REVISITING FASTING

[Alex Jaramillo]

I did morning fasted exercise in my 40s which put me in my best shape. I stopped when I found Peat, though.

@sebastian_r I think the context matters most in this situation. It’s great if you’re super busy and can handle it. I personally don’t like eating much before noon besides coffee and fruit. Although I think from an unbiased point of view it may spike cortisol if done too often.

 

[olive]

In surprising reversal, scientists find a cellular process that stops cancer before it starts - Salk Institute for Biological Studies

In optimal health I believe fasting is a great tool to induce autophagy; reducing risk of cancer, diabetes, neurodegenerative diseases, etc.

Optimal health being;
Low PUFA, low adipose tissue, low cortisol, healthy liver, large glycogen stores in muscle and liver, efficient ATP, healthy mitochondria, etc.

I believe in the minimum effective dose principle and with fasting that seems to equate to 4-5 days every 3-4 months.

The following are good adjuncts during a fast;
Black coffee, lithium orotate, transdermal stearic acid, salt, mineral water, ocean swims/epsom baths, plenty of sunlight.

I believe, regardless of the benefits of autophagy, it’s just a good idea just to give your body a break from time to time. Constant feeding isn’t natural.

 

[Cirion]

In optimal health I believe fasting is a great tool to induce autophagy

Yeah I mean I could possibly get on board with this. But most of us aren't in optimal health sadly. I'm really not worried about it personally because it's more risky than its worth. But that's just my opinion. Because it can EASILY become a stressor. If I did try it, I'd monitor my temps and if I ever dropped below 98.6 I would shut it down immediately.

But if you're already low PUFA, low ammonia, low endotoxin etc etc I don't even see how it would benefit you?

 

[olive]

Yeah I mean I could possibly get on board with this. But most of us aren't in optimal health sadly. I'm really not worried about it personally because it's more risky than its worth. But that's just my opinion. Because it can EASILY become a stressor. If I did try it, I'd monitor my temps and if I ever dropped below 98.6 I would shut it down immediately.

But if you're already low PUFA, low ammonia, low endotoxin etc etc I don't even see how it would benefit you?

By inducing autophagy, the bodies self cleaning process. Recycling damaged cells to create new ones. Even the immune system is rebooted upon refeeding after a prolonged fast.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

In surprising reversal, scientists find a cellular process that stops cancer before it starts - Salk Institute for Biological Studies

In surprising reversal, scientists find a cellular process that stops cancer before it starts - Salk Institute for Biological Studies

That’s interesting. I read this yesterday.
https://www.statusplus.net/issm/saopaulo2014/presentations/083.pdf
Then I realized fasting might help boost 5AR type 1 because of the huge insulin spikes and reading the link below
Stimulatory effect of insulin on 5alpha-reductase type 1 (SRD5A1) expression through an Akt-dependent pathway in ovarian granulosa cells. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I've heard that theory about autophagy but not sure I'm sold. It happens just fine during sleep as long as sleep is restful, which it will be if metabolism is optimal. I don't personally see the need to "reboot" the immune system... I suppose that's just me though.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

In surprising reversal, scientists find a cellular process that stops cancer before it starts - Salk Institute for Biological Studies

In optimal health I believe fasting is a great tool to induce autophagy; reducing risk of cancer, diabetes, neurodegenerative diseases, etc.

Optimal health being;
Low PUFA, low adipose tissue, low cortisol, healthy liver, large glycogen stores in muscle and liver, efficient ATP, healthy mitochondria, etc.

I believe in the minimum effective dose principle and with fasting that seems to equate to 4-5 days every 3-4 months.

The following are good adjuncts during a fast;
Black coffee, lithium orotate, transdermal stearic acid, salt, mineral water, ocean swims/epsom baths, plenty of sunlight.

I believe, regardless of the benefits of autophagy, it’s just a good idea just to give your body a break from time to time. Constant feeding isn’t natural.

Have you used lithium orotate?

 

[olive]

Have you used lithium orotate?

It’s the type I use. 5mg with my morning coffee during periods of fasting.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm not going to belabor this as there are too many studies that state the plain facts.

Fasting causes a stress response starting with elevated cortisol. Free fatty acids are released. This is a toxic combination for people unless they have low PUFA and very high metabolism. Fasting lowers metabolism too.

Dr. Peat has said that when you wake up it's a good idea to rehydrate and lower cortisol by consuming orange juice. Cortisol is high when you wake up, and your blood is more sludgy. The same goes for protein. Missing meals increases the burden on the liver by lowering protein, and will lower metabolism.

For a healthy person, no big deal. For someone struggling with insulin resistance, chronically elevated stress hormones, fatty liver (as many of us are), it is a really terrible idea.

 

[Tom K]

Autophagic cell death restricts chromosomal instability during replicative crisis
Fasting increases autopohagy, treats as well as prevents cancer, restores insulin sensitivity, and is a part of the environmental influences from which we evolved.

 

[Luckytype]

Oddly, a couple times a month I unintentionally fast for 24hrs or so. I may only get some sugary stuff like a juice or a Pepsi, no solid food.

This goes against everything ive been working toward the past couple years but so far, I have had no negative effects and otherwise can maintain comfort, calmness and relative warmth during the time im not eating. In fact, I tend to feel considerably more present while not eating

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Oddly, a couple times a month I unintentionally fast for 24hrs or so. I may only get some sugary stuff like a juice or a Pepsi, no solid food.

This goes against everything ive been working toward the past couple years but so far, I have had no negative effects and otherwise can maintain comfort, calmness and relative warmth during the time im not eating. In fact, I tend to feel considerably more present while not eating

I might implement them once a week like @olive was suggesting.
You’re prolactin lowering thread was awesome by the way. It really shows how important vitamin D is for health.

 

[ddjd]

I wonder if taking low dose niacinamide and fasting at the same time could be a healthier way to fast?

 

[Collden]

Blake Horton seems like a good example of how to pull off IF successfully, no signs of hypothyroidism or poor hormone status there. I'd guess some of his keys to success are a very high carb intake without being overly restrictive with fats/proteins, as well as achieving a good balance between refined easily digestible foods and unrefined fruits and veggies for good fibers/vitamins while not going crazy on stuff like beans, nuts, oils and cruciferous/leafy veggies.

Blake Horton (@blake_201) • Instagram photos and videos

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

@Collden I could never eat that much haha but it works for him obviously

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

P

I wonder if taking low dose niacinamide and fasting at the same time could be a healthier way to fast?

Possibly, why niacinamide though?

 

[olive]

I wonder if taking low dose niacinamide and fasting at the same time could be a healthier way to fast?

Not a good idea. I’m a proponent of fasting but combining fasting with niacinamide will only lead to detriment. @tyw has explained why niacinamide needs fuel.

 

[berk]

I wonder if taking low dose niacinamide and fasting at the same time could be a healthier way to fast?

asprin is mutch better choice.
The best thing for reducing cortisol.
also its:
- decrease inflammation
- increases insulin sensitivity
- increase testosterone
- increase metabolism.
- increase libido
- decreases the production of estrogen
IF + Asprin = WIN

Its also great experiment to check if you are running on cortisol or not.
If you run on cortisol, asprin might make you sleepy. (because its lowers cortisol)
If not, then your fine.

 

[milkboi]

It’s the type I use. 5mg with my morning coffee during periods of fasting.

What do you use it for in the context of fasting?

 

[revenant]

I did intermittent fasting (IF 24/24) for over a year in my late 20's because at the time the longevity community was pretty convinced that it mimicked true calorie restriction (CR) (probably through autophagy) and would increase lifespan.

I was very lean back then, but thinking back on it now I would wager I was running on stress hormones most of the time. It eventually turned out that IF was not the same as CR and did not result in lifespan extension in animals, so I quit. I still tried to limit my eating window because of the (supposed) increased autophagy, but after reading Peat's and Giorgi's writings it seems that there's not much benefit to it -- through fasting at least, since it increases only moderately, and then goes back *below* baseline after you start eating again. So all in all it might not improve things much. And then there's the stress part to deal with.

And eventually, of course, all the IF/CR + low-carb stuff stopped working some years after I hit 30, and suddenly I was no longer lean.