whatever I want
Last time it was breaded chicken sandwiches on bagels and butter Croisants with Nutella.
Also, Mexican cokes.

I feel like you need more solid foods in there. Or maybe if you spread out carrots over the day more? If you are adamant about staying low-fat, I found a site recently while researching low-fat diets a la Stryker when he used to post that is supposed to help with digestion stuff:

Leaky Gut Care

Easy protocol to fix leaky gut and improve digestion # This site describes the protocol I developed and followed to fix my gut issues. Note that I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice. I am sharing the protocol I used which worked for me. It is inexpensive and easy to...

www.leakygut.care

It's fairly peat-y if you're okay to eat potatoes.

Another thought is that maybe adding some cheese in there will help slow things down... like the low-fat mozarella sticks? You can probably still meet your fat targets with those. But yeah, also been trying really low-fat lately and love it so I understand your restrictions.

 

[Locutus]

I think there's not much (any?) thiamine in this diet. Coffee blocks thiamine function. I had to stop it (and tea) altogether.

...

I forgot to mention that I eat 1 pound of shrimp once a week.
Also, I supplement thiamine hcl via Energin (50mg) and bulk powder (~ 4 or 500 mg , going higher than this seems to disrupt sleep)

25 pounds in 30 days
Lordy, did you have your turn with: "help me!!!!!!!!! I'm getting fat. WTF!!!!" (rite of passage)

You drink all of your calories? No solid food?

Don't forget I have the cheat meal(s), say, every 5 days.
Where I eat a lot of calories, solid food... much relaxed.
I can do this as a reward for "making weight" and knowing that I have a method to go back to that actually works and is knda sustainable. (but liquipoop not so much)

Yeah man, any extracted and isolated powder (whey, powdered goat's milk, gelatin, collagen, etc) is sure to mess me up.

I think weird things enter the mix as byproducts of the drying and extraction process. And things get oxidized... it just doesn't end well for me

combat learned helplessness
Think: Do you think you feel good and this is what it looks like to be healthy?
ehmmm no
Perceive:
Gelatin powder... I switched to the quick dissolve variety from another brand because I thought the other one didn't dissolve properly, and it was "annoying".
Previously I would use less and less...
I always suspected I was out of wack glutamate wise cause I think too much and too deeply and once I start it's hard to relax.
Traditionally high academic performer but obsessive quality to it that is out of balance and spoils the pleasurable component...
Math and philosophy especially trigger this.
When I heard ray speak, I immediately apprehended his intellect, and I got the impression that it's something of a challenge for him to synthesize the multi-disciplined wealth of info into concise packets that people can understand...
ACT:
Cut out the gelatin powder and see what happens.
Consider gelatinous meat once a week instead.
Think about how to utilize all the fat and gelatin into a soup....

 

[Vileplume]

combat learned helplessness
Think: Do you think you feel good and this is what it looks like to be healthy?
ehmmm no
Perceive:
Gelatin powder... I switched to the quick dissolve variety from another brand because I thought the other one didn't dissolve properly, and it was "annoying".
Previously I would use less and less...
I always suspected I was out of wack glutamate wise cause I think too much and too deeply and once I start it's hard to relax.
Traditionally high academic performer but obsessive quality to it that is out of balance and spoils the pleasurable component...
Math and philosophy especially trigger this.
When I heard ray speak, I immediately apprehended his intellect, and I got the impression that it's something of a challenge for him to synthesize the multi-disciplined wealth of info into concise packets that people can understand...
ACT:
Cut out the gelatin powder and see what happens.
Consider gelatinous meat once a week instead.
Think about how to utilize all the fat and gelatin into a soup....

Keep going, best of luck.

I've read about many people on this forum having success with gelatinous meaty stews and cuts (oxtail, shan, bones) instead of powdered gelatin.

 

[mostlylurking]

Also, I supplement thiamine hcl via Energin (50mg) and bulk powder (~ 4 or 500 mg , going higher than this seems to disrupt sleep)

Dr. Costantini warned not to take thiamine after 3:00pm because it will disrupt your sleep. So maybe the timing was disruptive? Different people have different requirements for thiamine. Maybe you're good on what you're taking. It's just that your symptoms point to the possibility that you could benefit by fine tuning the amount you take.

Thiamine Deficiency - A Potential Cause of SIBO and other Gut Dysfunction?

Thiamine deficiency - A consequence or cause of SIBO? In the previous article, I explained how SIBO and gut dysbiosis could increase the risk of thiamine deficiency. Thiamine's uptake from the gut may be disrupted in cases of malabsorption, which is a common feature of SIBO. The composition of...

www.eonutrition.co.uk

25 pounds in 30 days
Lordy, did you have your turn with: "help me!!!!!!!!! I'm getting fat. WTF!!!!" (rite of passage)

Well, when it happened I had worse health issues to think about than just the added 25 pounds. The blocked thiamine function damned near killed me. I worked on resolving my thiamine functional blockage for months. Then about a year later, I added 90mg of niacinamide 4Xday and the 25 pounds fell off of me pretty quick without making any other changes.

 

[Locutus]

It's the milk!!!!!!
I think I can tolerate only so much and once I pass a certain point, in the late evening, dinner time, it's over
Now carrots, which I have been doing for long time... they just feel gross and I'm sick of them and can I even discern any benefit? no not really...
mushrooms and bamboo shoots, yuck
that being said, I tolerate sour dough bread well and I think its fiber benefits me... slow things down and soak up God knows what @Vinero

New experiment is to go 0 fat first half of day keeping the same diet plan minus gelatin powder (still don't think my tummy likes it) and minus coconut oil and just stick with orange juice
Then swap in sourdough bread with grass fed roast beef for modest fat (< 20g total) and decent protein for dinner and before bed meal (smaller-ish meals ever 2 hours... )
I think starch with lower fat and protein is ok so long as I do not mix in other carb type. @Rinse & rePeat
I might try meat and a coke combo as well.
Was thinking to try a liquid bone broth ( lead concerns? ) or supplement just glycine with the meat... but not yet...

so frustrating...
affirmation:
just relax and run your experiments giving them 1 or 2 weeks tops to gather data and then make an adjustment
consult your intuition and just keep trying stuff
never give up!
if you feel good and you stumble onto something then you will know it!

@mostlylurking
I am so grateful to be in the company of such quality people here on this forum who truly empathize with one another's struggles and sufferings.
Bless you King.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It's the milk!!!!!!
I think I can tolerate only so much and once I pass a certain point, in the late evening, dinner time, it's over
Now carrots, which I have been doing for long time... they just feel gross and I'm sick of them and can I even discern any benefit? no not really...
mushrooms and bamboo shoots, yuck
that being said, I tolerate sour dough bread well and I think its fiber benefits me... slow things down and soak up God knows what @Vinero

New experiment is to go 0 fat first half of day keeping the same diet plan minus gelatin powder (still don't think my tummy likes it) and minus coconut oil and just stick with orange juice
Then swap in sourdough bread with grass fed roast beef for modest fat (< 20g total) and decent protein for dinner and before bed meal (smaller-ish meals ever 2 hours... )
I think starch with lower fat and protein is ok so long as I do not mix in other carb type. @Rinse & rePeat
I might try meat and a coke combo as well.
Was thinking to try a liquid bone broth ( lead concerns? ) or supplement just glycine with the meat... but not yet...

so frustrating...
affirmation:
just relax and run your experiments giving them 1 or 2 weeks tops to gather data and then make an adjustment
consult your intuition and just keep trying stuff
never give up!
if you feel good and you stumble onto something then you will know it!

@mostlylurking
I am so grateful to be in the company of such quality people here on this forum who truly empathize with one another's struggles and sufferings.
Bless you King.

I am seeing a lot of liquids and no solids in your diet, and the pineapple juice alone is a digestive. Carrots and coconut oil can make things runny too, in some people. I think a steak and a coke is a good idea! If your sleep is suffering don’t be eating that steak at night. Heavy protein meals we’ll keep your liver busy for about 6 hours. You need to pacify your liver at night for good sleep.

 

[AlaskaJono]

I love coffee, and for sure 3 or 4X daily is a lot of coffee for someone who has gut issues. Try half of that. And don't have any after say 3 or 4 pm. And I agree with a lot of the above advices, eat more solids. We do make bone broth soup (cooked 3.5 hours) and eat that with buckwheat noodles and some green onions or cilantro garnish. With Japanese miso. Also you can add some already cooked rice to it. Sometimes if it is fatty it will make loose stools. Sweet potatoes, rutabagas or swedes, potatoes oven cooked. MMmmm. Try eating more solid meals with the fruit and liquid stuff you listed as additional?! I had some issues recently from my usual normal good digestion, and had a beer with lunch yesterday. A solid experience today, so it helped. Also it is a great German Beer, Weihanstephaner, seit 1040. Brewed Since 1040 in Bavaria. (no affiliation).
Good luck and mix it up, stick to a plan is good, but one must be flexible enough to add/subtract new items in our daily intake. Have fun and enjoy it too. Cheers.