Coming from carnivore keto, how to improve?

qwazy

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
77
Hi all,
I am coming from a carnivore/paleo ketogenic diet and try to improve my health further.

The all meat diet did improve my health a lot. However, I could not fully fix my digestion. Thus, I started to use some antimicrobials which improved things. However, most effects from the natural antibiotics were only of short duration. Annoyingly, my latest stool test does not show any pathogenic flora so I do not know what I am going after. Still, I previously tested positive for c diff but without the toxin a & b so this could be an issue with the spores.

Besides the digestion issues, other symptoms are:
  • White tongue (very unlikely to be candida, more just a sign of impaired gut health).
  • Still allergic to a lot of things but vastly improved compared to pre-carnivore and natural antibiotics.
  • I often need a long time to fall asleep (20min) and cannot take naps (sign of stress or hyperthyroidism?).
  • Difficulties sweating and once I sweat I get itchy
  • Dry skin on face and often puffy eyes after waking up (allergy/histamine/serotonin?)
  • Visual snow
  • Often soft stool - diarrhea tendency
  • Light brain fog
  • Light arrhythmia
  • Muscle twitching connected to diarrhea

My thyroid function on keto:
  • TSH = 0.046mU/l (Might be caused by the iodine I was taking at that point. However, my TSH has always been quite low)
  • fT4 = 23.3pmol/l (3.77pg/ml)
  • fT3 = 5.79pmol/l (18.1ng/l)
  • Resting pulse was around 60. Now with the sugar it is about 85.

Hence, I started to take on some Peat principles. The cooked mushrooms really made a difference in my wellbeing as they clear out my gut. They have definitely raised my T too as I now get massive morning wood every day. However, carbs etc seem to make me slightly worse. I have not measured my temperature but I feel warm when I wake up and often get cold when eating carbs. I've read that this can be due to elevated stress hormones? How can I best test for that and fix the issue? I could also imagine that the carbs are simply triggering low grade allergies/increase endotoxin uptake which is also stress.

Currently, I eat to hunger. I do not count macros but I guess I eat around 100-150g of proteins, 100-150g of fat and 300-400g of carbs per day which is generally made up of:

Proteins
  • Ruminant Meat
  • About half a kg of beef or veal liver a week
  • Eggs
  • Gelatin
Fats
  • Butter
  • Beef Tallow
  • Refined Coconut Oil
Sugar
  • Raw Honey
  • Fresh OJ
  • Cooked Bananas
  • Cooked Apples
Gut Cleaners
  • Cooked Mushrooms (daily)
  • Raw Carrot (once in a while)
Stimulants
  • Coffee
Supplements
  • Vit K2MK4
  • Magnesium Glycinate
  • Vit D3
  • (Aspirin - Probably allergic to it so dropping it)
  • (Calcium Carbonate - Not noticing benefits so dropping it)

Otherwise:
  • Following the Buteyko method which gave me huge benefits
  • When I exercise or my body warms up and generally stays warm for quite a long time.
  • Saunas make me feel good and my skin less dry. But because of the Corona stuff I currently do not have access to a sauna.


I will try the following:
  • Penicilline VK
  • Cascara Sagrada
  • Cypro
  • (Possibly chlorine dioxide, kefir, and other antibiotics)

So now I wonder if you have some recommendations for me to improve my health? I don't think taking thyroid will improve me. My guess is that I have to get my gut in a really good condition to decrease the stress hormones since I felt absolutely amazing for a couple of days while on rifaximin or natural antimicrobials. However, as stated before the effects were not permanent. Also pointing me towards some useful tests/blood markers is highly appreciated.
 
B

BRBsavinWorld

Guest
Hi all,
I am coming from a carnivore/paleo ketogenic diet and try to improve my health further.

The all meat diet did improve my health a lot. However, I could not fully fix my digestion. Thus, I started to use some antimicrobials which improved things. However, most effects from the natural antibiotics were only of short duration. Annoyingly, my latest stool test does not show any pathogenic flora so I do not know what I am going after. Still, I previously tested positive for c diff but without the toxin a & b so this could be an issue with the spores.

Besides the digestion issues, other symptoms are:
  • White tongue (very unlikely to be candida, more just a sign of impaired gut health).
  • Still allergic to a lot of things but vastly improved compared to pre-carnivore and natural antibiotics.
  • I often need a long time to fall asleep (20min) and cannot take naps (sign of stress or hyperthyroidism?).
  • Difficulties sweating and once I sweat I get itchy
  • Dry skin on face and often puffy eyes after waking up (allergy/histamine/serotonin?)
  • Visual snow
  • Often soft stool - diarrhea tendency
  • Light brain fog
  • Light arrhythmia
  • Muscle twitching connected to diarrhea

My thyroid function on keto:
  • TSH = 0.046mU/l (Might be caused by the iodine I was taking at that point. However, my TSH has always been quite low)
  • fT4 = 23.3pmol/l (3.77pg/ml)
  • fT3 = 5.79pmol/l (18.1ng/l)
  • Resting pulse was around 60. Now with the sugar it is about 85.

Hence, I started to take on some Peat principles. The cooked mushrooms really made a difference in my wellbeing as they clear out my gut. They have definitely raised my T too as I now get massive morning wood every day. However, carbs etc seem to make me slightly worse. I have not measured my temperature but I feel warm when I wake up and often get cold when eating carbs. I've read that this can be due to elevated stress hormones? How can I best test for that and fix the issue? I could also imagine that the carbs are simply triggering low grade allergies/increase endotoxin uptake which is also stress.

Currently, I eat to hunger. I do not count macros but I guess I eat around 100-150g of proteins, 100-150g of fat and 300-400g of carbs per day which is generally made up of:

Proteins
  • Ruminant Meat
  • About half a kg of beef or veal liver a week
  • Eggs
  • Gelatin
Fats
  • Butter
  • Beef Tallow
  • Refined Coconut Oil
Sugar
  • Raw Honey
  • Fresh OJ
  • Cooked Bananas
  • Cooked Apples
Gut Cleaners
  • Cooked Mushrooms (daily)
  • Raw Carrot (once in a while)
Stimulants
  • Coffee
Supplements
  • Vit K2MK4
  • Magnesium Glycinate
  • Vit D3
  • (Aspirin - Probably allergic to it so dropping it)
  • (Calcium Carbonate - Not noticing benefits so dropping it)

Otherwise:
  • Following the Buteyko method which gave me huge benefits
  • When I exercise or my body warms up and generally stays warm for quite a long time.
  • Saunas make me feel good and my skin less dry. But because of the Corona stuff I currently do not have access to a sauna.


I will try the following:
  • Penicilline VK
  • Cascara Sagrada
  • Cypro
  • (Possibly chlorine dioxide, kefir, and other antibiotics)

So now I wonder if you have some recommendations for me to improve my health? I don't think taking thyroid will improve me. My guess is that I have to get my gut in a really good condition to decrease the stress hormones since I felt absolutely amazing for a couple of days while on rifaximin or natural antimicrobials. However, as stated before the effects were not permanent. Also pointing me towards some useful tests/blood markers is highly appreciated.

I did keto-carnivore for about 1 year and 3 months.

supping natural desiccated thyroid helped me tremendously in the long run. I tried it for a month when I started taking Peat seriously. But, it can take a few years of daily supplementing to restore optimum thyroid levels in the body. So, I tried it in earnest for the last 3 months, upping my dose significantly (keeping up calorie intake), and the change has been incredible. I finally sleep a full 8-9 hours, without waking up in the middle of the night to urinate, and I don’t have that bad an urge when I get up in the morning. Ray says that 1/3 your water consumption Should be urinated out, the rest should be used and exhaled, in optimum thyroid state. Truth be told I haven’t done that before, in my whole life. My workouts and recovery are a million times better, too. Of all the pro-sleep advices on here that I’ve tried (gelatin, more calories, more fat, casein, honey, supplements) thyroid Finally restored normal sleep.

And, even tho you don’t feel benefit yet, calcium is absolutely crucial for your body’s production of thyroid hormone. If you’re not consuming a lot of dairy, I strongly encourage it. I supp it to my dairy even tho I eat a lot of dairy and drink 3-4 quarts of milk a day. Check out Ray’s research in the calcium:phosphorus ratio, and how it’s vital for slowing aging and reducing stress.

I actually ate cooked apples when I started incorporating carbs, idk where I got it from, but I was incessant that my sugar source be most “natural.” I now know via Peat, that The high pectin content messes up the gut: it’s soluble fiber. When I stopped eating apples, and just replaced it with white sugar and more honey, I felt significantly better. When I’m not feeling great, I’ll even just shoot a spoonful of sugar. Definitely increase your potassium consumption tho. Ray says that only 8% of “insulinic” activity is performed by insulin itself, and that potassium makes up the majority of “insulinic” function. So I add cream of tartar to my daily soups and icecream. You can also take a shot in the morning. Just keep your salt consumption to as high a concentration as you enjoy. Also, you may want to increase your liver and oyster consumption due to the more depleted sugar sources you eat.

Unfortunately, bananas have significantly higher levels of chitinases in them than 40 years ago, due to high stress industrial methods. These antinutrients are very toxic to humans, and cause many allergies. Ray has spoken on this, too.

Google “toxinless.com orange juice,” for Dan’s great compilation of Peat approved oj. After about a year of living on oj, I finally looked into this because I was feeling better when deprived of it. So, I grabbed the plain Whole Foods carton brand oj, and felt better. I’m noticing that I still feel better when I limit oj in general.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of your improvements would begin by just getting cleaner sources of sugar. practically all my carb consumption finally comes from milk, honey, vanilla haagen dazs, Maine root brand mexicane cola, occasional Martineli carbonated juices, and table sugar.

I also experienced improvements from eliminating any supplement that contained silica, gums, or any of the many fillers Ray has cautioned against. I had to drop the store bought aspirin. When you’re looking for a supplement, google each filler next to “raypeat,” it’s saved me countless times. He’s spoken on every toxin on the planet, and there’s usually someone here who shared it, lol.

Other thing that helped me, was dropping any cheese with vegetable rennet/microbial/enzymes — which Ray has also cautioned against.
 

InChristAlone

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
5,955
Location
USA
Half a kilogram of Liver per week?!?!?! Well there is your issue. Look up hypervitaminosis A. These carnivore diets are dangerous due to the belief eating liver can't harm you.
 

InChristAlone

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
5,955
Location
USA
And if you think you have a microbe problem it's probably your toxic bile. I have this ancient pboy post about bile that was really amazing. The Carrot Salad Might Help You With
 
B

BRBsavinWorld

Guest
Heads up, Just know that there’s currently a debate on this forum between a theory that vitamin A is toxic, and those that (rightly) believe that bioavailable A from animal products is natural. Ray has only spoken of possible problems with supped vitamin A, and beta carotene’s known anti-metabolic effects screwing up the vitamin a pathways in the body.

All you need to account for with increased A, is more sugar and caloric intake in general. It’s incredible pro metabolic, and the higher levels of liver I eat the better I consistently feel... up to a serving a day on top of beef heart. I also ate liver and beef heart when on carnivore diet. Vitamin a coulda been doing one of 2 things: screwing up my metabolism because I didn’t have sugar, or compensating my lack of carb consumption... I don’t know. If you’re ever in question about vitamin A toxicity, just look back on the hunter gatherers like Saami people’s living off reindeer, eskimos, plains Indians, etc. yes they had signs of poor aging, and died sooner than they had to, but they ate organ meats and died around 85 — that’s with very low carb high vitamin A diet.
 

InChristAlone

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
5,955
Location
USA
Heads up, Just know that there’s currently a debate on this forum between a theory that vitamin A is toxic, and those that (rightly) believe that bioavailable A from animal products is natural. Ray has only spoken of possible problems with supped vitamin A, and beta carotene’s known anti-metabolic effects screwing up the vitamin a pathways in the body.

All you need to account for with increased A, is more sugar and caloric intake in general. It’s incredible pro metabolic, and the higher levels of liver I eat the better I consistently feel... up to a serving a day on top of beef heart. I also ate liver and beef heart when on carnivore diet. Vitamin a coulda been doing one of 2 things: screwing up my metabolism because I didn’t have sugar, or compensating my lack of carb consumption... I don’t know. If you’re ever in question about vitamin A toxicity, just look back on the hunter gatherers like Saami people’s living off reindeer, eskimos, plains Indians, etc. yes they had signs of poor aging, and died sooner than they had to, but they ate organ meats and died around 85 — that’s with very low carb high vitamin A diet.
Where does he say you can consume as much liver as you desire? He mentions multiple times too much vitamin A causes hypothyroidism and if you already do have hypothyroidism you may only be able to tolerate 5,000 IU's without toxicity.
 
B

BRBsavinWorld

Guest
Where does he say you can consume as much liver as you desire? He mentions multiple times too much vitamin A causes hypothyroidism and if you already do have hypothyroidism you may only be able to tolerate 5,000 IU's without toxicity.
Ok, if you’re eating a few pounds a week that’s a problem, the guy above was doing 4 times the recommended weekly intake by Ray.
I don’t think that’s his primary problem is my primary concern. I totally don’t mind clarifying my point and suggesting he lower his consumption by 4x.

My point I guess, is that I think his issues would be more readily fixed by suggestions I made, just because I experienced almost the same things. I ate way too much liver, and never stopped, just reduced. And switching from starches to sugar, and eating tonnes of it, was by far a super improvement. I almost question if Ray’s suggestion of vitamin A is too low because of my results, but I don’t try to share advice contrary to his on this forum.
 

mgrabs

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2022
Messages
515
Location
USA
I did keto-carnivore for about 1 year and 3 months.

supping natural desiccated thyroid helped me tremendously in the long run. I tried it for a month when I started taking Peat seriously. But, it can take a few years of daily supplementing to restore optimum thyroid levels in the body. So, I tried it in earnest for the last 3 months, upping my dose significantly (keeping up calorie intake), and the change has been incredible. I finally sleep a full 8-9 hours, without waking up in the middle of the night to urinate, and I don’t have that bad an urge when I get up in the morning. Ray says that 1/3 your water consumption Should be urinated out, the rest should be used and exhaled, in optimum thyroid state. Truth be told I haven’t done that before, in my whole life. My workouts and recovery are a million times better, too. Of all the pro-sleep advices on here that I’ve tried (gelatin, more calories, more fat, casein, honey, supplements) thyroid Finally restored normal sleep.

And, even tho you don’t feel benefit yet, calcium is absolutely crucial for your body’s production of thyroid hormone. If you’re not consuming a lot of dairy, I strongly encourage it. I supp it to my dairy even tho I eat a lot of dairy and drink 3-4 quarts of milk a day. Check out Ray’s research in the calcium:phosphorus ratio, and how it’s vital for slowing aging and reducing stress.

I actually ate cooked apples when I started incorporating carbs, idk where I got it from, but I was incessant that my sugar source be most “natural.” I now know via Peat, that The high pectin content messes up the gut: it’s soluble fiber. When I stopped eating apples, and just replaced it with white sugar and more honey, I felt significantly better. When I’m not feeling great, I’ll even just shoot a spoonful of sugar. Definitely increase your potassium consumption tho. Ray says that only 8% of “insulinic” activity is performed by insulin itself, and that potassium makes up the majority of “insulinic” function. So I add cream of tartar to my daily soups and icecream. You can also take a shot in the morning. Just keep your salt consumption to as high a concentration as you enjoy. Also, you may want to increase your liver and oyster consumption due to the more depleted sugar sources you eat.

Unfortunately, bananas have significantly higher levels of chitinases in them than 40 years ago, due to high stress industrial methods. These antinutrients are very toxic to humans, and cause many allergies. Ray has spoken on this, too.

Google “toxinless.com orange juice,” for Dan’s great compilation of Peat approved oj. After about a year of living on oj, I finally looked into this because I was feeling better when deprived of it. So, I grabbed the plain Whole Foods carton brand oj, and felt better. I’m noticing that I still feel better when I limit oj in general.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of your improvements would begin by just getting cleaner sources of sugar. practically all my carb consumption finally comes from milk, honey, vanilla haagen dazs, Maine root brand mexicane cola, occasional Martineli carbonated juices, and table sugar.

I also experienced improvements from eliminating any supplement that contained silica, gums, or any of the many fillers Ray has cautioned against. I had to drop the store bought aspirin. When you’re looking for a supplement, google each filler next to “raypeat,” it’s saved me countless times. He’s spoken on every toxin on the planet, and there’s usually someone here who shared it, lol.

Other thing that helped me, was dropping any cheese with vegetable rennet/microbial/enzymes — which Ray has also cautioned against.
What dose of NDT did u do?
 

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