Sugar Vs. Honey

[DaveFoster]

On the note with OJ; OJ is remarkably nutritious for a fruit, so much so that 1175 calories of OJ w/ 1 cup of refined, nutrient-deplete sugar (1950 total calories for both) is just as nutritious as 1950 calories of dates! Drinking OJ or eating oranges as your main source of carbohydrate will allow you to eat plenty of refined sugar without sacrificing nutrients in the same way as eating a diet based on say, dates and white sugar.

Check it out:

Orange juice, chilled, from concentrate:

Dates, whole fruit:

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

Woooow thanks @DaveFoster

 

[Jakester]

I agree with Keith's posts in this thread, and DaveFoster's, and reject the "stay away from white sugar" order/directive/command. Plain white sugar has been excellent for me. I consume it with goat milk and some salt. I also take a fair number of high quality supplements including magnesium lotion (which I slather on twice a day; I make it myself from magnesium chloride, distilled water, and guar gum), manganese, zinc, etc. (I regard supplements as exceptionally valuable.) I eat lamb often (combined with glycine powder). I eat blue corn chips that are made with coconut oil (for selenium and fiber; Dr. Lawrence Wilson convinced me about the value of these). I use digestive enzymes and a good soil-based probiotic. I'm not a strict Peatarian but I find his core ideas to be sound. This combination has turned my life around after a nasty bout of c. diff. Having said all this, I want to also say, the amount of conflicting advice in nutrition is basically maddening - even within the Peatarian world, even within this thread. If you're reading this thread and feeling totally confused, know that you're not alone in your confusion. Your confusion can be worked through. The best I can say is, try different things, be patient, keep reading, keep assessing, eschew commands. Your body wants to heal. You can do it.

 

[X3CyO]

Agreed. So long as minerals and vitamins are balanced, then eating white sugar won't cause any problems.

 

[Xisca]

I eat sugar mainly through marmelade, as there is the fruit!
I am hesitant on sugar with starch... almost sure this is a bad mix.
Sugar with milk is not for all, and I prefer very fresh cheese, made with natural rennet from the animal: the job is done, better digestion!
Very interesting to note about maple sirup and good digestion, thanks!

I do marmelade with high pectine fruits, as they are not well digestied raw: apples, pears, and orange pulp.
Remember this is you are to go on filtered orange juice as Peat says, and this was the trick for me and my body to tolerate orange!
As I would not lose the rest of the fruit, I just cook it with sugar, and then eat it, or keep it in jars, up to choice and amount you make.

About honey: I can also note some bubbles sometimes, so better to keep it low when it is the case. You have to try, and also try different honeys as said.

About sugars in general: I am almost sure that the good tip is to not eat a lot at once, and eat more often. Or else you have sugar peaks, very bad.... Who said we have to not eat between meals, that is stupid if you eat more meals that's fine. When you are hungry, eat! If you are very hungry, then you will eat too much at once, bad.

I checked with a friend, and she has problems with sugar peaks only if she does not eat veggies with rice for example. Also, same with sugar, fruits are good because of the fiber and global content that slows absorbtion, and allows you to eat more at once. Fats are also good with sugars, like butter with potatoes, for the same reason, slow absorbtion. Of course saturated fats basis, butter or coconut.

Any sugar with no fiber or no fat seem a problemm for me...

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

I eat sugar mainly through marmelade, as there is the fruit!
I am hesitant on sugar with starch... almost sure this is a bad mix.
Sugar with milk is not for all, and I prefer very fresh cheese, made with natural rennet from the animal: the job is done, better digestion!
Very interesting to note about maple sirup and good digestion, thanks!

I do marmelade with high pectine fruits, as they are not well digestied raw: apples, pears, and orange pulp.
Remember this is you are to go on filtered orange juice as Peat says, and this was the trick for me and my body to tolerate orange!
As I would not lose the rest of the fruit, I just cook it with sugar, and then eat it, or keep it in jars, up to choice and amount you make.

About honey: I can also note some bubbles sometimes, so better to keep it low when it is the case. You have to try, and also try different honeys as said.

About sugars in general: I am almost sure that the good tip is to not eat a lot at once, and eat more often. Or else you have sugar peaks, very bad.... Who said we have to not eat between meals, that is stupid if you eat more meals that's fine. When you are hungry, eat! If you are very hungry, then you will eat too much at once, bad.

I checked with a friend, and she has problems with sugar peaks only if she does not eat veggies with rice for example. Also, same with sugar, fruits are good because of the fiber and global content that slows absorbtion, and allows you to eat more at once. Fats are also good with sugars, like butter with potatoes, for the same reason, slow absorbtion. Of course saturated fats basis, butter or coconut.

Any sugar with no fiber or no fat seem a problemm for me...

@Xisca

Thts really good

How do you cook apples with sugar

Would you please tell me. I would like to try it tonight

Thanks in advance

 

[Xisca]

Well, my method to eat apples is to cook them without or with sugar in very Little water, just enough for not burning them. As they are organic, I just cook them cut into 4 pieces. I remove only the seed, not the core. It saves time and less food goes to the compost!
For eating, I just eat all and suck the skin and cores and spit what is too fibrous.
If you add sugar, you can put more water and still have a sweet taste.
Very prehistoric way of eating with fingers....
Of course you may prefer to peeel etc and cook the rest afterward, especially if non organic fruits!

I do the same with pears and guavas, that are all high in pectine.
Pears are very sweet, you can put more water and drink it, it has a very good taste!
For guavas, I remove the inside with the seeds and cook the outside. The inside, I put in a jar with some wáter to cover, and shake it. I filter and drink the next day. This process allows seed to separate. If you leave in at room temp, it starts to make a very fine chicha (nearly beer!). I guess that too much is too much fermentation and not ok for everybody....

I enjoy these compotas with protein meals, they are good with meat etc.

I use what is left from home made orange juice with more sugar, and follow and regular marmelade recepe. You can also make marmelade with any other mentionned fruit above. Just fruit cooking is for eating the same or following days, marmelade when you have a lot of fruits to save!

For oranges, I prefer to remove the White part but like to add the orange part of the peel, it taste good. The White is bitter.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

@Xisca

Thank uu ... it seems good

 

[Xisca]

According to my tries, now I think honey might be better. I tried sugar twice before bed and slept bad thoe last 2 nights, and hypoglycemia this morning after also eating with sugar.

I remember a Young girl who was alergic to sucrose, and she could eat starch and she could eat food with powdered fructose, so there is for sure a difference. Sucrose is more than glucose + fructose!

And separated fructose is not the same either. She could eat fruits, but when her parents gave her fructose, she was ok BUT started toothe decay, which stopped by stopping fructose. When they told me this, I remembered that I had a big time with tooth decay as well! And I was not prone to them as a teen, not at all, had only a Little one when I was 18, the 1st one... And all the time in my 20s.

 

[Xisca]

What I had before going to bed those last 2 nights and this morning was stewed fruits with sugar and fresh goat cheese.
I got better this morning after a coffee with honey. Sure I cannot tell how it would have been with sugar in my coffee!

Maybe the problem is how much at one time, to avoid hyper-glycemia?

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

What I had before going to bed those last 2 nights and this morning was stewed fruits with sugar and fresh goat cheese.
I got better this morning after a coffee with honey. Sure I cannot tell how it would have been with sugar in my coffee!

Maybe the problem is how much at one time, to avoid hyper-glycemia?

Fruit sugar @Xisca

Is 2 type of sugar and their enzymes and so on

Your right

Sugar white sugar is good for me before bed

I believe it depends
Sugar is good if you completed most of ur macros which mostly they're in milk and orange juice

So If you drink 2 liter of orange juice and 3 liter of milk

Then u can eat sugar and feel very good with it I believe

 

[schultz]

Echoing what others have said, in my opinion plain white sugar is fine if the micro nutrients are kept up.

There is this public stigma towards white sugar which I don't totally understand. People who do the bulletproof coffee thing add 1-2 TBSP of MCT oil + 1-2 TBSP of butter. Butter has a few nutrients, but MCT oil is completely devoid of micro nutrients, like white sugar, but people don't think of it as white sugar. The difference is white sugar is healthier than MCT oil, yet you don't hear people calling a cup of coffee with a 1/4 cup of sugar in it bulletproof (I may start calling it that lol...)

A cup of whole milk has about 50 calories more than a cup of 1% milk. They both have the same micro nutrients. If you add a tablespoon of sugar to the 1% milk (50 calories), is this considered healthier or less healthy than the whole milk? I would argue healthier.

One reason Ray likes getting sugar from fruit is that the fruit comes with micro nutrients. He brings up potassium a lot in regards to this because he says it can have an insulin like action and help handle the sugar. Coffee has a decent amount of potassium and by itself is 0 calories, so combining sugar and coffee is like making a fruit of sorts.

As far as honey goes, I don't like the taste in coffee but I will put it on meat or something. Maple syrup is awesome in milk and honey is pretty good but doesn't mix well. My daughter likes honey and butter on her liver.

:A gram of coffee beans has about 12mg of potassium
:A strong cup of coffee with 30g of beans has around 360mg potassium, similar to a small to medium banana

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

Echoing what others have said, in my opinion plain white sugar is fine if the micro nutrients are kept up.

There is this public stigma towards white sugar which I don't totally understand. People who do the bulletproof coffee thing add 1-2 TBSP of MCT oil + 1-2 TBSP of butter. Butter has a few nutrients, but MCT oil is completely devoid of micro nutrients, like white sugar, but people don't think of it as white sugar. The difference is white sugar is healthier than MCT oil, yet you don't hear people calling a cup of coffee with a 1/4 cup of sugar in it bulletproof (I may start calling it that lol...)

A cup of whole milk has about 50 calories more than a cup of 1% milk. They both have the same micro nutrients. If you add a tablespoon of sugar to the 1% milk (50 calories), is this considered healthier and less healthy than the whole milk? I would argue healthier.

One reason Ray likes getting sugar from fruit is that the fruit comes with micro nutrients. He brings up potassium a lot in regards to this because he says it can have an insulin like action and help handle the sugar. Coffee has a decent amount of potassium and by itself is 0 calories, so combining sugar and coffee is like making a fruit of sorts.

As far as honey goes, I don't like the taste in coffee but I will put it on meat or something. Maple syrup is awesome in milk and honey is pretty good but doesn't mix well. My daughter likes honey and butter on her liver.

:A gram of coffee beans has about 12mg of potassium
:A strong cup of coffee with 30g of beans has around 360mg potassium, similar to a small to medium banana

Amazing @schultz

 

[WestCoaster]

Sugar is sugar no matter what form it comes in, table sugar, cane sugar, processed sugar, it all does the same thing, but there are slight differences. Here is a link showing some of them: The Natural Sweetener Worse Than High Fructose Corn Syrup (& The Truth Behind Eating "Natural" Sugar)

Honey is 40% fructose, 30% glucose, 20% water, and the rest is made up of trace minerals. Table sugar or cane sugar is 50% fructose, 50% glucose. Agave syrup is 70% fructose, so for those of you who highly believe fructose is good for you or therapeutic, Agave syrup should be your go-to sweetner.

What isn't listed there is Blackstrap Molasses. This stuff is jammed full of nutrients, and realistically in my opinion, if someone wants sugar, this should be the go-to stuff. Loaded with potassium, magnesium, manganese, Calcium, B6, etc.. Granted to ingest this stuff straight IMO is a bit difficult as it's very potent.

 

[EIRE24]

I agree with Keith's posts in this thread, and DaveFoster's, and reject the "stay away from white sugar" order/directive/command. Plain white sugar has been excellent for me. I consume it with goat milk and some salt. I also take a fair number of high quality supplements including magnesium lotion (which I slather on twice a day; I make it myself from magnesium chloride, distilled water, and guar gum), manganese, zinc, etc. (I regard supplements as exceptionally valuable.) I eat lamb often (combined with glycine powder). I eat blue corn chips that are made with coconut oil (for selenium and fiber; Dr. Lawrence Wilson convinced me about the value of these). I use digestive enzymes and a good soil-based probiotic. I'm not a strict Peatarian but I find his core ideas to be sound. This combination has turned my life around after a nasty bout of c. diff. Having said all this, I want to also say, the amount of conflicting advice in nutrition is basically maddening - even within the Peatarian world, even within this thread. If you're reading this thread and feeling totally confused, know that you're not alone in your confusion. Your confusion can be worked through. The best I can say is, try different things, be patient, keep reading, keep assessing, eschew commands. Your body wants to heal. You can do it.

What's the name of the probiotic you take and was this what helped you get rid of the c diff?

 

[Peater Piper]

I agree with Keith's posts in this thread, and DaveFoster's, and reject the "stay away from white sugar" order/directive/command. Plain white sugar has been excellent for me. I consume it with goat milk and some salt. I also take a fair number of high quality supplements including magnesium lotion (which I slather on twice a day; I make it myself from magnesium chloride, distilled water, and guar gum), manganese, zinc, etc. (I regard supplements as exceptionally valuable.) I eat lamb often (combined with glycine powder). I eat blue corn chips that are made with coconut oil (for selenium and fiber; Dr. Lawrence Wilson convinced me about the value of these). I use digestive enzymes and a good soil-based probiotic. I'm not a strict Peatarian but I find his core ideas to be sound. This combination has turned my life around after a nasty bout of c. diff. Having said all this, I want to also say, the amount of conflicting advice in nutrition is basically maddening - even within the Peatarian world, even within this thread. If you're reading this thread and feeling totally confused, know that you're not alone in your confusion. Your confusion can be worked through. The best I can say is, try different things, be patient, keep reading, keep assessing, eschew commands. Your body wants to heal. You can do it.

I don't think anyone here was rejecting refined sugar as a whole, just that there's frequently other options that provide both the sugar and the micronutrients required to metabolize it. You're sidestepping the lack of nutrients provided by refined sugar by supplementing, but is a supplement-free diet high in refined sugar sustainable or will it cause nutrient depletion in the long term? I don't know, and part of it will depend on the person's health to start with.

Echoing what others have said, in my opinion plain white sugar is fine if the micro nutrients are kept up.

There is this public stigma towards white sugar which I don't totally understand. People who do the bulletproof coffee thing add 1-2 TBSP of MCT oil + 1-2 TBSP of butter. Butter has a few nutrients, but MCT oil is completely devoid of micro nutrients, like white sugar, but people don't think of it as white sugar. The difference is white sugar is healthier than MCT oil, yet you don't hear people calling a cup of coffee with a 1/4 cup of sugar in it bulletproof (I may start calling it that lol...)

A cup of whole milk has about 50 calories more than a cup of 1% milk. They both have the same micro nutrients. If you add a tablespoon of sugar to the 1% milk (50 calories), is this considered healthier or less healthy than the whole milk? I would argue healthier.

One reason Ray likes getting sugar from fruit is that the fruit comes with micro nutrients. He brings up potassium a lot in regards to this because he says it can have an insulin like action and help handle the sugar. Coffee has a decent amount of potassium and by itself is 0 calories, so combining sugar and coffee is like making a fruit of sorts.

As far as honey goes, I don't like the taste in coffee but I will put it on meat or something. Maple syrup is awesome in milk and honey is pretty good but doesn't mix well. My daughter likes honey and butter on her liver.

:A gram of coffee beans has about 12mg of potassium
:A strong cup of coffee with 30g of beans has around 360mg potassium, similar to a small to medium banana

I believe carbohydrates, in general, require a greater amount of micronutrients than fat, with a few exceptions (off the top of my head, high fat diets may require more choline and biotin). Also, insulin sensitivity will play a role, as hyperglycemia seems to cause increased urinary excretion of minerals.

 

[schultz]

I believe carbohydrates, in general, require a greater amount of micronutrients than fat, with a few exceptions (off the top of my head, high fat diets may require more choline and biotin). Also, insulin sensitivity will play a role, as hyperglycemia seems to cause increased urinary excretion of minerals.

You're probably right in that a high sugar low fat diet will require more nutrients. It would be difficult to know how much a person would need and the safe thing would be to just eat nutrient dense food. I try to offset my sugar intake by eating liver a couple times a week and by eating other nutrient dense foods on a daily basis like milk, coconut water, eggs, fruits.

Speaking of coconut water, I was listening to the "new" old kmud's that are on the WBM website and in one of them Ray mentioned coconut water as being "surprisingly low in allergenicity". I uploaded the clip.

 

[Blossom]

You're probably right in that a high sugar low fat diet will require more nutrients. It would be difficult to know how much a person would need and the safe thing would be to just eat nutrient dense food. I try to offset my sugar intake by eating liver a couple times a week and by eating other nutrient dense foods on a daily basis like milk, coconut water, eggs, fruits.

Speaking of coconut water, I was listening to the "new" old kmud's that are on the WBM website and in one of them Ray mentioned coconut water as being "surprisingly low in allergenicity". I uploaded the clip.

Thanks @schultz, this might be a good one for @raypeatclips to include on YouTube.

 

[Xisca]

Honey contains glucose + fructose
Sugar is not so, it is sucrose!
Only after some job by the body, it becomes glucose + fructose

So, people who have some problems in doing the job, will have more problems with sugar than with honey.

 

[Blossom]

IIRC Sugar is equal parts glucose and fructose but honey has slightly more fructose than glucose.