Honey Headache

squanch

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I did a little experiment a few months ago where I ate large amounts of honey (250g) on top of my already high fruit intake.

Never had any problems with fruit or honey before, but after a few weeks of consuming those large amounts of honey I started getting pretty bad headaches and generally feeling very tired and spaced out.
Stopped the honey and most other sugar sources and it went away.

Now my problems is, while I could eat around 100g of honey before my experiment without any problems, I can't even handle 1 tbsp now without getting a headache. The same thing happens when I eat a bowl of apple sauce.
Small amounts of other fruits seem to be ok. Starch does not give me any problems.
EDIT: all refined/low nutrient carbs seem to be problematic

I have switched most of the sugar with starch (potatoes) and am doing ok, but would like to eat a higher fruit/honey diet in the future again (want to gain some weight, a lot easier to do with simple sugars)

Does anyone know what happened here?
To much fructose to handle for me at the moment? High triglycerides? Did I **** up my liver?

I will get a blood test done next week, does anyone have any suggestions until then?

I don't take thyroid at the moment, but still have a bottle of ndt here. Might try that after the blood test and see if it helps.
 

tara

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I don't know what's going on, but if you want wild speculation, here're a couple of ideas.

Is it just the honey and apple sauce that gets you, or do other sugars give you similar effects at the moment - eg sucrose, fruit, etc?
If it's just the honey and the applesauce, consider the possibility of an allergy to something the bees were supping on? Have you tried different sources of honey? Different apple sauce?

Have you assessed overall nutrition - could the high honey have exceeded the potassium, magnesium etc available to help metabolise it?

If I overdo the sugar - ie keep eating too much more sugar or higher density sugar when my body doesn't really feel like it, I sometimes get a headache and sick feeling. I assume this means I've filled my glycogen as far as I currently can, and then pushed my blood sugar too high for what it can currently deal with. Sometimes drinking more water, maybe with Mg bicarb in it, or green tea or similar in this situation helps me deal with it. If this is the issue, I guess whatever helps metabolise the sugar might help, like black unsweetened coffee if that agrees with you, or B-vits, or salt, etc.
 
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squanch

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Thanks for your input

Honey and apple sauce are definitely worst. Other fruits are ok in small amounts but will bring on the same reaction if I eat a lot.

I did try different kinds of honey and have the exact same reaction to all of them.

Since I can still eat as much starch as I want without any problems whatsoever I don't think it's a blood sugar / glycogen issue.
I assumed it has something to do with impaired fructose metabolism.

could the high honey have exceeded the potassium, magnesium etc available to help metabolise it?
Could be. It would explain why honey or cooked apple sauce (relatively low in nutrients) is worse than whole fruit. I have been eating mainly starch for my carbs for a few weeks now though without any real improvement in sugar tolerance.
 

tara

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Do you eat the starch with lots of salt and the sugar without? That can throw me.
 

tara

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If the starch is working for you, I guess that might be OK.
I seem to feel better for just a little starch if I've been eating all sugar, but that's just me. I'm guessing my system wants a little more glucose than fructose at this stage.
 
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squanch

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Salt intake is very similar.

The thing that really bums me out is the fact that I could eat 3000kcal+ of nothing but sugar in my 80/10/10 days.
I was drinking 2 litre of soda per day pretty much all my youth.

Maybe I should go a few days/weeks with a really low fat intake and see how that changes things
 

tara

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Many honeys and some fruits including some varieties of apples and pears can have quite a bit more fructose than glucose eg 65:35. I've read, but don't know whether it is right, that a fructose molecule is best absorbed by some people if it is accompanied by a glucose molecule. If this is a relevant issue in this, then eating some starch - or some glucose heavy syrup - along with the honey etc might make a difference?

I don't suppose you have a blood glucose meter at hand? Me neither.
 
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squanch

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I usually have a glucose/fructose ratio in my meals that is in favor of glucose. Pretty much all my meals do have at least some starch in them because I feel better that way.

The higher fructose content of honey/apples is something that also popped into my mind. Especially the free fructose is a lot higher.
I did also increase my coconut oil intake a while back.
Is it possible that since mct and fructose both go directly to the liver this could overburden the liver at some point?
Or the mct and higher overall fat intake somehow impairs fructose metabolism?
 

tara

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Skally said:
I did also increase my coconut oil intake a while back.
Is it possible that since mct and fructose both go directly to the liver this could overburden the liver at some point?
Or the mct and higher overall fat intake somehow impairs fructose metabolism?
Maybe? If I've eaten too much sugar, adding more coconut oil tends to make me feel worse. I guess it makes the sugar last longer in the system, so maybe you get overloaded more quickly?
 

Noodlz

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This might not be relevant to your situation, but I wasn't really able to take honey a couple weeks ago. I could feel a slight closing up in my throat and sinuses whenever I ate it. I stopped honey intake for a few weeks and tried some two days ago. The reaction took much longer to begin (after about 6 tbs). I think it had to do with the fact that I've drastically increased my salt intake over the past couple weeks. I remember reading that salt can decrease allergic reactions and I think that's probably what happened to me. I'm not sure if you're experiencing an allergic reaction, but it might help if you increased your salt intake.
 
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squanch

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Thanks noodlz
I've had that annoying mucus in the back of my throat all winter. Some foods seem to make it worse.
I might try upping my salt intake a bit and see what happens
 
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squanch

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Small update

At first I thought fructose was the problem. It seems like all low nutrient carbs give me the same issues though. Tried some highly refined white bread. It's not as bad as it is with honey, it still does give me a headache.

I don't think it's a blood sugar issue, potatoes and other root vegetables are fine even in large amounts.

I assume I depleted some nutrients during my high honey experiment and am having a hard time processing low nutrient carb sources now?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated
 

jyb

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250g of honey on top of other fruits... Maybe you developed some allergy from something in the honey from such amounts? If it were me, such an amount would have ruined my health totally and I would not be surprised about headaches. But that's just me, I never heard of honey experiments.
 
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squanch

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No allergy to the honey I'm using. I am allergic to certain other types of honey and some fruits, but I've had that since I went on a ketogenic diet a few years ago.

Fortunately I've not completely ruined my health. I'm doing perfectly fine eating mainly root vegetables, high fat dairy, seafood and some fruits.
It's only when I start eating lower nutrient carbs (honey, apple sauce, refined flour, cane sugar..) or large amounts of fruits that i get these headaches.

I want to up my calories and gain some weight (this is the reason I started eating that much honey in the first place). I'm eating a higher fat diet with lots of coconut oil to do that at the moment but would like to replace some of the fat with honey/fruit in the future.
 

Sea

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250 grams is not that much honey. I consumed greater than that amount daily when I initially transitioned off of a low carbohydrate diet to a low fat diet as honey was one of the few carbohydrate sources I could tolerate well.

To me it sounds like you have some type of bacterial or other pathogenic overgrowth.

I recommend trying some antibiotics. Peat has mentioned penicillin and the tetracycline class of antibiotics as useful. I had good results using penicillin and minocyline which noticeably increased my metabolic rate and made my digestion much stronger. I will note that minocyline is a very strong antibiotic and you might want to try plain tetracyline first until you know how you respond as it has a shorter half life.
 

BibleBeliever

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I did a little experiment a few months ago where I ate large amounts of honey (250g) on top of my already high fruit intake.

Never had any problems with fruit or honey before, but after a few weeks of consuming those large amounts of honey I started getting pretty bad headaches and generally feeling very tired and spaced out.
Stopped the honey and most other sugar sources and it went away.

Now my problems is, while I could eat around 100g of honey before my experiment without any problems, I can't even handle 1 tbsp now without getting a headache. The same thing happens when I eat a bowl of apple sauce.
Small amounts of other fruits seem to be ok. Starch does not give me any problems.
EDIT: all refined/low nutrient carbs seem to be problematic

I have switched most of the sugar with starch (potatoes) and am doing ok, but would like to eat a higher fruit/honey diet in the future again (want to gain some weight, a lot easier to do with simple sugars)

Does anyone know what happened here?
To much fructose to handle for me at the moment? High triglycerides? Did I **** up my liver?

I will get a blood test done next week, does anyone have any suggestions until then?

I don't take thyroid at the moment, but still have a bottle of ndt here. Might try that after the blood test and see if it helps.


From Acute Thiamine (Vitamin B1) Deficiency


Causes of Thiamine Deficiency
The causes of thiamine deficiency may overlap and if several are present a severe deficiency may result


  • Excessive intake of carbohydrate-rich foods that are low in thiamine e.g. white rice, sugar, glucose including IV glucose or feeding given to patients in hospital


    Other sites include headaches and high histamines(allergic-like reactions) as a result of low vitamin b1. Most foods are low in it, paleo and peat. Grains tend to be high, marmite is the highest, brewers yeast is pretty high too.

    The site doesn't say how lots of sugar lowers vitamin b1, but it creates an interesting premise. Supplement vitamin b1 in the form of food, maybe marmite? Maybe daily brewers yeast hot water extract and see if symptoms improve?
 
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squanch

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From Acute Thiamine (Vitamin B1) Deficiency


Causes of Thiamine Deficiency
The causes of thiamine deficiency may overlap and if several are present a severe deficiency may result


  • Excessive intake of carbohydrate-rich foods that are low in thiamine e.g. white rice, sugar, glucose including IV glucose or feeding given to patients in hospital


    Other sites include headaches and high histamines(allergic-like reactions) as a result of low vitamin b1. Most foods are low in it, paleo and peat. Grains tend to be high, marmite is the highest, brewers yeast is pretty high too.

    The site doesn't say how lots of sugar lowers vitamin b1, but it creates an interesting premise. Supplement vitamin b1 in the form of food, maybe marmite? Maybe daily brewers yeast hot water extract and see if symptoms improve?
Thanks Jack.
The headaches have actually gotten a lot better over the last year, but I still have some problems when eating large amounts of fructose (100g+) in one sitting.
I've had some great success with B6 for skin problems, I'll give the supplemental B1 a try
 
D

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Thanks Jack.
The headaches have actually gotten a lot better over the last year, but I still have some problems when eating large amounts of fructose (100g+) in one sitting.
I've had some great success with B6 for skin problems, I'll give the supplemental B1 a try

I use to have the exact same thing. And had a little relapse today which made me search into it.

It was mainly when I was on paleo. If i had apple juice or honey I would get really weird spacy feeling and weakness in the limbs. Like yourself I thought it was a Fructose thing. However I believe it to be either an enzyme difency or like the other guy said B1 dificency. Becuase earlier I was really spaced out after milk and honey, and had my multivitamin and things cleared up in an hour.

However intestinal overgrowth is likly possible. Because I get vertigo when I eat coconut oil which kills things off. So mabey there feeding on the excess fructose.

Did u find anything that helped?
 

EIRE24

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Thanks Jack.
The headaches have actually gotten a lot better over the last year, but I still have some problems when eating large amounts of fructose (100g+) in one sitting.
I've had some great success with B6 for skin problems, I'll give the supplemental B1 a try
What skin problems did B6 clear up for you?
 
OP
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squanch

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What skin problems did B6 clear up for you?
acne / rosacea
I used it in combination with vit a, zinc and magnesium + topical niacinamide.

Did u find anything that helped?
I started weightlifting + eating more and have gained a lot of muscle mass over the last 2 years. This helped greatly with all kinds of problems I had.
Other than that I just avoid eating large amounts of fructose in one sitting (getting most of my carbs from potatoes) and don't eat fast digesting sugars like honey or fruit juices on an empty stomach, only together with a full meal.
Edit: Balancing the honey with bee pollen also helped a lot. Just a tsp for every tblsp of honey prevents headaches for me. Don't ask my why though, no idea how that works...
 
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