Severe SIBO/Endotoxemia - Please give advice

[user8374]

Hi, I am suffering from SIBO-D since I was 15 years old and now I'm 20. 2 years ago I developed allergies and I'm guessing it's related to endotoxemia caused by SIBO. When I eat fats my nose gets extremely stuffy, its like my nasal passages shrink and when I eat high sugar foods my nose gets really runny and sometimes I start sweating a lot. 5 months ago I started taking 250mg of UDCA every day as I read about bile acids role in SIBO and psoriasis which I also have. Alongside this I took 20 drops of oregano essential oil diluted in coconut oil with each meal ( I know its a high dose but its the minimum I could take that would give me adequate relief) which allowed me to eat most foods I previously couldn't with basically zero symptoms. After 2 weeks the UDCA slowly started improving my allergy symptoms and I was able to eat fats with again and had 90% improved symptoms. Then for some time I had the best weeks/months in years where I was getting restful sleep with no blocked nose and I was not bed ridden. I felt euphoric and I thought I was finally going to beat this illness. Then 1 month ago I started slowly developing muscle aching and tiredness. I did not realise at the time what was causing it, I tried changing some things in my diet but it did not help. Then one night I had extreme anxiety and discomfort in my heart and my whole body was cold and muscles aching so I stopped the UDCA and oregano oil and to see if I would improve and I slowly did. Also, this happened around the time that I noticed that I don't need oregano oil as UDCA alone was giving me complete relief from SIBO from taking only 125mg UDCA every few days, it took 4 months of taking it to get this relief. I was actually constipated and having only 1 bowel movement every few days which I did not mind at all compared to what I was experiencing previously. So after I took a break from udca for a few days I decided to restart it because my SIBO symptoms were returning and I was only taking 125mg every 2 days but every time I took it I would slowly develop muscle aching, cold feet, heart discomfort, extreme anxiety/suicidal thoughts until I took a longer break. I know it was dumb of me to continue taking it but I was basically dependant on it to eat and sleep which is why I tried so many times hoping that the side effects would not come. I also tried other choleretics like artichoke leaf and ox bile and they have the same benefits of making me SIBO free for a few days when I take one capsule but also the same side effects so I am not sure if I ****88 something up with my liver or what. I thought that maybe its die off symptoms but I'm not sure if it can last this long and cause symptoms this severe. Now I am back to square 1 and eat very little and can't sleep because of blocked nose which makes life so hard. Next I am thinking to try rifaximin and hope that it can put me into remission for a few months with SIBO and help with my allergy symptoms. This will be my first time taking antibiotics for SIBO. Also I am going to try quercetin for allergy/endotoxin issues to see if it helps. I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts you may have. Thanks for reading.

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi, I am suffering from SIBO-D since I was 15 years old and now I'm 20. 2 years ago I developed allergies and I'm guessing it's related to endotoxemia caused by SIBO. When I eat fats my nose gets extremely stuffy, its like my nasal passages shrink and when I eat high sugar foods my nose gets really runny and sometimes I start sweating a lot. 5 months ago I started taking 250mg of UDCA every day as I read about bile acids role in SIBO and psoriasis which I also have. Alongside this I took 20 drops of oregano essential oil diluted in coconut oil with each meal ( I know its a high dose but its the minimum I could take that would give me adequate relief) which allowed me to eat most foods I previously couldn't with basically zero symptoms. After 2 weeks the UDCA slowly started improving my allergy symptoms and I was able to eat fats with again and had 90% improved symptoms. Then for some time I had the best weeks/months in years where I was getting restful sleep with no blocked nose and I was not bed ridden. I felt euphoric and I thought I was finally going to beat this illness. Then 1 month ago I started slowly developing muscle aching and tiredness. I did not realise at the time what was causing it, I tried changing some things in my diet but it did not help. Then one night I had extreme anxiety and discomfort in my heart and my whole body was cold and muscles aching so I stopped the UDCA and oregano oil and to see if I would improve and I slowly did. Also, this happened around the time that I noticed that I don't need oregano oil as UDCA alone was giving me complete relief from SIBO from taking only 125mg UDCA every few days, it took 4 months of taking it to get this relief. I was actually constipated and having only 1 bowel movement every few days which I did not mind at all compared to what I was experiencing previously. So after I took a break from udca for a few days I decided to restart it because my SIBO symptoms were returning and I was only taking 125mg every 2 days but every time I took it I would slowly develop muscle aching, cold feet, heart discomfort, extreme anxiety/suicidal thoughts until I took a longer break. I know it was dumb of me to continue taking it but I was basically dependant on it to eat and sleep which is why I tried so many times hoping that the side effects would not come. I also tried other choleretics like artichoke leaf and ox bile and they have the same benefits of making me SIBO free for a few days when I take one capsule but also the same side effects so I am not sure if I ****88 something up with my liver or what. I thought that maybe its die off symptoms but I'm not sure if it can last this long and cause symptoms this severe. Now I am back to square 1 and eat very little and can't sleep because of blocked nose which makes life so hard. Next I am thinking to try rifaximin and hope that it can put me into remission for a few months with SIBO and help with my allergy symptoms. This will be my first time taking antibiotics for SIBO. Also I am going to try quercetin for allergy/endotoxin issues to see if it helps. I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts you may have. Thanks for reading.

Please read:

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Severe Gut Dysmotility, Dysautonomia, and Malnutrition - Hormones Matter

From as long as I can remember, I’ve experienced gut pain, fatigue, and hyper-sensitivity.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thiamine and the Microbiome - Hormones Matter

Health depends on the 70-100 trillion single-celled organisms that live in our intestines.

www.hormonesmatter.com

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[LucH]

Hi, make a search with Jacqueline Lagacé.

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi, make a search with Jacqueline Lagacé.

That search appears to be a dead end to her End of Pain book. Sorry not really interested in buying the book.

I spent many years in a lot of pain/inflammation plus SIBO, leaky gut, reactive to most foods, then rheumatoid arthritis. I live with mercury poisoning which exacerbates my problems. I'm recovered, thanks to Ray Peat's wisdom, a great endocrinologist who optimized my prescription desiccated thyroid medication (resolved the rheumatoid arthritis), and high dose thiamine hcl (thanks to Dr. Costantini) + magnesium glycinate + some other Peaty supplements.

 

[LucH]

I spent many years in a lot of pain/inflammation plus SIBO, leaky gut, reactive to most foods, then rheumatoid arthritis.

I understand this point of view. The "problem" is not to heal rheumatoid arthritis (as JL suffered from) but to extrapolate and understand why more than 10 % people suffer from auto-immune disease. I can't develop here. Not admitted.
And young children haven't had time enough to develop heavy metal poisoning when living in natural wealthy environment. However, some children inherit the gene weakness from their parents. Why? the ground (30%) + the way of life (70%).
A clue (part of the problem):
Cereals cause zonulin secretion. Zonulin increases intestinal permeability (leaky gut). Tight junctions are no longer operational (by people suffering from poor digestion).
PS: Thiamin can help a lot to optimize energy and to set things in the right order / to exchange information (brain) but it won't do much if you can tolerate some stuff.

 

[Alpha]

You'll get a lot of schools of thought on this topic. I think a course of antibiotics to start a clean slate then build back up a healthy gut microbiome with fiber rich whole foods and coconut oil.

 

[averymk]

Hi, I am suffering from SIBO-D since I was 15 years old and now I'm 20. 2 years ago I developed allergies and I'm guessing it's related to endotoxemia caused by SIBO. When I eat fats my nose gets extremely stuffy, its like my nasal passages shrink and when I eat high sugar foods my nose gets really runny and sometimes I start sweating a lot. 5 months ago I started taking 250mg of UDCA every day as I read about bile acids role in SIBO and psoriasis which I also have. Alongside this I took 20 drops of oregano essential oil diluted in coconut oil with each meal ( I know its a high dose but its the minimum I could take that would give me adequate relief) which allowed me to eat most foods I previously couldn't with basically zero symptoms. After 2 weeks the UDCA slowly started improving my allergy symptoms and I was able to eat fats with again and had 90% improved symptoms. Then for some time I had the best weeks/months in years where I was getting restful sleep with no blocked nose and I was not bed ridden. I felt euphoric and I thought I was finally going to beat this illness. Then 1 month ago I started slowly developing muscle aching and tiredness. I did not realise at the time what was causing it, I tried changing some things in my diet but it did not help. Then one night I had extreme anxiety and discomfort in my heart and my whole body was cold and muscles aching so I stopped the UDCA and oregano oil and to see if I would improve and I slowly did. Also, this happened around the time that I noticed that I don't need oregano oil as UDCA alone was giving me complete relief from SIBO from taking only 125mg UDCA every few days, it took 4 months of taking it to get this relief. I was actually constipated and having only 1 bowel movement every few days which I did not mind at all compared to what I was experiencing previously. So after I took a break from udca for a few days I decided to restart it because my SIBO symptoms were returning and I was only taking 125mg every 2 days but every time I took it I would slowly develop muscle aching, cold feet, heart discomfort, extreme anxiety/suicidal thoughts until I took a longer break. I know it was dumb of me to continue taking it but I was basically dependant on it to eat and sleep which is why I tried so many times hoping that the side effects would not come. I also tried other choleretics like artichoke leaf and ox bile and they have the same benefits of making me SIBO free for a few days when I take one capsule but also the same side effects so I am not sure if I ****88 something up with my liver or what. I thought that maybe its die off symptoms but I'm not sure if it can last this long and cause symptoms this severe. Now I am back to square 1 and eat very little and can't sleep because of blocked nose which makes life so hard. Next I am thinking to try rifaximin and hope that it can put me into remission for a few months with SIBO and help with my allergy symptoms. This will be my first time taking antibiotics for SIBO. Also I am going to try quercetin for allergy/endotoxin issues to see if it helps. I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts you may have. Thanks for reading.

Are you sure this isn’t candida with fungal infection in the nasal passages? I would get a SIBO breath test to rule that out, in which case it might be SIFO. You could knock the infection back with diflucan or possibly methylene blue while you try to get your immune system in balance. That goes back to the thyroid, but also consider you may not be making sufficient stomach acid to control pathogens & they thrive on undigested food. I would try mastic gum too for either fungus or SIBO while making sure the MMT is working properly with a course of thiamaxx. And trying to reduce stress.

 

[user8374]

Please read:

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Severe Gut Dysmotility, Dysautonomia, and Malnutrition - Hormones Matter

From as long as I can remember, I’ve experienced gut pain, fatigue, and hyper-sensitivity.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thiamine and the Microbiome - Hormones Matter

Health depends on the 70-100 trillion single-celled organisms that live in our intestines.

www.hormonesmatter.com

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Thanks I'll take a look. I do have really slow bowel movements when I am free of SIBO symptoms so I think it can definitely help.

Hi, make a search with Jacqueline Lagacé.

Ill look into her thanks.

Are you sure this isn’t candida with fungal infection in the nasal passages? I would get a SIBO breath test to rule that out, in which case it might be SIFO. You could knock the infection back with diflucan or possibly methylene blue while you try to get your immune system in balance. That goes back to the thyroid, but also consider you may not be making sufficient stomach acid to control pathogens & they thrive on undigested food. I would try mastic gum too for either fungus or SIBO while making sure the MMT is working properly with a course of thiamaxx. And trying to reduce stress.

It's definitely not a fungal infection in the nasal passage. The only thing that improve the allergies and diarrhea symptoms at the same time is UDCA or ox bile which I'm guessing is because bile breaks down endotoxin making them less toxic but I can't take that anymore for some reason.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks I'll take a look. I do have really slow bowel movements when I am free of SIBO symptoms so I think it can definitely help.

In addition to thiamine, consider magnesium. I use magnesium glycinate, 3/8 teaspoon, 2Xday (equals about 3100 mg), which has been very helpful for me. Taking thiamine improves the tolerance for magnesium.

Ray Peat told me that thiamine and magnesium are needed to heal the gut.

Here's a good article about magnesium:

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[InChristAlone]

Hi! Please don't take quercetin, it's just a bandaid like the the rest of them. Sounds like you have toxic bile. Have you looked into the toxic bile theory? I think Karen Hurd is likely the first to really offer a treatment. But it includes beans which are very difficult for those with SIBO so you have to go very slowly introducing them (I'm still working up the courage). How much fiber do you usually eat?

 

[user8374]

In addition to thiamine, consider magnesium. I use magnesium glycinate, 3/8 teaspoon, 2Xday (equals about 3100 mg), which has been very helpful for me. Taking thiamine improves the tolerance for magnesium.

Ray Peat told me that thiamine and magnesium are needed to heal the gut.

Here's a good article about magnesium:

Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

Magnesium deficiency and stress are both common conditions among the general population, which, over time, can increase the risk of health consequences. Numerous studies, both in pre-clinical and clinical settings, have investigated the interaction of ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for the info

 

[user8374]

I ate a lot of fibre while I was taking the things that reduced my sibo symptoms but it didn't help much with the allergies. The only thing that helped was udca/ox bile because it can break down endotoxin. I think I am going to find an antibiotic that works for my sibo and cycle on and off with a low dose which should help with the endotoxemia and my liver recovering and hopefully with some vitamins and a healthy diet I can permanently restore motility.


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CUICj1igest/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=a6a172b0-c26b-4afd-9a9f-d9e847f1e9ab&ig_mid=7D7519E2-6CDB-4270-A592-539A65F49F95

Healing the Gut to Treat Psoriasis?

“All disease starts in the gut.” This saying may sound like a new fad, but in fact, this is quoted from Hippocrates himself (470-36 BCE) who proposed this--- not ten years ago, a hundred years a...

nextstepsinderm.com

Similar thing here done by this doctor who treated psoriasis and sibo with antibiotics.

 

[InChristAlone]

Problem with taking ox bile is it's very alkaline to the stomach so it could exacerbate the digestion problem leading to undigested food which is what feeds the bacteria. They are there to clean it up. I never noticed anything from antibiotics on my gut microbiome (other than downsides). In fact I took them a lot as a kid when my IBS-C started.

 

[golder]

Problem with taking ox bile is it's very alkaline to the stomach so it could exacerbate the digestion problem leading to undigested food which is what feeds the bacteria. They are there to clean it up. I never noticed anything from antibiotics on my gut microbiome (other than downsides). In fact I took them a lot as a kid when my IBS-C started.

Good point, when do we think the best time to take ox bile would be? In the morning with zero food in your stomach? Or late at night when most of it has been digested?

 

[user8374]

I took bile acids with food for 4 months and didn't notice any discomfort. It's recommended to take UDCA, TUDCA or ox bile with food.

 

[Jennifer]

Hi, I am suffering from SIBO-D since I was 15 years old and now I'm 20. 2 years ago I developed allergies and I'm guessing it's related to endotoxemia caused by SIBO. When I eat fats my nose gets extremely stuffy, its like my nasal passages shrink and when I eat high sugar foods my nose gets really runny and sometimes I start sweating a lot. 5 months ago I started taking 250mg of UDCA every day as I read about bile acids role in SIBO and psoriasis which I also have. Alongside this I took 20 drops of oregano essential oil diluted in coconut oil with each meal ( I know its a high dose but its the minimum I could take that would give me adequate relief) which allowed me to eat most foods I previously couldn't with basically zero symptoms. After 2 weeks the UDCA slowly started improving my allergy symptoms and I was able to eat fats with again and had 90% improved symptoms. Then for some time I had the best weeks/months in years where I was getting restful sleep with no blocked nose and I was not bed ridden. I felt euphoric and I thought I was finally going to beat this illness. Then 1 month ago I started slowly developing muscle aching and tiredness. I did not realise at the time what was causing it, I tried changing some things in my diet but it did not help. Then one night I had extreme anxiety and discomfort in my heart and my whole body was cold and muscles aching so I stopped the UDCA and oregano oil and to see if I would improve and I slowly did. Also, this happened around the time that I noticed that I don't need oregano oil as UDCA alone was giving me complete relief from SIBO from taking only 125mg UDCA every few days, it took 4 months of taking it to get this relief. I was actually constipated and having only 1 bowel movement every few days which I did not mind at all compared to what I was experiencing previously. So after I took a break from udca for a few days I decided to restart it because my SIBO symptoms were returning and I was only taking 125mg every 2 days but every time I took it I would slowly develop muscle aching, cold feet, heart discomfort, extreme anxiety/suicidal thoughts until I took a longer break. I know it was dumb of me to continue taking it but I was basically dependant on it to eat and sleep which is why I tried so many times hoping that the side effects would not come. I also tried other choleretics like artichoke leaf and ox bile and they have the same benefits of making me SIBO free for a few days when I take one capsule but also the same side effects so I am not sure if I ****88 something up with my liver or what. I thought that maybe its die off symptoms but I'm not sure if it can last this long and cause symptoms this severe. Now I am back to square 1 and eat very little and can't sleep because of blocked nose which makes life so hard. Next I am thinking to try rifaximin and hope that it can put me into remission for a few months with SIBO and help with my allergy symptoms. This will be my first time taking antibiotics for SIBO. Also I am going to try quercetin for allergy/endotoxin issues to see if it helps. I would really appreciate any advice or thoughts you may have. Thanks for reading.

Hi, do you know what your average temp and pulse rate are first thing in the morning and about 20–30 minutes after you eat? Poor thyroid function is often involved in cases of SIBO and allergies. I had SIBO (both hydrogen and methane) for 7 years and severe food allergies to the point of anaphylaxis, gallbladder disease, was prescribed many courses of antibiotics (rifaximin, neomycin and minocycline), took many herbs including pharmaceutical strength oregano oil and it didn’t resolve until my doctor prescribed me NDT and I temporarily removed specific foods that exacerbated the SIBO from my diet.

 

[user8374]

Hi, do you know what your average temp and pulse rate are first thing in the morning and about 20–30 minutes after you eat? Poor thyroid function is often involved in cases of SIBO and allergies. I had SIBO (both hydrogen and methane) for 7 years and severe food allergies to the point of anaphylaxis, gallbladder disease, was prescribed many courses of antibiotics (rifaximin, neomycin and minocycline), took many herbs including pharmaceutical strength oregano oil and it didn’t resolve until my doctor prescribed me NDT and I temporarily removed specific foods that exacerbated the SIBO from my diet.

Hi, I am not sure about my average temp and pulse rate but I'll try to measure it soon. I had a blood test a few days ago and I am waiting for the results. I think it will show thyroid function too but if not I will test it separately and update on this thread. Thanks for the info.

 

[Mufasa]

Eat carrots before every meal.

 

[InChristAlone]

Good point, when do we think the best time to take ox bile would be? In the morning with zero food in your stomach? Or late at night when most of it has been digested?

An hour after meals I believe. This YouTube channel is extremely helpful for this kind of information:


He actually doesn't recommend ox bile for those with gallbladders. He prefers to work on issues with bile flow. He also doesn't recommend antibiotics. I haven't seen too many people recover their health with antibiotics. It can obviously help when someone is extremely ridden with bacteria but for those with chronic issues I just don't see how they can do anything but cause more dysbiosis (hence why the risk for diarrhea is so high while on them).

 

[user8374]

I have changed my mind about taking the antibiotics. Artichoke leaf and ox bile are more than enough to produce enough bile and kill bacteria and make me symptom free. I am going to take a few months break from them though. Also I mentioned before that fats gives me blocked nose but I started drinking half a cup of squeezed lemon juice with meals and I am 90% symptom free, its amazing. If I do miss lemon juice with a fatty meal I will get a stuffy nose. Dr haines ely recommended citrus flavonoids or quercetin supplement for endotoxemia and I guess lemon juice is the whole food version of citrus flavonoids. If anyone has similar issues I'd definitely recommend trying it.