Selenium/sulfur side effects

Dr. B

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this was posted by another forum member, and is an interesting article and website


Selenium (Se) and Sulfur (S) are associated trace element / mineral pairs, considered essential to human health. While selenium supplements have been available for many years, sulfur requirements had to be met mostly through dietary sources, primarily eggs, onions and garlic until supplements became available in the mid 1990s. This solved the problem for individuals with below-normal sulfur (or sulphur) levels who couldn't tolerate these foods.
With MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) entering the market, it immediately became so much easier to deal with medical conditions requiring larger amounts of sulfur [1] as part of their treatment. Both, selenium and sulfur bind to a number of heavy, or toxic metals, with selenium being protective against cadmium, arsenic, mercury, and lead, while sulfur (being to a lesser degree protective of the same), is helpful to lower aluminum levels.

Sulfur interferes with the storage of copper, an essential trace element, however with copper levels being on the high side with many people, this is generally a positive effect. It is interesting that patients with normal or below-normal copper levels rarely exhibit deficient sulfur levels. In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive effect on cartilage regeneration, but are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the right side of the body.

Of course, on those rare occasions when copper is actually deficient, sulfur containing supplements - just like larger amounts of Vitamin C - should not be used, as they could trigger, or worsen existing inflammatory conditions.

In addition, individuals with a tendency for blood sugar disorders (diabetes) should be aware of potential negative effect on blood sugar management when taking glucosamine sulfate.

Possible adverse or side effects of consuming higher amounts of sulfur-containing foods or supplements such as glucosamine sulfate, MSM, methionine, taurine, cysteine / cystine... include diarrhea, flatulence / gas, and abdominal bloating, while a small number of patients have experienced a "burning" sensation in their stomach.

With sulfur being a calcium, copper, and potassium antagonist, a high intake of glucosamine sulfate, or MSM may worsen low calcium-related disorders such as insomnia, fatigue, anxieties, or bone loss, aggravate low potassium-related cardiac, or renal / genitourinary conditions, or worsen low copper-related infections.




this would explain the side effects from supplements like MSM and taurine...

they also list some interesting b vitamin interactions

 
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This is a very timely post for me Mr. Bullox. I was just telling Jib this morning that I started upping my husband's milk/calcium intake by a lotvsnd added in MSM because of a debilitating knot on his RIGHT SIDE from a tetanus shot last year and it is working to ease the pain. Now I know I am on the right track with his situation!

"In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive effect on cartilage regeneration, but are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the RIGHT SIDE of the body."
 
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Dr. B

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This is a very timely post for me Mr. Bullox. I was just telling Jib this morning that I started upping my husband's milk/calcium intake by a lotvsnd added in MSM because of a debilitating knot on his RIGHT SIDE from a tetanus shot last year and it is working to ease the pain. Now I know I am on the right track with his situation!

"In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive effect on cartilage regeneration, but are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the RIGHT SIDE of the body."
who is Jib?
yes, although they could affect copper negatively eventually, I do seem to get bloating and constipation from taurine supplements, i never used MSM or other sulfuric supplements long term
 
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Jib is a fellow RPF member. We were talking today on my "Rethinking The Couch Potato's Position". You can get to know more about him better there.

 

aliml

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This is a very timely post for me Mr. Bullox. I was just telling Jib this morning that I started upping my husband's milk/calcium intake by a lotvsnd added in MSM because of a debilitating knot on his RIGHT SIDE from a tetanus shot last year and it is working to ease the pain. Now I know I am on the right track with his situation!

"In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive effect on cartilage regeneration, but are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the RIGHT SIDE of the body."

Pain (shoulders, knees,...) on the right side of the body might is caused by the gallbladder (biliary sludge, gallstone,...).

MSM and Taurine (cholagogue food) also stimulate the gallbladder.

"When the gallbladder channel is blocked it directly affects the knees, and makes them feel painful and locked."


"pain from gallbladder disease may be felt in the top right fron abdomen or top right back."


"The iliotibial (IT) band runs from the lateral side of the hip down to the lateral side of the knee. This band can often be very tight and painful in individuals with gallbladder dysfunction."


"Referred pain due to gallstone (s) is not necessarily exclusive to back pain. Shoulder pain may also be related to referred pain from the gallbladder. This type of pain may often radiate to the right shoulder blade or in between the shoulder blades at the same time as sharp pain is felt in the right abdominal region over the gallbladder. Referred gallstone pain often wraps itself around the right rib cage and to the shoulder area. Referred gallstone pain is a classic gallbladder symptom."

 
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This is a very timely post for me Mr. Bullox. I was just telling Jib this morning that I started upping my husband's milk/calcium intake by a lotvsnd added in MSM because of a debilitating knot on his RIGHT SIDE from a tetanus shot last year and it is working to ease the pain. Now I know I am on the right track with his situation!

"In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive effect on cartilage regeneration, but are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the RIGHT SIDE of the body."

Can you enter the link about the right side of the less developed body?
 

pd001

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Thanks for this post. I actually tried supplementing selenomethionine due to its proposed benefits:

- improved thyroid health
- cancer prevention
- stronger heart health
- mercury poisoning protection
- etc.

[Though I already had been second guessing on supplementing it, since it's bound to methionine.]

But within that day I tried it, hours after, I've felt something around my liver. Actually it was just the other day, so I was wonder why that just happened (was it due to its detoxing effects, I don't know).

And not just that, I also felt sleepy on the day I took it.
 
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Pain (shoulders, knees,...) on the right side of the body might is caused by the gallbladder (biliary sludge, gallstone,...).

MSM and Taurine (cholagogue food) also stimulate the gallbladder.

"When the gallbladder channel is blocked it directly affects the knees, and makes them feel painful and locked."


"pain from gallbladder disease may be felt in the top right fron abdomen or top right back."


"The iliotibial (IT) band runs from the lateral side of the hip down to the lateral side of the knee. This band can often be very tight and painful in individuals with gallbladder dysfunction."


"Referred pain due to gallstone (s) is not necessarily exclusive to back pain. Shoulder pain may also be related to referred pain from the gallbladder. This type of pain may often radiate to the right shoulder blade or in between the shoulder blades at the same time as sharp pain is felt in the right abdominal region over the gallbladder. Referred gallstone pain often wraps itself around the right rib cage and to the shoulder area. Referred gallstone pain is a classic gallbladder symptom."


Thanks for this aliml. I had gall bladder issues 10+ years ago with the doc wanting have mine removed. I declined and added in dandelion and milk and never had the issue again. My husband doesn't have any of the Classics signs of gall bladder with sharp pain, digestive issues or any knee pain. It turns out that blood tests from the City of hope have revealed he has "smoldering myeloma". It seems the tetanus vaccine triggered cancer in motion.
 
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Can you enter the link about the right side of the less developed body?

I'm sorry, my brain is not as clear as usual with a couple if weeks of stress, so I cannot recall where I copied that from. It may have been from the forum where someone else posted it.
 
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peateats1

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I thought someone on the ray peat Facebook page took MSM then ended up with cancer? Ray Peat does not support the supplementation of MSM I would guarantee if you ask him. No offense to the op or anyone else, just saying.
 
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I thought someone on the ray peat Facebook page took MSM then ended up with cancer? Ray Peat does not support the supplementation of MSM I would guarantee if you ask him. No offense to the op or anyone else, just saying.

Ray Peat does not recommend MSM for the same reason he does not recommend -vitamin suppliments, being unsure of it's purity, but that doesn't stop many Peater's from supplimenting vitamin C anyways. He does not recommend bacon either, but he eats it anyways for pleasure, refried in coconut oil. We have to weigh where we want to stray off the "Peat" path, for pleasure or to address a health problem. He doesn't recommend Brewer's yeast, but talks many times about how Brewer's yeast cured his father's diabetes. I took MSM for more than 15+ straight with only good to say about it. I haven't taken it for many years because my Costco brand was no longer available. It has gotten a girlftiend of mine and one of her girlfriends off pain medication and another elderly friend is grateful that it eased the arthritic pain that pain meds didn't,. It cured the arthritis in my three fingers permanently. Some people splurge on starches and pork, and I choose my splurge on things like MSM. I gain nothing from food splurges, but MSM has only served me well. The only way that a person can even possibly end up with cancer from MSM is using a cheap source that had toxins in whatever they were burning to make it aka wood, coconut shells etc...
 
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Gustav3Y

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"In fact, the benefits of sulfur-containing supplements (Glucosamine Sulfate, MSM) on some forms of arthritis are not just a result of their positive effect on cartilage regeneration, but are largely based on lowering elevated copper levels which promote joint degeneration, particularly - or more so - on the RIGHT SIDE of the body."
Copper promotes cartilage degeneration?

Ironically you can find the same about Zinc, and has been discussed before.
Doesn't sulfur also push out Zinc?

"The study was conducted by researchers at South Korea's Gwangju Institute of Science and Technology who found that a protein called ZIP8, which transports zinc into the cartilage cells, triggers cascading molecular events which leads to destruction of cartilage tissue."
 
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I thought someone on the ray peat Facebook page took MSM then ended up with cancer? Ray Peat does not support the supplementation of MSM I would guarantee if you ask him. No offense to the op or anyone else, just saying.

Even supplimenting vitamin C is linked to cancer....

"Chromium 6, the cancer-causing compound that sparked the legal crusade by Erin Brockovich, can be toxic in tiny doses. Brown University scientists have uncovered the unlikely culprit: vitamin C. In new research, the Brown team shows that when vitamin C reacts with even low doses of chromium 6 inside human cells, it creates high levels of cancer-causing DNA damage and mutations."

 

peateats1

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I just don't want people coming on the ray peat forum and thinking that Peat himself approves of using these supplements. So as I said above, I'm not attacking anyone, but wanted to make it known to others that Peat does not recommend MSM. Also, just curious, where did he say he doesn't recommend it due to impurities or the way it's manufactured, rather than because the MSM itself is dangerous? I'd be interested in reading his reasoning if you have a quote or something from him. I thought he stated it could be dangerous or cause cancer, but cannot find where I read that.
 
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Dr. B

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I just don't want people coming on the ray peat forum and thinking that Peat himself approves of using these supplements. So as I said above, I'm not attacking anyone, but wanted to make it known to others that Peat does not recommend MSM. Also, just curious, where did he say he doesn't recommend it due to impurities or the way it's manufactured, rather than because the MSM itself is dangerous? I'd be interested in reading his reasoning if you have a quote or something from him. I thought he stated it could be dangerous or cause cancer, but cannot find where I read that.
i dont think he likes anything methylated as a supplement. choline, b12, methionine, folate, betaine, msm etc. i dont know if he would have other issues with msm. sulfur supplements include cysteine and taurine. i posted regarding side effects of sulfur based supplements, not recommending their usage
 
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"Organic sulfur IS MSM, but MSM is not necessarily organic sulfur. Do not buy MSM unless you are certain it is pure organic sulfur (i.e. it has no fillers or chemicals).

True organic sulfur is suggested to be effective in dealing with pain (because it gets oxygen inside the cells) and it can deal with inflammation for the same reason. But this oxygen also can kill the microbes inside the cancer cells which in turn can rever the cancer cells into normal cells.

It is also said to take the “trash” out of the cell every 12 hours, and get rid of heavy metals, which is important for many cancer patients and most patients with brain disorders. This also means that cancer patients with brain fog may benefit from this treatment, depending on what is causing the brain fog. (3)"

 
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I just don't want people coming on the ray peat forum and thinking that Peat himself approves of using these supplements. So as I said above, I'm not attacking anyone, but wanted to make it known to others that Peat does not recommend MSM. Also, just curious, where did he say he doesn't recommend it due to impurities or the way it's manufactured, rather than because the MSM itself is dangerous? I'd be interested in reading his reasoning if you have a quote or something from him. I thought he stated it could be dangerous or cause cancer, but cannot find where I read that.

Where did you get someone said Peat recommends it? Five years ago, reading Peat's articles and listening to his intervies, was the first time I heard him say anything about MSM. He couldn't comment much because he said he didn't know much about MSM, but that he would be concerned about purity. I don't know how old his interview was at that time, but since he has made rare comments about MSM compared to PUFA's, estrogens, chicken and pork, vitamin C and other suppliments. The only other thing I heard him say about it, was in an interview that a woman in San Diego who was taking LARGE amounts of it for many years went in the hospital with some trouble and exploded. He said he never heard of any other injuries from MSM. I gather he doesn't "recommended" it cause he has never really looked into it. I would have the same stance too about it as I do many things that I have not had an experience with. Again with anything you have to weigh the pain and the ailament with the risk. I certainly think MSM to ease pain is FAR BETTER than being on neverending pain pills, and with the chance of cure in the bet what do some people in misery have to lose? It is no worse than supplimenting vitamin C, which I know most people on this forum do. So let's talk about that as well, cause Ray Peat sure talks negatively a lot about vitamin C suppliments as well as others, and people turn a blind eye to it.
 

Kray

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Ray Peat does not recommend MSM for the same reason he does not recommend -vitamin suppliments, being unsure of it's purity, but that doesn't stop many Peater's from supplimenting vitamin C anyways. He does not recommend bacon either, but he eats it anyways for pleasure, refried in coconut oil. We have to weigh where we want to stray off the "Peat" path, for pleasure or to address a health problem. He doesn't recommend Brewer's yeast, but talks many times about how Brewer's yeast cured his father's diabetes. I took MSM for more than 15+ straight with only good to say about it. I haven't taken it for many years because my Costco brand was no longer available. It has gotten a girlftiend of mine and one of her girlfriends off pain medication and another elderly friend is grateful that it eased the arthritic pain that pain meds didn't,. It cured the arthritis in my three fingers permanently. Some people splurge on starches and pork, and I choose my splurge on things like MSM. I gain nothing from food splurges, but MSM has only served me well. The only way that a person can even possibly end up with cancer from MSM is using a cheap source that had toxins in whatever they were burning to make it aka wood, coconut shells etc...
Good points. btw- since you mention good brands, not sure if you still supplement MSM, but I recently came upon this brand. I know there are others out there, too.

Amazon product ASIN B00I08DMH2View: https://www.amazon.com/Gold-Standard-Organic-Sulfur-Crystals/dp/B00I08DMH2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2KO27H63VU1XX&keywords=gold+standard+organic+sulfur&qid=1651515018&sprefix=gold+standard+organic+sulfur%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRzU2SjlGNEoyWDMxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTcxMTA3NEZaSTlXSlNCN1BWJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwNDQwODcxR041VFBSSkRDN0hEJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
 
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