Red Light Therapy, Lights, Supplemental Lighting

[Steveig84]

Hi Steveig84,

We cant see what wavelengths the machine operates at so cant really say. From what I have heard some commercial machines don't actually emit much of the actual light we are after for the therapeutic effect: 600-850nm. Many of them do but unless you can get the exact nm range of the unit its hard to tell unless you have a spectroscope handy with a built in wavelength scale. You can actually pick them up for about £40 and they are easy to use.

Thanks for the response according to what i can find on the site it opperates between 590-850nm so im guessing it would be worth a try as i can use it for free! ;-)

 

[Lucy]

I have a halogen reflector 2x500W at home but I'm not sure about using it after reading this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829662/
or is the transparent cover blocking UV light?

[mod]Admin edit fixed link[/mod]

 

[kiran]

link is broken. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829662/

 

[kettlebell]

kettlebell - Let me know if that light is any good. Do you have the 110v site transformer that apparently is required?
Thanks.

Hi Chris,

Sorry, Pointed to the site one. I have the 240v normal plug lamps. Work a treat!

http://www.wickes.co.uk/400w-portable-w ... vt/702859/ This works. 400w is plenty especially when you have two of them on you. (Front and back) Any diy shop sells them. Screwfix is another shop where they stock them.

 

[charlie]

I have a halogen reflector 2x500W at home but I'm not sure about using it after reading this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829662/
or is the transparent cover blocking UV light?

[mod]Admin edit fixed link[/mod]

 

[kettlebell]

I have a halogen reflector 2x500W at home but I'm not sure about using it after reading this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829662/
or is the transparent cover blocking UV light?

[mod]Admin edit fixed link[/mod]

If you look back at the black body radiation charts a halogen lamp puts out a significantly less amount of UV radiation than the sun therefore I don't see a problem.

Also these are quoted from that study:

At a 1 cm distance from the bulb, the UVA and UVB output mirrors that of the sun, while the UVC output far exceeds that of the sun [19]. Several studies have demonstrated that this has serious biological consequences, both from a molecular and clinical perspective.

1cm?! That would burn you instantly. I don't think anyone here would be that silly. As I said above - The UV radiation is significantly less than the sun at a reasonable distance, a distance that doesn't cause uncomfortable skin warming (For me thats at least 50-60cm+)

Luckily, the genotoxic, clastogenic, and carcinogenic effects of halogen lamps can be prevented entirely if the bulb is shielded with a silica glass cover [20, 21, 25, 27]. This discovery prompted the scientific community to demand compulsory shielding of all manufactured halogen bulbs [25]. Now, most halogen bulbs are covered with glass or “doped” with a special coating that filters out UV. However, these treated bulbs still emit UVA2, UVB, and UVC, though significantly less than the unshielded bulb

For a normal user a halogen lamp is just fine

 

[narouz]

You know, I went by Lowe's yesterday
and almost bought the same halogen light you did, Charlie:
the 500watter for about $13.

I thought about it and thought about it
and finally put it back.
You know why:
I just couldn't picture myself sitting for hours
(or maybe even half an hour )
under such a light.

Maybe I've got it wrong,
but--even though those halogens would seem to put out a great spectrum of red light--
don't they seem really Bright and White and kinduv Cold/Stark...?

I was thinking: it needs some kind of a filter to make it bearable.
I guess it must be said that I've always been very sensitive to lighting.
I hate any kind of overhead lighting,
and really hate fluorescents.
I am a Light Whim, I know....

I was thinking:
what if I mounted a piece of red glass in front of the bulb (of the $13 halogen)?
Would red glass accomplish the same thing as a red container of water (as per HeelSpurs)?
And, am I correct in my understanding of red-colored filters in general:
don't they block (or at least diminish) wavelengths other than red?
(If so, maybe that is a negative, because a large portion of 600-820nm
is not "red"--it is Near Infrared.)

 

[kettlebell]

Hi Narouz,

That is correct. A red filter will let most of the red light spectrum through give or take and will block a lot of the other spectrums. Its all down to vibration

My 500W Halogen lamp is very bright but still seems more orangey coloured than white. If you shine it on your back and have something less bright on you front that might work.

 

[charlie]

Yes it definitely seems very orange. I have my halogen light directly behind me probably about 8 feet back. Oh, and the toxic smells that were coming off of it are almost gone now. Just a slight smell but not bad and getting better.

 

[kettlebell]

Excellent! Glad to hear it Charlie!

I managed to find LED 650nm arrays for sale in the UK. Thanks for your PM by the way, I didn't thank you.

I put the LED array face down on my abdomen and felt very relaxed in about 10-15 minutes, warm etc. I fell asleep and woke up 20 minutes later and was pleased to find the leds were not hot at all, just mildly warm.

Im confident I will be able to sleep under covers with it on BUT will test it out for short periods to see if there is any issue with temperature. If all goes well I will sleep with it on for the first hour or two of sleep.

Really pleased with it!

You can get them from here in the uk:

http://www.fastlight.co.uk/acatalog/LED ... oards.html

They appear on ebay UK too.

Let the UK rush begin.

 

[charlie]

You are welcome.

Ok, so now I really want one of those LED arrays. Some really great feedback with them. I think any minute I might pull the trigger and order one up. Just don't know if I can pull myself together to build one yet.

 

[narouz]

You are welcome.

Ok, so now I really want one of those LED arrays. Some really great feedback with them. I think any minute I might pull the trigger and order one up. Just don't know if I can pull myself together to build one yet.

Charlie, I got the LED array that Clint put you onto.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MY ... =rapefo-20

As it turns out, it does NOT need a power adapter.
Plugs right into the wall.

I tried it last night.
It is surprisingly bright, and mesmerizingly red. :)
If you hold your hand right on you can feel just a very tiny bit of heat,
but the interesting thing is the heat does not seem to come from the surface
of each of the many baby LED bulbs--
it just seems to be...well...ambient, hovering around the bulbs.
Another way to put it is,
when you put your hand directly on the bulbs, they do not feel hot at all.

I laid it on my abdomen as per Clint for about 20 minutes last night after Romney gave his concession.
It felt slight good in some vague way,
and only everso slightly warm.

I did sleep very well and very long, after.

I was thinking I might put it on my thyroid area.
And on my lower left back area which gets chronically sore.
Heck, I could put it over my privates and perhaps experience some "Sexual Healing."
Opportunities are endless....

 

[Ray-Z]

You are welcome.

Ok, so now I really want one of those LED arrays. Some really great feedback with them. I think any minute I might pull the trigger and order one up. Just don't know if I can pull myself together to build one yet.

Charlie, I got the LED array that Clint put you onto.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MY ... =rapefo-20

Link appears to be broken.

 

[narouz]

Yes it definitely seems very orange. I have my halogen light directly behind me probably about 8 feet back. Oh, and the toxic smells that were coming off of it are almost gone now. Just a slight smell but not bad and getting better.

Well, I guess I'll buy one or two of the halogens like you have and give them a try.
It is not the putative health benefits that have held me back,
but rather the potential "unpleasantness"
of the way I imagine those lights.

If I find the halogen light to be too glaring/assaultive/unpleasant,
I'll rig up a reddish filter.
I don't see why a small square of red glass wouldn't work.
Beyond the pleasantness change I'd hope it would achieve
it would also block the perhaps harmful blue and ultraviolet waves.

Another angle on the halogens,
another reason I've held off:
Peat has advised in private consultation with someone
that the red light (he doesn't use halogens, but from his incandescent heat lamps)
should optimally be shone on the abdomen and head.

By "head" I've been thinking "face,"
so I was picturing having to shine the halogens at least partly on my face.
So I see why Kettlebell's arrangement--
being irradiated from behind (not face, but, I guess, "head")--
would be far less unpleasant.

I spend a lot of time at my desk,
so one idea I had was positioning a light under my desk
and irradiating my legs and abdomen
(and the beauty thing here would be that that light would be blocked from my face).

So I'm starting to get a handle on how to implement the red light therapy to the skin/body.
We still have not had much discussion on the implementation of light therapy to the eyes/retina.
Apparently Peat thinks that is a good idea too,
because (somewhere) he has advised people in consultation
about looking into lights for a few seconds.
Now here, just to be clear, Peat was NOT talking about halogens.
He was probably talking about regular incandescents--another murky Peat area.
Of course this is all linked to the supposed benefits from bright lights to the eyes as in SAD light therapy,
but there, as I dimly understand it, they emphasize Bright light moreso than Red light.
In fact, I think they prefer the blue spectrum.
There are those 10,000 lumen units that sit on your desk for you to look into.
Peatarian (where is she these days?) said she has one.
I think those are Not red spectrum....

 

[narouz]

You are welcome.

Ok, so now I really want one of those LED arrays. Some really great feedback with them. I think any minute I might pull the trigger and order one up. Just don't know if I can pull myself together to build one yet.

Charlie, I got the LED array that Clint put you onto.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008A6 ... =rapefo-20

Link appears to be broken.

See if this one works, Ray-Z:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MY ... =rapefo-20

 

[charlie]

Charlie, I got the LED array that Clint put you onto.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MY ... =rapefo-20

As it turns out, it does NOT need a power adapter.
Plugs right into the wall.

I tried it last night.
It is surprisingly bright, and mesmerizingly red. :)
If you hold your hand right on you can feel just a very tiny bit of heat,
but the interesting thing is the heat does not seem to come from the surface
of each of the many baby LED bulbs--
it just seems to be...well...ambient, hovering around the bulbs.
Another way to put it is,
when you put your hand directly on the bulbs, they do not feel hot at all.

I laid it on my abdomen as per Clint for about 20 minutes last night after Romney gave his concession.
It felt slight good in some vague way,
and only everso slightly warm.

I did sleep very well and very long, after.

I was thinking I might put it on my thyroid area.
And on my lower left back area which gets chronically.
Heck, I could put it over my privates and perhaps experience some "Sexual Healing."
Opportunities are endless....

Those LED's have been on the supplement list for a couple months now. When they ran out of the 12 volt ones it looks like they switched over to the 110 volt ones. I just checked and they are still out of the 12 volt.

Anyways, way cool, narouz! Run some more tests and report back! I am thinking I am going to go ahead and build one. Now need to figure out if I am going to include the 850nm infrared LED light Scott over at heelspurs does. I figure I am gonna start out with a 200 LED array and go from there.

Sexual healing. Hitting the red light district I see.

Halogen light there is no way you will put it under your desk unless your desk is 8 feet long. I have to keep my halogen way behind me, I would say 8 feet.

 

[kettlebell]

I was thinking I might put it on my thyroid area.
And on my lower left back area which gets chronically.
Heck, I could put it over my privates and perhaps experience some "Sexual Healing."
Opportunities are endless....

Haha,

I had mine shining on the top of my head earlier. Im hoping I will wake up in the morning with hair as thick as.................err, someone with thick hair. I tried to think of an example for comedy value but failed, hey ho.

 

[narouz]

D. Roddy advised this in a recent post:

Go outside or invest in some infrared lights - Light has major impact on our hormones and the energy producing ability of the cell. Getting as much sun as possible, or investing in a few red spectrum lights to hang over an area you chill in is probably a good idea.

http://www.dannyroddy.com/your-gut-from-hell-part-ii-a-ray-peat-inspired-digestive-primer

We see how widespread this notion is that Peat recommends "infrared light."
It is not a crazy idea,
because the bulb many fix on as The Peat Bulb
is indeed strongly infrared (and not a whole lot of just plain Red).

I wonder why Dr. Peat doesn't just say: we need Infrared light therapy?
I've only heard him say that we should get Red light therapy.
Source of a lot of reasonable confusion.

 

[charlie]

Little reminder hoping to clear up your confusion, narouz!

I think the slightly shorter wavelengths are the most beneficial, from about 600 nm to about 850 nm.

 

[narouz]

I asked Ray Peat again about the right bulbs, here is his answer:

"Plain incandescent bulbs are o.k., but the best kind are used by farmers for incubators, etc., and are designed as 130 volt bulbs, so when they operate on 120 volts they have a bias toward the longer wave red color, and they have an internal reflector. They are often called "infrared" or "heat lamps," but they have a clear glass front."

You still get the normal bulbs on Ebay and some companies are working on re-introducing them as 'heat bulbs'.

Returning to this great bit of reporting from peatarian,
there are a few things I wanted to interrogate more closely.

"...when they operate on 120 volts they have a bias toward the longer wave red color..."

So (apologizes again for being a very dim bulb on light science)...
the longer wavelengths of red...what would they be?
Would those be the wavelengths heading toward the orange direction of the spectrum?
Or would they be the wavelengths headed toward the Near Infrared?

Another element I've wondered about:

"...the best kind are used by farmers for incubators..."

So...incubator type bulbs used by farmers are called "brooder" bulbs or lamps.
Here is an example:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HJBDOQ/?tag=rapefo-20

It is called: "Westinghouse Lighting 3916 Heat And Brooder Bulb"
and it is described like this:

"WESTINGHOUSE R40 INFRARED HEAT LAMP CLEAR
250 watt
120 volts
Avg. life 5000 hours
Medium base"

Something else: the bulb many tap as The Peat Bulb...

http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/bulbri ... 0br40h.asp

...notice that its code designation is BR40.
I wonder if the "BR" stands for "BRooder"...?