REVISITING FASTING

[berk]

how do you guys "know" if you running on cortisol or not?

 

[revenant]

how do you guys "know" if you running on cortisol or not?

I don't, but if what Ray writes is true and if after 24 hours of not eating anything you suddenly get a spike in the energy, it makes sense. Very similar to the feeling I get when I drink coffee on an empty stomach (which I also loved to do).

 

[berk]

I don't, but if what Ray writes is true and if after 24 hours of not eating anything you suddenly get a spike in the energy.

thats not making sense i think
For example: when you have very low bloodsugar, you have high cortisol but you feeling crap.

 

[ddjd]

how about taking taurine during a fasted state?

 

[Such_Umami]

As an experienced faster, I thought I'd add my 2cents:

My background is that I've undergone many waterfasts with two 28 day waterfasts, many 10+ day and countless others. With dry fasting, I have done at least 3 five day dry fasts and countless lesser ones. Only recently, I kicked off the new year with a four day dry fast with a day of salt water on either side. I have had both good and bad experiences in fasting and I hope I will do justice in expressing my honest opinion that has truth in reality.

First I'll detail my positive experiences and then my negative ones and my best advice to anyone that is interested in it:

I had a chronic shoulder injury for over a year which hurt so much that I couldn't even sit at a computer desk. It was getting to the point where I didn't know what to do as it made it extremely difficult to work or do anything upright. I decided to do a water-fast and after 28 days it had not only gotten better but it's been about 10 years since I did it and I've not even felt it slightly during that time. It is 100% better. When I ended that particular fast I also expelled what looked like clay which was being deposited into my intestines during the fast which was so compact that it was literally a perfect mould of my intestines all the way from my small intestines to my large intestines. I could literally hear it cracking before it all came out in multiple pieces (very uncomfortable). After this happened, I went to bed and I tripped out harder than when I did LSD. I saw all kinds of things from astrological symbolism to icons of attainment and success.

During my first 10 day waterfast, I noticed a piece of plaque dislodged and came out of my tooth. To follow up from this, I went to the dentist about a year and a half ago and I had a cavity, I saw that in the middle of one of my bottom left molar was a very large piece of plaque, my dental hygienist pointed it out to me and didn't touch it (this was my last appointment because they wanted to drill it out and cap it). This prompted me to go on a round of dry fasts and I think it was yesterday that I happened to look at it again and all the plaque had gone.

I have only been peating for about 6 months, before that I was switching between a high pufa vegan diet and a high pufa standard american diet. However after these dry fasts I started implementing peats work and I gained a lot of muscle. I was pretty athletic before, I play basketball as much as possible and I am one of the fastest players on the court. However after building back using peats philosphy I put on muscle to the point that I am regularly getting comments on it despite not looking for hypertrophy gains (speed, power, mobility I am looking for which also have improved). I am 36 now and I find peoples honest reaction to my age quite telling, I've even been accused of lying about my age (making it higher), I don't know why I'd do that but it happened. I'm not dark skinned or someone that typically looks young for their age, I am fair skinned/fair haired.

As for the drawbacks. I believe that last year I took the dry fasting a little too far and I created a lot of bad karma for me because of the stress responses interaction with my mind. This has prompted me to make sure that between every fast that I properly recover from it and improve before undergoing another one. Another bad thing that happened after my first 28 day fast was that I lost all my jumping ability which is very bad for basketball, I recovered it back quite quickly with some work but it scared me a bit. I'd say that most of my other bad experiences (other than it being a quite stressful thing to undergo) was when I reintroduced food. I am not very good at breaking fasts and this means that it can take about a week before I notice the benefits, during this time I feel pretty shitty.

I do agree with Peat that it is a stressor to the body. But so is breathing. I don't believe the body can expel all the toxins quickly enough before it's next meal. This is where I believe a well conducted fast should be used. In addition to this, I believe the body produces more intricate and creative products from the oxidation of fatty acids and proteins. Just like exercise, fasting has a lot of documented benefits to this and the downsides to it are cortisol responses. You should take an objective look at the pro's and con's and perhaps conduct your own experiments to your conclusion. I would love to see an experiement that measures peoples overall cortisol for 6 months and have one group with intelligent fasts in there and one group without. My hypothesis would be that the fasting group would experience an overall lower level of cortisol over that period of time as long as both sides are given a good anabolic diet of low pufas and thyroid friendly foods.

 

[revenant]

thats not making sense i think
For example: when you have very low bloodsugar, you have high cortisol but you feeling crap.

When people feel crappy and hungry it's usually something else than "low blood sugar", as AFAIK blood sugar is fairly tightly regulated. Truly low blood sugar would send you into a hospital.

I don't know if you've ever tried fasting, but at the ~20 hour mark there is brain fog and fatigue, which around the ~24 hour mark turns into positive energy and a sense of euphoria. I'm not entirely sure what happens inside the body at that point but probably adrenaline and noradrenaline could bring forth those effects.

 

[opethfeldt]

Fasting was great for fat loss but was terrible for my overall health. I pretty much always felt stressed. It was so bad, I forgot what it felt like to be calm until I found this forum and changed my lifestyle. I spent so long trying to band aid the stress from the fasting while failing to realize the issue was the fasting itself. The whole time I did IF, I looked good but felt bad. Did no favors for my social status either. All of the people I had as friends at the time dominated me and only kept me around to feel better about themselves. It wasn't until later that I realized the connection between high cortisol and social submission. I think fasting can work for some, or be implemented a few times a week to get the fat loss, androgen receptor and autophagy benefits without the chronic cortisol increase.

 

[milkboi]

I pretty much always felt stressed. It was so bad, I forgot what it felt like to be calm until I found this forum and changed my lifestyle.

Very relatable

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Light dialey Fasting is Fine and Natural. First meal being around 11-12 is ideal. You can never permanetly suppress FFA, they will be burned off.

People woke when the sun rose and began looking for honey, nuts, tubers, and killing small game. Only in recent histrory did people "Break-fast" With some agricultural product or domesticated animals like wheat bread and butter/cream.

Fat mobilization, insulin and adrenaline sensitivity.

Chugging OJ and milk upon waking is not natural and never has been. Humans didnt have sugar water and cows ***s next to them


I would love to fast every day. Can't have to be work ready by 9 which requires coffee and theobromine. Both of which require a solid meal.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

In a perfect work free world, we could all sleep when it got dark and wake when ready, eat when ready, and be productive when ready. Modern society denies us those luxarys. We wake when we have to, eat when we can, and use stimulants to mask fatigue.

 

[Zigzag]

I'm actually revisiting fasting... Yohimbine+caffeine and I feel like I can move walls. Shame it's all adrenaline and stress.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I'm actually revisiting fasting... Yohimbine+caffeine and I feel like I can move walls. Shame it's all adrenaline and stress.

Fasting without caffeine is fine and natural.

Its becomes a stressful event with coffee.

To bad it takes 2+hrs for natural adrenaline to rise to a functionable level without the use of agonist like coffee.

 

[Zigzag]

I just hope I don't do too much damage with all those FFAs.

 

[TheBeard]

Light dialey Fasting is Fine and Natural. First meal being around 11-12 is ideal. You can never permanetly suppress FFA, they will be burned off.

People woke when the sun rose and began looking for honey, nuts, tubers, and killing small game. Only in recent histrory did people "Break-fast" With some agricultural product or domesticated animals like wheat bread and butter/cream.

Fat mobilization, insulin and adrenaline sensitivity.

Chugging OJ and milk upon waking is not natural and never has been. Humans didnt have sugar water and cows ***s next to them


I would love to fast every day. Can't have to be work ready by 9 which requires coffee and theobromine. Both of which require a solid meal.

Never had so much energy at work than when fasting until noon.
The fasting cortisol rush is a lot more stimulating to my mind than coffee

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Never had so much energy at work than when fasting until noon.
The fasting cortisol rush is a lot more stimulating to my mind than coffee

Yes it is clear headed ,endotoxin and gut serotonin free state with natural adrenaline. It’s not cortisol so much as adrenaline liberating some liver glycogen and some fatty acids.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Fasting was great for fat loss but was terrible for my overall health. I pretty much always felt stressed. It was so bad, I forgot what it felt like to be calm until I found this forum and changed my lifestyle. I spent so long trying to band aid the stress from the fasting while failing to realize the issue was the fasting itself. The whole time I did IF, I looked good but felt bad. Did no favors for my social status either. All of the people I had as friends at the time dominated me and only kept me around to feel better about themselves. It wasn't until later that I realized the connection between high cortisol and social submission. I think fasting can work for some, or be implemented a few times a week to get the fat loss, androgen receptor and autophagy benefits without the chronic cortisol increase.

I experienced many of the same things. It is amazing for shedding fat though I had an eight pack at the time.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

I just hope I don't do too much damage with all those FFAs.

If you believe your tissue stores are full of PUFA then either, do not fast until you have been low PUFA for 4+ years, or make sure you are getting plenty of Vitamin E when you do fast.

If you have little to no stored PUFA you should be able to fast with minimal downsides from the liberated Fatty Acids. If you are burning Saturated fat the metabolic detriments should be near neutral.

 

[Zigzag]

If you believe your tissue stores are full of PUFA then either, do not fast until you have been low PUFA for 4+ years, or make sure you are getting plenty of Vitamin E when you do fast.

If you have little to no stored PUFA you should be able to fast with minimal downsides from the liberated Fatty Acids. If you are burning Saturated fat the metabolic detriments should be near neutral.

I'm definitely not PUFA depleted. What would you say is the best way to take vit E when I do 20/4 or 22/2 fasts? Would taking it during the eating window be enough to counter all those toxic FFAs that are released during the fasting time?

 

[sladerunner69]

That’s interesting. I read this yesterday.
https://www.statusplus.net/issm/saopaulo2014/presentations/083.pdf
Then I realized fasting might help boost 5AR type 1 because of the huge insulin spikes and reading the link below
Stimulatory effect of insulin on 5alpha-reductase type 1 (SRD5A1) expression through an Akt-dependent pathway in ovarian granulosa cells. - PubMed - NCBI

This is very interesting to me. I ahve pfs and have noticed that almost all of the pfs guys get markedly better after fasting.

 

[Such_Umami]

To the people that think the pufas will make fasting not viable;

Are you not going to have to deal with them regardless when you deplete them the long way?