REVISITING FASTING

[Alex Jaramillo]

Pituitary-testicular axis in obese men during short-term fasting. - PubMed - NCBI

Fasting enhances growth hormone secretion and amplifies the complex rhythms of growth hormone secretion in man.

I did intermittent fasting for a year and I know this is pretty anti peat but I did notice a leaner more masculine face, ripped abs and morning woods more often.

Perhaps it does work provided you eat properly during you “window” and eat enough.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Fasting creates free fatty acids and if you have a lot of Pufas in your body it is very toxic.

 

[sebastian_r]

Got phenomenal results with 24-48h fasts once per week.
Fat just melting of my body when I do this.
No cravings during the fast, no problems with body temperature.
Daily intermittent fasting I don't enjoy all too much, first I'm hungry then I'm tired after eating big meals to get the necessary calories in.

 

[ecstatichamster]

well how old are you. What is your metabolism.

Many studies show this increases chronic cortisol levels, raises free fatty acids, increases insulin resistance and contributes to death of pancreatic beta cells due to releasing too many PUFA FFAs.

FWIW, I did this for several years. Had no positive changes whatsoever. None. No better body weight, no fat loss, nothing good. I was about 40 at the time and was not overweight more than 10 - 15 pounds and had no chronic health issues.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Got phenomenal results with 24-48h fasts once per week.
Fat just melting of my body when I do this.
No cravings during the fast, no problems with body temperature.
Daily intermittent fasting I don't enjoy all too much, first I'm hungry then I'm tired after eating big meals to get the necessary calories in.

I’ve done both and I don’t mind either really.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

well how old are you. What is your metabolism.

Many studies show this increases chronic cortisol levels, raises free fatty acids, increases insulin resistance and contributes to death of pancreatic beta cells due to releasing too many PUFA FFAs.

FWIW, I did this for several years. Had no positive changes whatsoever. None. No better body weight, no fat loss, nothing good. I was about 40 at the time and was not overweight more than 10 - 15 pounds and had no chronic health issues.

I’m 22. What is the mechanism behind the FFA release though?

 

[Jon]

I'm with @ecstatichamster

@Alex Jaramillo fasting quite possibly a reset tool for various liver and immune issues, but for the most part it's a pretty caustic process on you body.

Ever notice at the 12hr fast mark you lose your appetite? That's your cortisol up regulating and subsequently sending you into ketosis. Keep that sort of regiment up and you'll develop peripheral insulin resistacne.

3-4 balanced meals a day is best for blood sugar maintenance and insulin response to a meal (in that insulin is more effective per mg of blood glucose at keeping a lower serum level):
https://clinicalnutritionespen.com/article/S1751-4991(10)00054-5/pdf

"Our primary finding is that consumption of 6 frequent meals in 12 h resulted in higher blood glucose levels over the course of the day than the consumption of 3 meals, although there was no difference in the insulin response between these two conditions. During frequent meal conditions (2 h AUC), an attenu- ated insulin response was noted with subsequent meal consump- tion in the middle of the day (1100 h and 1300 h), despite the fact that glucose AUC did not change significantly. Similar to previous reports a higher protein intake with frequent meal consumption decreases both the insulin and glucose response as compared to a meal higher in CHO.
There has been considerable promotion both by the medical community and the lay press to consume 6 meals per day for weight loss or for glycemic control but our data indicate that the glucose AUC is w30% higher over the course of the day with a frequent high carbohydrate feeding than when consuming 3 meals per day."

If you notice more frequent morning erections with IF then it may be that acutely you become more insulin sensitive in the beginning and don't impede nocturnal test release by having too much insulin in your serum. Do you count your calories?

 

[Cirion]

I’m 22. What is the mechanism behind the FFA release though?

This is why it works for you. At age 22 literally everything works. At age 22 I ate high PUFA, didn't sleep more than 6 hrs a day, mixed PUFA's with sugar regularly (randle cycle anyone?), insane caffeine intake (cortisol increases anyone?) and never got fat though I did have severe mental problems.

Come back to us in a decade and then report back. Once you hit age 30+ literally everything is a stressor. As another aside, I always get frustrated when its a 20 something that preaches calorie counting. That also stops working once you hit 30.

*edit* realized my post may have come across rather condescending. Not really my intent, sorry

 

[Peat Tong]

I did morning fasted exercise in my 40s which put me in my best shape. I stopped when I found Peat, though.

 

[Cirion]

I did morning fasted exercise in my 40s which put me in my best shape. I stopped when I found Peat, though.

Being in good shape definitely =/= being healthy. I have had stints of being in great shape too. Nearly all of the time I was in good shape I was NOT healthy though.

 

[Peat Tong]

felt bad?

 

[Jon]

I should also add this:

Potential Benefits and Harms of Intermittent Energy Restriction and Intermittent Fasting Amongst Obese, Overweight and Normal Weight Subjects—A Narrative Review of Human and Animal Evidence

"in non-obese subjects have been associated with modest increases in hepatic and intramyocellular triglyceride content which are not seen after the normal 12 h overnight fast. Specifically a single spell of fasting of between 24–48 h leads to modest increases in intramyocellular triglycerides (2.4%–3.6%) but not hepatic fat in non-obese premenopausal women, mainly in the second 24 h period of fasting [45], whilst men have modest increases in hepatic fat (0.42%–0.74%) within the first 24 h of fasting, but do not accumulate intramyocellular triglycerides [45,46]. The clinical significance of the modest changes in hepatic triglycerides in men [46], and intramyocellular triglycerides in women [45] in these short term studies is not known. Some [45,47] but not all [48] studies have associated increased intramyocellular triglycerides with reduced insulin sensitivity upon refeeding amongst women. Possible mechanisms for increased hepatic fat with fasting in men include reduced apolipoprotein B-100 production and hepatic lipid export, and/or impaired mitochondrial function and fat oxidation resulting from increased oxidative stress, with diversion of fatty acids for esterification [49]. The effects of repeated IER each week on hepatic and intramyocellular triglyceride stores and whole body insulin sensitivity needs to be assessed in longer term studies and also amongst people who are overweight or obese."

 

[Cirion]

felt bad?

Yeah that's putting it mildly, lol. Severe anxiety, depression, social isolation, overthinking, insomnia, poor sleep, bad energy levels, very bad with girls just to name a few symptoms.

I think the only people for whom intermittent fasting MAY work for is people who are already healthy. That's because Peat has acknowledged that healthy people may be able to store glucose for 12-16 hr. If that's the case, this is another example of "health permits intermittent fasting" and not "intermittent fasting causes health".

I am starting to see this trend more and more. If someone healthy is doing something, it must mean that habit is healthy. A lot of times, not really. Most of the time, its the health that permits said activity, not the other way around.

Other examples:

- Being social improves health / hormone levels. Usually only true if you're already healthy. When I'm not well it just makes me more tired. Socialization requires lots of mental energy for me.
- Intermittent fasting (as just discussed).
- Exercising. Should not be attempted if health is compromised. May provide benefit after one is somewhat healthy.
- Calorie deficit. May be helpful only after one is healthy. And even then a forced calorie deficit is NEVER a good idea, healthy or not. A natural calorie deficit should be used (Following appetite). The body will only give you a natural calorie deficit when you're healthy.

 

[Jon]

Yeah that's putting it mildly, lol. Severe anxiety, depression, social isolation, overthinking, insomnia, poor sleep, bad energy levels, very bad with girls just to name a few symptoms.

I think the only people for whom intermittent fasting MAY work for is people who are already healthy. That's because Peat has acknowledged that healthy people may be able to store glucose for 12-16 hr. If that's the case, this is another example of "health permits intermittent fasting" and not "intermittent fasting causes health".

I am starting to see this trend more and more. If someone healthy is doing something, it must mean that habit is healthy. A lot of times, not really. Most of the time, its the health that permits said activity, not the other way around.

I would agree with this. A prime example is using tobacco, as people with metabolic predispositions to illness (pre diabetes for instance) with exacerbate their issues but healthy people may actually increase in health probably because of their efficient conversion of nicotine to B3.

 

[Cirion]

I would agree with this. A prime example is using tobacco, as people with metabolic predispositions to illness (pre diabetes for instance) with exacerbate their issues but healthy people may actually increase in health probably because of their efficient conversion of nicotine to B3.

It's really interesting to see that everything is not so black and white. With diet, we see a similar thing. What's toxic to one person may be health promoting to someone else.

Example: Tryptophan. IN most metabolically compromised individuals, tryptophan converts excessively to serotonin (bad) hence why RP often speaks out against it.

But in metabolically robust individuals it converts to niacin which is actually a benefit.

RP says something along the lines of "in the absence of a good metabolism, anything can be dangerous". As I'm going along my journey to good health I realize just how true this is. We have to step around so many landmines along the way since so few things are truly health promoting it seems, at least when you don't have the fortune of good health.

 

[sunraiser]

think the only people for whom intermittent fasting MAY work for is people who are already healthy. That's because Peat has acknowledged that healthy people may be able to store glucose for 12-16 hr. If that's the case, this is another example of "health permits intermittent fasting" and not "intermittent fasting causes health".

I notice when my metabolism is healthier I naturally fast longer between dinner and breakfast.

Intermittent fasting is probably going to hugely ease the burden on your liver and allow for some perceived benefit in the short to medium term, but it'll eventually tax your adrenals.

It could be used as a "hack" if the wellbeing benefits allowed you to move towards a lifestyle shift in the short term (like changing jobs or spending a few months out in the sun / on your feet), but eventually I'd say it's wise to listen to your body and go back to whatever your current metabolic equilibrium dictates.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Dr. Peat has said that fasting probably works by lowering endotoxins, and in this context there are much better ways of lowering endotoxins than fasting.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Yeah that's putting it mildly, lol. Severe anxiety, depression, social isolation, overthinking, insomnia, poor sleep, bad energy levels, very bad with girls just to name a few symptoms.

I think the only people for whom intermittent fasting MAY work for is people who are already healthy. That's because Peat has acknowledged that healthy people may be able to store glucose for 12-16 hr. If that's the case, this is another example of "health permits intermittent fasting" and not "intermittent fasting causes health".

I am starting to see this trend more and more. If someone healthy is doing something, it must mean that habit is healthy. A lot of times, not really. Most of the time, its the health that permits said activity, not the other way around.

Other examples:

- Being social improves health / hormone levels. Usually only true if you're already healthy. When I'm not well it just makes me more tired. Socialization requires lots of mental energy for me.
- Intermittent fasting (as just discussed).
- Exercising. Should not be attempted if health is compromised. May provide benefit after one is somewhat healthy.
- Calorie deficit. May be helpful only after one is healthy. And even then a forced calorie deficit is NEVER a good idea, healthy or not. A natural calorie deficit should be used (Following appetite). The body will only give you a natural calorie deficit when you're healthy.

Yeah I agree with that. I tried it today for the first time in a while and realized it’s not sustainable long term and I’d basically just be running on cortisol.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Dr. Peat has said that fasting probably works by lowering endotoxins, and in this context there are much better ways of lowering endotoxins than fasting.

True. I think why it worked so well for me in the past is because I ate very little PUFA and generally better food. I would think well I can’t eat until set time tomorrow so I better get the most nutritious food possible.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

I would agree with this. A prime example is using tobacco, as people with metabolic predispositions to illness (pre diabetes for instance) with exacerbate their issues but healthy people may actually increase in health probably because of their efficient conversion of nicotine to B3.

I do enjoy a cigar every month or two mostly because of the solitude aspect. Very rarely in modern society do people sit and think without frantically checking emails/YouTube/texts/calls/IG/Snapchat you name it. One of the most CRUCIAL things Peat preaches is you’re environment. This is the most over looked part of heath.