Carnivore for sibo temporarily? hypothyroid/hashis advice please

[Peachy]

Yes sure, it's nothing more than ingesting a lot of vitamin c powder really. I got a lot of inspiration from the site gutsense.org, but his "protocol" is vitamin c and magnesium citrate. The basic mechanism is that the body excretes the excess vitamin c with water back into the large intestine and stimulating a bowel movement. I've used both calcium ascorbate and ascorbic acid and haven't noticed any difference. I've also mixed the powder together with my coral calcium/magnesium supplement, just out of convenience.

Thank you!

 

[redsun]

Hello,
I'm new to this website/forum and I really like Peat's principles of what I understand so far.
However, I have extremely high methane SIBO, hypothyroidism/hashimotos, and extremely high inflammation.
I can't tolerate sugar well at all and my digestion is jacked. I'm wondering if I can adopt carnivore as a temporary relief for my sibo while taking a digestive aid called GB3:
it's used to treat gut dybosis and candida/parasites. I've tried allicin/oregano oil and tumeric for a month and didn't feel any relief.
I'm confused as to what I should be tackling first, I'm also in half a battle convincing my endo I have debilitating fatigue my T3 is minus 2.8, FT4: 15.7, TSH:1.98 and he's not convinced and says I could have CFS and not hypothyroid lol.

I also do coffee enemas once a week as I suspect the root cause of my hashis is the COPPER IUD!
So I am trying to eliminate heavy metals and increase gut motility with them.
I've been taking t3 thybon henning but in 10mg instead of 20 now for a few days under supervision from a functional doctor. I was taking it for a month and felt very little difference, just more anxiety and insomia (albeit I was keto during this so it may have been too much stress) and I wasn't taking full dose.
I'm now taking rifaximin 550mgx3 with high dose alicin 2700mg a day.

My functional doctor wants me to take neomycine and rifaximin he wasn't even aware what rifaximin was untill I told him about it, so i'm hesitant to try any of those black box antibiotics for it if my thyroid is still impaired anyway. I want to try anything before resorting to that.
My logic is if I can at least calm my gut down then that will help with thyroid conversion until I can be properly medicated, then transition from carnivore to a peat lifestyle?
I guess I'm just asking for advice. I know carnivore is not well received on this site but I don't know what to do from here. Eating every few hours (especially carbs) exacerbates all of my symptoms and fatiuge/inflammation. I'm a 25 yr old woman and I can barely function. My functional doctor also advised me to do HIT workouts which I don't understand, isn't that counterproductive??
Any advise please I'm desperate.

What do you eat now?

The root of SIBO is hypothyroidism which caused reduced gut motility and reduced stomach acid production. A very animal meat heavy diet would help provide more selenium which will help hashimoto's thyroiditis and improve thyroid function. Because you are a woman, which is associated with increased risk, and considering you mention very poor functioning in general, you should get tested for anemia and iron deficiency. Iron deficiency will cause hypothyroidism which will then lead to SIBO and will also cause very bad fatigue on top of it.

You may need more zinc as well if the copper IUD is causing problems. Zinc is vital for digestion (its needed to make stomach acid and other digestive enzymes) and thyroid hormone function and lack of which can contribute to digestive disorders.

We have no idea how you ate before. My guess is like most people, you just have not eaten well. Not a lot of diet variation and poor food choices has led to multiple nutritional deficiencies. So really that is what you need to work on. What foods have you been eating before you came here?

If you can eat rice I suggest you eat it. No need to do carnivore but I would suggest a diet very high in red meat as this will provide the iron, zinc, selenium you need. Rice provides the carbs. Problem is just meat and rice will exacerbate other nutritional deficiencies because they don't give you everything you need.

And because you will still miss out on things, you will not fix your low energy, hypothyroid state which is causing your SIBO. You should consume a few eggs as well and 1 to 2 servings of whatever form of dairy you can tolerate. You need the choline in eggs for digestive function. Lack of choline in the diet will also reduce gut motility and stomach acid. This will help cover nutrients meat and rice are missing. Most people can still tolerate cheese or do better with fermented dairy like yogurt/kefir. Find what works best. Doesnt need to be perfect and you are not going to be symptom free but this will reduce the chance of you further worsening your nutritional status and thus your health. You also would benefit from some iodine supplementation.

So in short, first thing I recommend you do, is get a CBC, iron panel to test for iron deficiency, test plasma zinc levels, test serum copper to see if the IUD gave you copper toxicity. Thats what you should do for tests if you can.

Diet should be red meat, rice, 2-3 eggs a day, 2-3 servings of some form of dairy you can tolerate. You would also benefit from an iodine supplement to make sure you get plenty which will also help your SIBO and fatigue. If you can't do eggs or dairy you must take an iodine supplement but even then I suggest you take one because of your health issues. It should be especially helpful for fatigue.

Naturesplus on amazon has a good potassium iodide supplement that has 150mcg per tablet, which is a good amount and not excessive so should be helpful. Haidut's Tocovit supplement is also good to take, 1 drop a day to get vitamin E which you also need. If you dont get vitamin E in your diet you need to supplement it.

I think your endocrinologist is partially right. You are not in truly bad hypothyroid territory but you don't have optimal thyroid function because you likely are missing zinc, selenium, possibly iron and iodine so your thyroid can't work as well as its supposed to because the function of the thyroid is dependent on so many nutrients.

 

[unsubscribed]

It’s not about you. It’s about the collective. The whole. And for me personally, the integrity of Peat’s life work.
It is surprising to click on a thread where it’s endorsed vs questioned (can she even digest meat? Phosphorus concerns. PTH. Stressed metabolism. Lifestyle. Dietary history. Supplemental history. Etc.)

This is very “cult” minded. It’s about the individual and the collective. I don’t meditate directly for the collective, it is I who taps into the collective.
If you are well, it doesn’t make the sick healthy.
She will learn as we all learned, through trial and error.
Wholeness

 

[Momma]

This is very “cult” minded. It’s about the individual and the collective. I don’t meditate directly for the collective, it is I who taps into the collective.
If you are well, it doesn’t make the sick healthy.
She will learn as we all learned, through trial and error.
Wholeness

Im busy here; but allow me to briefly respond. It was five out of five people (collectively) on the Ray Peat forum stating what to do or endorsing the diet. Not asking one question or pointing out its strengths and weaknesses to a first time poster. As you said yourself, you were speaking from your personal experience. If the OP called into a show where Peat was taking questions: carnivore would not be encouraged. At all. She is new to the forum and his work. She could get rote carnivore endorsements just about anywhere. Ray offers more.

 

[unsubscribed]

Im busy here; but allow me to briefly respond. It was five out of five people (collectively) on the Ray Peat forum stating what to do or endorsing the diet. Not asking one question or pointing out its strengths and weaknesses to a first time poster. As you said yourself, you were speaking from your personal experience. If the OP called into a show where Peat was taking questions: carnivore would not be encouraged. At all. She is new to the forum and his work. She could get rote carnivore endorsements just about anywhere. Ray offers more.

You’re all hypotheticals Momma. If doesn’t matter here. You could simply answer the question yourself without dictating what is wrong or right. Anything can be used as a tool to better health. Anything.
5 out of 5 hey, maybe it does help in the short term?

Onward.

 

[Momma]

You’re all hypotheticals Momma. If doesn’t matter here. You could simply answer the question yourself without dictating what is wrong or right. Anything can be used as a tool to better health. Anything.
5 out of 5 hey, maybe it does help in the short term?

Onward.

Im all hypotheticals? Does that mean you are absolutes?

However you are correct; Im definitely a right or wrong person when it comes to Peat. I’d hate to see the forum move away from some of his foundations. Also, genuinely trying to be helpful.

 

[unsubscribed]

Im all hypotheticals? Does that mean you are absolutes?

However you are correct; Im definitely a right or wrong person when it comes to Peat. I’d hate to see the forum move away from some of his foundations. Also, genuinely trying to be helpful.

Absolutely not Momma. There is wisdom in knowing nothing. ~ Socrates.

I don’t know anything, I simply offered an opinion and you came across as dismissive.

 

[exile]

I think rifaximin and neomycin together is commonly thought best for methane dominant Sibo. Ray said “Erythromycin and tetracycline would be safer and probably more effective, much quicker.” for Sibo. Not sure if that was methane dominant or if he differentiated between the two.

 

[ratqueen]

What do you eat now?

The root of SIBO is hypothyroidism which caused reduced gut motility and reduced stomach acid production. A very animal meat heavy diet would help provide more selenium which will help hashimoto's thyroiditis and improve thyroid function. Because you are a woman, which is associated with increased risk, and considering you mention very poor functioning in general, you should get tested for anemia and iron deficiency. Iron deficiency will cause hypothyroidism which will then lead to SIBO and will also cause very bad fatigue on top of it.

You may need more zinc as well if the copper IUD is causing problems. Zinc is vital for digestion (its needed to make stomach acid and other digestive enzymes) and thyroid hormone function and lack of which can contribute to digestive disorders.

We have no idea how you ate before. My guess is like most people, you just have not eaten well. Not a lot of diet variation and poor food choices has led to multiple nutritional deficiencies. So really that is what you need to work on. What foods have you been eating before you came here?

If you can eat rice I suggest you eat it. No need to do carnivore but I would suggest a diet very high in red meat as this will provide the iron, zinc, selenium you need. Rice provides the carbs. Problem is just meat and rice will exacerbate other nutritional deficiencies because they don't give you everything you need.

And because you will still miss out on things, you will not fix your low energy, hypothyroid state which is causing your SIBO. You should consume a few eggs as well and 1 to 2 servings of whatever form of dairy you can tolerate. You need the choline in eggs for digestive function. Lack of choline in the diet will also reduce gut motility and stomach acid. This will help cover nutrients meat and rice are missing. Most people can still tolerate cheese or do better with fermented dairy like yogurt/kefir. Find what works best. Doesnt need to be perfect and you are not going to be symptom free but this will reduce the chance of you further worsening your nutritional status and thus your health. You also would benefit from some iodine supplementation.

So in short, first thing I recommend you do, is get a CBC, iron panel to test for iron deficiency, test plasma zinc levels, test serum copper to see if the IUD gave you copper toxicity. Thats what you should do for tests if you can.

Diet should be red meat, rice, 2-3 eggs a day, 2-3 servings of some form of dairy you can tolerate. You would also benefit from an iodine supplement to make sure you get plenty which will also help your SIBO and fatigue. If you can't do eggs or dairy you must take an iodine supplement but even then I suggest you take one because of your health issues. It should be especially helpful for fatigue.

Naturesplus on amazon has a good potassium iodide supplement that has 150mcg per tablet, which is a good amount and not excessive so should be helpful. Haidut's Tocovit supplement is also good to take, 1 drop a day to get vitamin E which you also need. If you dont get vitamin E in your diet you need to supplement it.

I think your endocrinologist is partially right. You are not in truly bad hypothyroid territory but you don't have optimal thyroid function because you likely are missing zinc, selenium, possibly iron and iodine so your thyroid can't work as well as its supposed to because the function of the thyroid is dependent on so many nutrients.

First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I should have stated more background to clarify for people, but I wrote it out of desperation and wanted quick responses.
For past diet around 14-19 on wards I had a binge/restrict cycle(stupid dieting, ocd mental health issues, trauma), The copper IUD was fitted when I was around 19, around this time I also developed PMS.

Around 21, 22 I started taking an interest in food and nutrition eating primarily animal fats with some carbs, good quality too after watching youtubers like frank tufano.
I was paying for pasture raised meats and raw dairy. Noticed a significant improvement in my energy and mood, but always struggled with insomnia after being prescribed SSRIS at (in my opinion an illegal age) of around 15/16 years old prozac 20mg. Around 23 my health started taking a deep hit and I even resorted to eating raw liver for a while thinking it was a nutritional problem. There were times I would eat raw liver and feel euphoric/energized, but my theory is I was relying on this too much in combination with the copper iud, not realizing I was accumulating toxicity. I also tried MDMA a few times in the space of a few years (21-24) which probably didn't help my stress hormones lol, I maybe did it 2-3 times out of a year with a gap of a year inbetween.

I had no idea until around 24 copper toxicity was even a thing. I was waking up with what I know now was debilitating inflammation. I'm talking nearly bed-ridden, being fobbed off by doctors as they only ever checked my TSH and being told I was fine. Eventually they checked my inflammatory markers for my liver were especially high (which also points to me it was metal toxicity). The pain continued to get worse but after removing it it did not increase but took a very long time for the pain to subside. The osteopath I saw was in disbelief I was even functioning. I was developing paranoia and during this pain I was working as a cleaner, surrounding myself with cleaning chemicals and working through the inflammation, on my feet up to 5 hours a day. Naturally my body just started shutting down which I think now was my thyroid saying enough. I was in the UK and doing everything through the NHS as I couldn't afford private, now I am seeing a functional doctor occasionally. I couldn't tolerate any noise/light, and my nervous system is for sure jacked now. I was also stressed out my eye balls because of the BS covid, I was living with my parents at the time, one of them is a narcissist so I was in constant fight or flight and obsessing about them dying, trying to convince them not to take it etc


In my first post I should have stated I have had bloods done, albeit not all but most and these were the findings in response to what you said zinc was actually quite high: 93, reference markers being 58-103, copper also quite high being 131, ref 80-155, feratin was 247 and reference was 15-150 so that seems very high.
Those results I mentioned were only completed in October so fairly recent. I have done an extensive blood panel which covers other minerals/nutrients as well which I can provide. My b12 was also on the higher end which I find quite odd. My grandmother had trouble absorbing b12 and needed injections, I mentioned the high b12 levels but it didn't seem to concern either of my doctors as I was under the impression sibo causes poor absorption of this so led me to pondering on MTHFR mutation.

Around summer this year I started eating low fodmap which was quite restrictive due to sibo.
Anyway I have only just started reducing PUFAS, i was eating store bought lamb before including the fat, never for beef or chicken though.
I've been eating primarily meats the last 6 months, very little vegetables/fruit/refined sugar(thought sugar was the devil), lots of raw milk and occasional pasture eggs(not regularly though). Very little carbs as they also caused me to blow up. I've started incorporating glycine now when I eat my meat.
I was eating easily 500grams of meat a day if not more, and still am.
Around October I started taking T3 but was waking up through the night, sweats, horrible anxiety, but I more attribute this to combining fasting, poor blood sugar, and keto all at once (my doctor advised me to do keto for sibo). After I stopped taking the t3 and eating more it stopped. I can post my lab results if that will help, it's just that they're in dutch


The last 2 months I've been pretty strict with food quality, also rarely drink tap water. I was drinking bottled water for years though thinking it was healthy.
I was also fasting after the sibo diagnoses (before I knew I had poor thyroid function). I eat liver once a week or 2 weeks, been eating at least 6-7 oysters a week and lots of coconut oil, regular snacking on what I can without reactions. I'd say overall the quality of my food the last 3 years has been much better than the average person, but before that had a rocky ed relationship which involved a lot of fasting *starving*. I was brought up on really low quality crap food though like most people my age, wasn't breast fed. My mother also had an IUD and has "ibs" with CFS. My energy is terrible but its more stable now, less crashes. I have joint pain, extremely tight muscles (feels like i've done a marathon everyday), acne, and of course my hair is very thin, gained weight too but i do very little exercise as its too stressful, bar some light walking.
As for the T3 it's -2.8, from my understanding isn't that confirmed hypothyroid?

 

[KaiKamp]

"other carbs..." what other carbs are there after simple sugars and starches?

Oligosaccharides would be one example, but you could also argue that there's some polysaccharides that don't fit into the "starch" or "fiber" categories (like glycogen; which is similar in length to other starches, but wouldn't likely have the same detrimental effects from consumption.)

 

[GreekDemiGod]

The root of SIBO is hypothyroidism which caused reduced gut motility and reduced stomach acid production

I believe it’s the other way around. E cause doing things that raised my metabolism didn’t make my digestion problems go away.
T4 to T3 conversion is impaired in people with gut issues.

Also, @ratqueen: might want to check for B12 deficiency as an effect of SIBO.

 

[ratqueen]

I believe it’s the other way around. E cause doing things that raised my metabolism didn’t make my digestion problems go away.
T4 to T3 conversion is impaired in people with gut issues.

Also, @ratqueen: might want to check for B12 deficiency as an effect of SIBO.

Thats what I thought. I did carnivore for a brief time(only 30 days), my bm were getting better, skin, energy and so on. I understand cortisol is anti inflammatory but my intestines were so much happier then. I think the sibo has definitely impaired my conversion ability as my tsh and t4 are normal. I want to try it for at least 2 months as I just started I know its not a "fix" and its a band aid, but my theory is if I can get everything to somewhat of a bassline my thyroid levels will improve, wont need abx, etc, then reintroduce healthy/peaty carbs. When I do try to reintroduce sugars right now its very hit and miss so I'm going to just stick with meat for a few weeks with a lot of glycine and vitamin c, magnesium, and digestive aids. I messed up last time coming off carnivore I just ate whatever I wanted assuming it was fixed(wasn't diagnosed then).

Thanks for the confirmation because I don't know if it's the chicken or the egg type situation, but I'm more inclined to just do carnivore briefly now with carbs where I can tolerate it. I was also taking GB3 endo met which I recommend to anyone suffering digestive issues.
Do you have any tips as to how you tackled it? Assuming you also had hypothyroid issues

 

[redsun]

I believe it’s the other way around. E cause doing things that raised my metabolism didn’t make my digestion problems go away.
T4 to T3 conversion is impaired in people with gut issues.

Also, @ratqueen: might want to check for B12 deficiency as an effect of SIBO.

Hypothyroidism is literally almost always a T4 to T3 conversion problem or a reduced amount of total thyroid hormone, which then leads to low T3. So how can it be the other way around when thats exactly what hypothyroidism is? Only a small amount of T3 is produced directly by the thyroid. The rest has to be made by deiodination in other organs and tissues.

Doing things that "raise" metabolism has little to do with improving thyroid and autonomic function. Taking caffeine or some random supplements that supposedly boost the metabolism or the liver or whatever in some form achieves little if it does not improve autonomic function and long-term nutritional status. Even taking thyroid itself will not work if something is missing or even worse it will cause stress reactions and adrenaline. You just push the pedal on an empty tank of gas. Thats why it didn't help much if at all. Because you don't look at the body as the complex system with many moving parts. You just put stuff in your body like most people, whether it is actually relevant or not and cross your fingers and hope something starts to improve.

First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I should have stated more background to clarify for people, but I wrote it out of desperation and wanted quick responses.
For past diet around 14-19 on wards I had a binge/restrict cycle(stupid dieting, ocd mental health issues, trauma), The copper IUD was fitted when I was around 19, around this time I also developed PMS.

Around 21, 22 I started taking an interest in food and nutrition eating primarily animal fats with some carbs, good quality too after watching youtubers like frank tufano.
I was paying for pasture raised meats and raw dairy. Noticed a significant improvement in my energy and mood, but always struggled with insomnia after being prescribed SSRIS at (in my opinion an illegal age) of around 15/16 years old prozac 20mg. Around 23 my health started taking a deep hit and I even resorted to eating raw liver for a while thinking it was a nutritional problem. There were times I would eat raw liver and feel euphoric/energized, but my theory is I was relying on this too much in combination with the copper iud, not realizing I was accumulating toxicity. I also tried MDMA a few times in the space of a few years (21-24) which probably didn't help my stress hormones lol, I maybe did it 2-3 times out of a year with a gap of a year inbetween.

I had no idea until around 24 copper toxicity was even a thing. I was waking up with what I know now was debilitating inflammation. I'm talking nearly bed-ridden, being fobbed off by doctors as they only ever checked my TSH and being told I was fine. Eventually they checked my inflammatory markers for my liver were especially high (which also points to me it was metal toxicity). The pain continued to get worse but after removing it it did not increase but took a very long time for the pain to subside. The osteopath I saw was in disbelief I was even functioning. I was developing paranoia and during this pain I was working as a cleaner, surrounding myself with cleaning chemicals and working through the inflammation, on my feet up to 5 hours a day. Naturally my body just started shutting down which I think now was my thyroid saying enough. I was in the UK and doing everything through the NHS as I couldn't afford private, now I am seeing a functional doctor occasionally. I couldn't tolerate any noise/light, and my nervous system is for sure jacked now. I was also stressed out my eye balls because of the BS covid, I was living with my parents at the time, one of them is a narcissist so I was in constant fight or flight and obsessing about them dying, trying to convince them not to take it etc


In my first post I should have stated I have had bloods done, albeit not all but most and these were the findings in response to what you said zinc was actually quite high: 93, reference markers being 58-103, copper also quite high being 131, ref 80-155, feratin was 247 and reference was 15-150 so that seems very high.
Those results I mentioned were only completed in October so fairly recent. I have done an extensive blood panel which covers other minerals/nutrients as well which I can provide. My b12 was also on the higher end which I find quite odd. My grandmother had trouble absorbing b12 and needed injections, I mentioned the high b12 levels but it didn't seem to concern either of my doctors as I was under the impression sibo causes poor absorption of this so led me to pondering on MTHFR mutation.

Around summer this year I started eating low fodmap which was quite restrictive due to sibo.
Anyway I have only just started reducing PUFAS, i was eating store bought lamb before including the fat, never for beef or chicken though.
I've been eating primarily meats the last 6 months, very little vegetables/fruit/refined sugar(thought sugar was the devil), lots of raw milk and occasional pasture eggs(not regularly though). Very little carbs as they also caused me to blow up. I've started incorporating glycine now when I eat my meat.
I was eating easily 500grams of meat a day if not more, and still am.
Around October I started taking T3 but was waking up through the night, sweats, horrible anxiety, but I more attribute this to combining fasting, poor blood sugar, and keto all at once (my doctor advised me to do keto for sibo). After I stopped taking the t3 and eating more it stopped. I can post my lab results if that will help, it's just that they're in dutch


The last 2 months I've been pretty strict with food quality, also rarely drink tap water. I was drinking bottled water for years though thinking it was healthy.
I was also fasting after the sibo diagnoses (before I knew I had poor thyroid function). I eat liver once a week or 2 weeks, been eating at least 6-7 oysters a week and lots of coconut oil, regular snacking on what I can without reactions. I'd say overall the quality of my food the last 3 years has been much better than the average person, but before that had a rocky ed relationship which involved a lot of fasting *starving*. I was brought up on really low quality crap food though like most people my age, wasn't breast fed. My mother also had an IUD and has "ibs" with CFS. My energy is terrible but its more stable now, less crashes. I have joint pain, extremely tight muscles (feels like i've done a marathon everyday), acne, and of course my hair is very thin, gained weight too but i do very little exercise as its too stressful, bar some light walking.
As for the T3 it's -2.8, from my understanding isn't that confirmed hypothyroid?

I would not eat liver if you had a copper IUD. It defeats the purpose to consume a lot of copper if you were already intoxicated with it not long ago through a device. Too much copper will also contribute to overly tight muscles and sympathetic dominance which will compromise digestion and will contribute to anxiety related symptoms and increased stress.

The carnivore diet does miss out on important nutrients if you don't do it right. And even if you do it right you compromise T3 levels when the diet is low in carbs. Its easy to overeat protein on carnivore especially if you are woman, since women already have lower protein requirements. Its not bad, its just pointless because you really should be getting more carbs which will help reduce stress. You need to have at least a 2-3 eggs every day to get enough choline. Even eating a ton of meat, though it is a source of choline, is not going to give you enough choline. Women's hormonal health also gets even worse when the diet is low in carbs. Its bad for men as well, but its way worse for women.

Choline intake optimally is around 700-800mg. Some do better with more. You need choline for adequate signalling of acetylcholine in the gut and in the autonomic nervous system. In the gut, acetylcholine is involved along with histamine and gastrin to stimulate stomach acid production.

Low stomach acid can be caused by hypothyroidism and it often is but if you lack acetylcholine or zinc or another important aspect involved in the process, thyroid hormone won't work to improve stomach acid production because it has nothing to work with. Your gut motility is also partially dependent on acetylcholine as the smooth muscles which your intestines are made of need acetylcholine to signal contractions and thus movement.

Your tight muscles, hair thinning, are other signs of sympathetic dominance. More choline, less total protein (dont go crazy on the meat) and more carbs will improve this. Find the carbs that you can tolerate and aim for close to 300g a day split throughout the day.

If at the time you tested ferritin, you also tested C-reactive protein and it was also high, then likely ferritin is falsely elevated due to inflammation. If not you may have iron overload, which is not common in women but its possible the copper from the IUD made you more susceptible to iron overload since you already eat quite a bit of iron and copper improves iron absorption even further. Iron overload can cause joint pain, high inflammation, and possibly lead to diabetes, liver and heart problems.

 

[LadyRae]

Hypothyroidism is literally almost always a T4 to T3 conversion problem or a reduced amount of total thyroid hormone, which then leads to low T3. So how can it be the other way around when thats exactly what hypothyroidism is? Only a small amount of T3 is produced directly by the thyroid. The rest has to be made by deiodination in other organs and tissues.

Doing things that "raise" metabolism has little to do with improving thyroid and autonomic function. Taking caffeine or some random supplements that supposedly boost the metabolism or the liver or whatever in some form achieves little if it does not improve autonomic function and long-term nutritional status. Even taking thyroid itself will not work if something is missing or even worse it will cause stress reactions and adrenaline. You just push the pedal on an empty tank of gas. Thats why it didn't help much if at all. Because you don't look at the body as the complex system with many moving parts. You just put stuff in your body like most people, whether it is actually relevant or not and cross your fingers and hope something starts to improve.


I would not eat liver if you had a copper IUD. It defeats the purpose to consume a lot of copper if you were already intoxicated with it not long ago through a device. Too much copper will also contribute to overly tight muscles and sympathetic dominance which will compromise digestion and will contribute to anxiety related symptoms and increased stress.

The carnivore diet does miss out on important nutrients if you don't do it right. And even if you do it right you compromise T3 levels when the diet is low in carbs. Its easy to overeat protein on carnivore especially if you are woman, since women already have lower protein requirements. Its not bad, its just pointless because you really should be getting more carbs which will help reduce stress. You need to have at least a 2-3 eggs every day to get enough choline. Even eating a ton of meat, though it is a source of choline, is not going to give you enough choline. Women's hormonal health also gets even worse when the diet is low in carbs. Its bad for men as well, but its way worse for women.

Choline intake optimally is around 700-800mg. Some do better with more. You need choline for adequate signalling of acetylcholine in the gut and in the autonomic nervous system. In the gut, acetylcholine is involved along with histamine and gastrin to stimulate stomach acid production.

Low stomach acid can be caused by hypothyroidism and it often is but if you lack acetylcholine or zinc or another important aspect involved in the process, thyroid hormone won't work to improve stomach acid production because it has nothing to work with. Your gut motility is also partially dependent on acetylcholine as the smooth muscles which your intestines are made of need acetylcholine to signal contractions and thus movement.

Your tight muscles, hair thinning, are other signs of sympathetic dominance. More choline, less total protein (dont go crazy on the meat) and more carbs will improve this. Find the carbs that you can tolerate and aim for close to 300g a day split throughout the day.

If at the time you tested ferritin, you also tested C-reactive protein and it was also high, then likely ferritin is falsely elevated due to inflammation. If not you may have iron overload, which is not common in women but its possible the copper from the IUD made you more susceptible to iron overload since you already eat quite a bit of iron and copper improves iron absorption even further. Iron overload can cause joint pain, high inflammation, and possibly lead to diabetes, liver and heart problems.

Masterful response

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Yeah, and conversion problems can be from endotoxin, which again points to dysbiosis as root cause.

 

[ratqueen]

I believe it’s the other way around. E cause doing things that raised my metabolism didn’t make my digestion problems go away.
T4 to T3 conversion is impaired in people with gut issues.

Also, @ratqueen: might want to check for B12 deficiency as an effect of SIBO.

Late replies to this thread but thank you so much, I definitely believe the dysbiosis is affecting it but it could also be an RT3 issue (which goes hand in hand i guess)I have finally found someone who will test all of this and try to optimize it as I believe treating the dysbiosis right now is near impossible due to my bed bound state.

Hypothyroidism is literally almost always a T4 to T3 conversion problem or a reduced amount of total thyroid hormone, which then leads to low T3. So how can it be the other way around when thats exactly what hypothyroidism is? Only a small amount of T3 is produced directly by the thyroid. The rest has to be made by deiodination in other organs and tissues.

Doing things that "raise" metabolism has little to do with improving thyroid and autonomic function. Taking caffeine or some random supplements that supposedly boost the metabolism or the liver or whatever in some form achieves little if it does not improve autonomic function and long-term nutritional status. Even taking thyroid itself will not work if something is missing or even worse it will cause stress reactions and adrenaline. You just push the pedal on an empty tank of gas. Thats why it didn't help much if at all. Because you don't look at the body as the complex system with many moving parts. You just put stuff in your body like most people, whether it is actually relevant or not and cross your fingers and hope something starts to improve.


I would not eat liver if you had a copper IUD. It defeats the purpose to consume a lot of copper if you were already intoxicated with it not long ago through a device. Too much copper will also contribute to overly tight muscles and sympathetic dominance which will compromise digestion and will contribute to anxiety related symptoms and increased stress.

The carnivore diet does miss out on important nutrients if you don't do it right. And even if you do it right you compromise T3 levels when the diet is low in carbs. Its easy to overeat protein on carnivore especially if you are woman, since women already have lower protein requirements. Its not bad, its just pointless because you really should be getting more carbs which will help reduce stress. You need to have at least a 2-3 eggs every day to get enough choline. Even eating a ton of meat, though it is a source of choline, is not going to give you enough choline. Women's hormonal health also gets even worse when the diet is low in carbs. Its bad for men as well, but its way worse for women.

Choline intake optimally is around 700-800mg. Some do better with more. You need choline for adequate signalling of acetylcholine in the gut and in the autonomic nervous system. In the gut, acetylcholine is involved along with histamine and gastrin to stimulate stomach acid production.

Low stomach acid can be caused by hypothyroidism and it often is but if you lack acetylcholine or zinc or another important aspect involved in the process, thyroid hormone won't work to improve stomach acid production because it has nothing to work with. Your gut motility is also partially dependent on acetylcholine as the smooth muscles which your intestines are made of need acetylcholine to signal contractions and thus movement.

Your tight muscles, hair thinning, are other signs of sympathetic dominance. More choline, less total protein (dont go crazy on the meat) and more carbs will improve this. Find the carbs that you can tolerate and aim for close to 300g a day split throughout the day.

If at the time you tested ferritin, you also tested C-reactive protein and it was also high, then likely ferritin is falsely elevated due to inflammation. If not you may have iron overload, which is not common in women but its possible the copper from the IUD made you more susceptible to iron overload since you already eat quite a bit of iron and copper improves iron absorption even further. Iron overload can cause joint pain, high inflammation, and possibly lead to diabetes, liver and heart problems.

Sorry I never got back to you it's been extremley up and down. Just wanted to say thanks so much for the insightful response and help. I'm no longer keto after limited success still primarily eat meat though and don't react to honey too particularly so I've incorporated that. I am seeing someone soon who is specialized in chronic illnesses and hypothyroidism so I will hopefully have more positive results in the next few months. I wasted 3-4 months with someone who was not concerned about my thyroid despite my T3 being under range and RT3 very elevated. She wants me to do a gut plan for 6 months or so even though in the meantime i've been slowly dying and disabled. Won't even consdier my thyroid. Probably a functional doctor con so i keep buying supps. Found out i have leaky gut which is no surprise there

Thanks again!!