Reasonable DIY Transdermal Testosterone

[brightside]

Where's Danny's reply? I can't see it on this thread.

I was talking about this thread

 

[brightside]

Cool Transdermal Testosterone

@Jessie shared a study with me about transdermal testosterone and menthol which I figured was similar in mechanism to other terpenes. Turns out, there are some really interesting properties of this specific combination which leads to a 2.8x increase in solubility of T, and up to 8x higher absorption rate.

This combination utilizes an interesting property of mixtures called eutectic mixture. Eutectic mixtures melt at lower temperatures than either of the components. For example, lead and tin melt at 327C and 231C respectively; however, when they are mixed in an exact ratio forming a eutectic mixture, they melt at a lower 183C. (There's also another property of eutectic mixtures which is instantaneous melting. If a non-eutectic mixture is heated, one of the components will start melting first, and once the temperature is raised high enough, the other component will melt too. However, a eutectic mixture will remain a solid right until it reaches the eutectic point, after which both of the components will melt together. In the case of the lead-tin mixture, the instantaneous melting is particularly advantageous because this is used as solder.) Anyways, testosterone forms a eutectic mixture with menthol. The melting point of this mixture is not much different from the melting point of menthol, but the melting point of testosterone drops a whopping 115C. The final melting point of the mixture is 40C. This is incredibly close to body temperature, but unfortunately still a little bit too high to readily melt on skin. Regardless, by dropping the melting point of T, better absorption can be achieved simply by the increased fluidity.

The lower melting point of T also results in a higher solubility. The study claims a 2.8x increase in solubility, and a whopping 8x increase in absorption. Logically, the higher solubility (and therefore concentration) results in higher absorption, but that only explains part of the increased absorption. The other part comes from menthol forming eutectic mixtures with skin lipids and ceramides. This results in much more liquified lipid matrix and therefore boosted skin penetration.

---

I'm somewhat confused about their numbers, so here's a direct quote.

These data show a flux of 530 µg/cm2‚h when testosterone was part of the eutectic mixture and its concentration in the donor was near saturation (71%). Parallel data obtained for testosterone alone show a flux of 67.8 µg/cm2‚h. These results indicate that the flux of testosterone as part of the eutectic mixture is about eight times higher than that of testosterone alone.

A flux of 530ug/cm2/h is very high, but if you look at their graph, it's lower by about half. I'm not sure what the difference is, perhaps the area was smaller than a square centimeter. Regardless, the data from the graph is not applicable to real world scenarios. Over the course of the entire test, the skin sample was constantly saturated in solution because they used a Franz cell. Not only do things dry out pretty quickly in the real world, but they also get rubbed off, which means you can only maintain a high flux for a short time. This doesn't mean that adding menthol is not worth it, but it just won't be that effective as the graph suggests.

Alright, now onto making a eutectic mixture. The ratio of a Menthol - Testosterone eutectic mixture is around 4:1. This is in moles, so the mg to mg ratio would be around 13mg:6mg - M:T. Using this ratio I made a eutectic mixture in ethanol and reached a concentration of around 187.5 mg/mL ( my numbers might be a bit off). Despite the large amount of menthol, because of the increased solubility, a high concentration can still be reached. In this specific combination, there is roughly 30-40% menthol. This causes strong cool feeling but it isn't painful. I can see how it can get annoying with use, but I personally don't mind it. I don't think that there's a need for such a large amount, and smaller quantities of Menthol can still be very helpful (as can other terpenes) + the smell is a very nice bonus :)

I suppose this mixture could be used as an alternative to DMSO. It's stronger than pure ethanol mixtures, and not toxic or painful like DMSO. I doubt that it would maintain good levels throughout the day, but that's true for pretty much all other solutions.

Actually, I reached 230mg/ml @ 40C, but I suppose an even higher concentration can be reached if the two ingredients would be just menthol and T (since the eutectic point is at 40C anyways). To do this, M + T + EtOH need to be mixed, and then the ethanol needs to be evaporated leaving behind a nice powder which is 31% T by weight ( weight % is not mg/mL, and that needs to be tested separately). If only the melting point would be another 5 degrees lower, you could theoretically put this powder on your skin (perhaps in a sheet), it would melt, and then absorb achieving a high flux on a tiny patch of skin.

Anyways, this still crashes on the skin once the ethanol evaporates. I think that there's point in reducing the concentration of T and replacing it with a fatty acid or propylene glycol to prevent crashing. Even with a lower concentration, more total hormone would be absorbed since it wouldn't be stuck on the surface of the skin. I have yet to try this kind of experiment and I probably won't, but I did already make an emulsion with the menthol that works fairly well.

To conclude, menthol is probably a very worthwhile additive that is safe, effective, and smells good. The major problem of menthol is the sensation that it creates which could get annoying or be a deal breaker for some.

Below is a graph from the study.

Study

 

[Pete Rey]

I've been using Basskiller's phlojel ultra recipe since 2016, before I knew who Ray was. This might not be recieved well since it's an old school bodybuilder formulation from the early 2000s (people have even run trenbolone cycles with it), and I'm still unsure of the degree of toxicity of some of the ingredients. But I've tried pretty much every transdermal and oral recipe on this forum since then, and subjectively nothing works as well -- with the caveat that I just go by feel these days and haven't tested levels in years. Scrotum is the most effective application site, and high blood pressure and/or acne is my cue that the dose is too high. I will say that although it was helpful from day 1 (initial tests showed extreme hypogonadism) it wasn't until I read Ray and added thyroid that it really came together for me, probably partly because I was still aromatizing a lot to estrogen even on low doses. In fact, if I could go back and talk to my 2016 self, I would tell myself to address the thyroid first before experimenting with T.

 

[brightside]

I've been using Basskiller's phlojel ultra recipe since 2016, before I knew who Ray was. This might not be recieved well since it's an old school bodybuilder formulation from the early 2000s (people have even run trenbolone cycles with it), and I'm still unsure of the degree of toxicity of some of the ingredients. But I've tried pretty much every transdermal and oral recipe on this forum since then, and subjectively nothing works as well -- with the caveat that I just go by feel these days and haven't tested levels in years. Scrotum is the most effective application site, and high blood pressure and/or acne is my cue that the dose is too high. I will say that although it was helpful from day 1 (initial tests showed extreme hypogonadism) it wasn't until I read Ray and added thyroid that it really came together for me, probably partly because I was still aromatizing a lot to estrogen even on low doses. In fact, if I could go back and talk to my 2016 self, I would tell myself to address the thyroid first before experimenting with T.

Thanks for sharing!

I honestly kind of forgot about it haha. Phlojel has been outperformed by Pentravan, but the former is easily attainable. I found the ingredient list here. Soy lecithin and Isopropyl palmitate are fairly harmless. Soy lecithin might not be ideal, but it's probably better than the ingredients of pentravan?(can't find them). The only concerning part is the Pluronic F127, which is made by ethoxylation and is often contaminated with dioxane. This is known to cause cancer. I think the amounts are probably insignificant, but still might be something to consider.

There's no doubt scrotal is highly effective, but my concern is the small amount of reservoir. Are you applying twice a day?

I would have never touched T if I could get thyroid to work but unfortunately, I'm pretty much completely resistant to it. At higher dosages my thyroid just feels inflamed and uncomfortable, at lower dosages, nothing. So far, T has been very helpful in alleviating the catabolism that I have been stuck in, but I'm still playing around with dosages, application methods, and combinations with other hormones.

Spoiler: About Pentravan

Study about Pentravan vs PLO
It's clearly more effective than the PLO gel in this study, but the n=3 isn't convincing and neither is the low flux..

When looking at this PDF about Pentravan, the results are quite disappointing. PDF

It's weird, 10% concentration has a flux of less than a microgram? That's pathetic. That also the only study that was published at the time. Porcine vaginal mucosa is not very relevant, and the only data showing a good flux is unpublished.. Suspicious..

 

[Pete Rey]

Thanks for sharing!

I honestly kind of forgot about it haha. Phlojel has been outperformed by Pentravan, but the former is easily attainable. I found the ingredient list here. Soy lecithin and Isopropyl palmitate are fairly harmless. Soy lecithin might not be ideal, but it's probably better than the ingredients of pentravan?(can't find them). The only concerning part is the Pluronic F127, which is made by ethoxylation and is often contaminated with dioxane. This is known to cause cancer. I think the amounts are probably insignificant, but still might be something to consider.

There's no doubt scrotal is highly effective, but my concern is the small amount of reservoir. Are you applying twice a day?

I would have never touched T if I could get thyroid to work but unfortunately, I'm pretty much completely resistant to it. At higher dosages my thyroid just feels inflamed and uncomfortable, at lower dosages, nothing. So far, T has been very helpful in alleviating the catabolism that I have been stuck in, but I'm still playing around with dosages, application methods, and combinations with other hormones.

Spoiler: About Pentravan

Study about Pentravan vs PLO
It's clearly more effective than the PLO gel in this study, but the n=3 isn't convincing and neither is the low flux..
View attachment 49053

When looking at this PDF about Pentravan, the results are quite disappointing. PDF

View attachment 49054

It's weird, 10% concentration has a flux of less than a microgram? That's pathetic. That also the only study that was published at the time. Porcine vaginal mucosa is not very relevant, and the only data showing a good flux is unpublished.. Suspicious..

Just once, 25mg after shower in the morning. It works for me. No idea how to source Pentravan. I see it for sale on some Italian websites?

 

[JCub369]

I wanted to update this thread with my results, since that's what actually matters. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get bloods for a while, but for now, my subjective experience is good enough for me. At this point, I am getting decent results. They might not seem impressive, but given my health state, they are incredibly dramatic.

Currently I am using 200mg of T with the 10% lotion on my upper thighs at night. The comeup is slow, something like 6-8 hours, but it seems to last the entire day. It's hard for me to be a good judge of this, since my other issues cloud the results, but this specific method and application has been by far the most effective and long-lasting. I seem to have an issue with boosting levels too high too fast, so the slow burn of this method seems to be actually making it work for me. I'm not sure if it's just aromatization or perhaps the effect that @blackface mentioned, but sky-rocketing T levels is essentially useless for me. I might feel a touch wired so perhaps its this:

Anyways, here are the things that I have tried, and the results of each. All of these methods I messed around with for a 1-2 weeks each, so each one of them got a decent run. The latest method I have been using for around 2 weeks and the results have been consistent the entire time (minus bad digestion days).

​

DMSO:​

Location: forearms, legs.
Dose: 1-30mg
Onset/Duration: 1 hour/4-8 hours
Effects: Mild energy, giddiness and edginess, mild euphoria, increased hot flashes.
At 30mg I felt nothing. Lower doses were most effective.

DIY Androgel:​

Location: Shoulders
Dose: 25-100mg
Onset/Duration: 2 hours/6-8 hours
Effects: Mild energy, edginess, mild clarity, increased hot flashes

DIY Cream:​

Location: scrotum, upper thighs
Dose: 10-200mg
Onset/Duration: Depends on the area. Scortal - 1 hour/16 hours, Thigh - 8 hours/ 20hours
Effects:
Scrotal low dose - emotional stability, calmness, strength increase. Increase in gonad size
Scortal high dose - honestly don't remember. It was some combination of the benefits/sides as the things above. I forgot because it was unimpressive.
Thigh high dose -
- Reduction in POTS - I can stand and not feel drained mentally. I can run, finally. I feel much improved blood flow to my brain, and therefore have much better prefrontal cortex function. That means, mental clarity, motivation, personality, working memory, etc. My functional work hours went from 2-3 to around 8 per day.
- Reduction in lactic acidosis and Kussmaul breathing.
- Improved digestion and appetite.
- Increase in dopamine levels - mental clarity, energy, and focus. Background "buzz" that replaces mild dysphoria which made me want to distract myself at all times.
- Sharper vision.
- Increase in hot flashes

Clearly, I have a large set of metabolic problems. Using T is an obvious band-aid, but the opportunity cost is too high. It's surprisingly effective on issues that aren't directly related, like POTS, and I assume that's because of the reduction of catabolism. I get increased hot flashes from any application method, but they appear on their own due to the metabolic acidosis. I might grab an AI to manage the increased estrogen, but doubt that the hot flashes will fully go away until I manage to fix my metabolism. The scrotal T use does nicely boost DHT, but it's not enough in my case to oppose the partially metabolic caused hot flashes.

Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with the cream. A professional formulator pointed out that the penetration enhancers might incorporate into emulsion interface and therefore not perform well. If that's true, then I need to seriously reconsider the formula, but for now it seems to be working well. I will be messing around in the future with the application area and method and will keep this thread updated.

Hi @brightside

Thanks for the thread. Sorry if this is a stupid question. I would like to try making your DIY Cream. I see it is 10% test base. At what amount should the average person be worried about suppression or negative feedback loop. I am only looking to enhance natural test rather than replace it.

Thank you :)

 

[brightside]

Hi @brightside

Thanks for the thread. Sorry if this is a stupid question. I would like to try making your DIY Cream. I see it is 10% test base. At what amount should the average person be worried about suppression or negative feedback loop. I am only looking to enhance natural test rather than replace it.

Thank you :)

Hi!

Not a stupid question. If you are looking to boost, then I recommend using just a few mg on the scrotum. I found that between 1-10mg would boost my gonad size, so that seemed to have been optimal. Theoretically, thats like TRT doses, since patches exist which provide ~5mg via the scrotal route. Either the cream’s absorption is low, or its me and my weird reaction to stuff, or perhaps its the fact that its applied to the scrotum specifically. I don’t think the absorption is low, given all of the data I have seen and written about above and my subjective response to it, but who actually knows. (Cant be worse than ethanol versions)

My bottles pump roughly .22-.23 mL per pump, and at 10% thats like 22mg. So you would probably want to make a 5% or even lower % cream. (Unless you can find pump bottles that pump like 100 uL)

If you will be using on the scortum, I don’t recommend using any of the volatile penetration enhancers, except for a little bit of terpenes. Nonanol will burn, and large amount of terpenes will too. Something like a few % of LIM or menthol should be enough.

Don‘t forget about vitamin E and something to prevent bacterial growth. ( My original batches are still not moldy, so LIM seems to work quite well.)

Good luck :)

 

[blackface]

Hi!

Not a stupid question. If you are looking to boost, then I recommend using just a few mg on the scrotum. I found that between 1-10mg would boost my gonad size, so that seemed to have been optimal. Theoretically, thats like TRT doses, since patches exist which provide ~5mg via the scrotal route. Either the cream’s absorption is low, or its me and my weird reaction to stuff, or perhaps its the fact that its applied to the scrotum specifically. I don’t think the absorption is low, given all of the data I have seen and written about above and my subjective response to it, but who actually knows. (Cant be worse than ethanol versions)

My bottles pump roughly .22-.23 mL per pump, and at 10% thats like 22mg. So you would probably want to make a 5% or even lower % cream. (Unless you can find pump bottles that pump like 100 uL)

If you will be using on the scortum, I don’t recommend using any of the volatile penetration enhancers, except for a little bit of terpenes. Nonanol will burn, and large amount of terpenes will too. Something like a few % of LIM or menthol should be enough.

Don‘t forget about vitamin E and something to prevent bacterial growth. ( My original batches are still not moldy, so LIM seems to work quite well.)

Good luck :)

Interesting, so you think the lower dosages (5-15 mg) are better than the higher dosages (100 mg) we were trying before? Do you think the lower dosing could prevent the "autism" side effects? What are your experiences. I was thinking about to experiment about with the transdermal test but I would rather opt for a tiny dose this time.

 

[JCub369]

Hi!

Not a stupid question. If you are looking to boost, then I recommend using just a few mg on the scrotum. I found that between 1-10mg would boost my gonad size, so that seemed to have been optimal. Theoretically, thats like TRT doses, since patches exist which provide ~5mg via the scrotal route. Either the cream’s absorption is low, or its me and my weird reaction to stuff, or perhaps its the fact that its applied to the scrotum specifically. I don’t think the absorption is low, given all of the data I have seen and written about above and my subjective response to it, but who actually knows. (Cant be worse than ethanol versions)

My bottles pump roughly .22-.23 mL per pump, and at 10% thats like 22mg. So you would probably want to make a 5% or even lower % cream. (Unless you can find pump bottles that pump like 100 uL)

If you will be using on the scortum, I don’t recommend using any of the volatile penetration enhancers, except for a little bit of terpenes. Nonanol will burn, and large amount of terpenes will too. Something like a few % of LIM or menthol should be enough.

Don‘t forget about vitamin E and something to prevent bacterial growth. ( My original batches are still not moldy, so LIM seems to work quite well.)

Good luck :)

If you ever decide to sell, please let me know :)

 

[brightside]

Interesting, so you think the lower dosages (5-15 mg) are better than the higher dosages (100 mg) we were trying before? Do you think the lower dosing could prevent the "autism" side effects? What are your experiences. I was thinking about to experiment about with the transdermal test but I would rather opt for a tiny dose this time.

I mean.. depends what your goals and criteria are. Speaking of, what are they?

To quickly answer your question, I do think that low dose is probably best and most optimal for the majority of people. Probably just a few mg of DHT would work too, and without the risk of aromatization. I would definitely give it a shot. I notice emotional stability, clarity, and calmness with it, which is drastically different (and worse) when I use like 100mg(scrotally).

Long answer: I would imagine that the autism is atleast in part due to the neurosteroid shutdown. You're not only shutting down T production, but also P4. It goes like this, LH stimulates PKA, which stimulates cholesterol movement into the mito, and then P5 into P4 and T. You do make P4 in the adrenals, and I think also in the brain by glia, but I'm sure that a decent chunk is from testicular production. With a loss of P4, you're probably getting less of the nuerosteroids, and probably a bunch of other intermediates. Perhaps @Mauritio can chime in with any experience on 5aDHP in relation to social mood and mental slowness.

So far, I have had three types of experiences from all of the T methods. 1. I get energized and edgy. 2. I get substantial DHT conversion and feel calm and clear, or 3, I feel a buzz, energy, reduction in POTS, and all the good stuff. Only the slowest method gives me #3, and I can still get large amount of aromatization and anxiety from scrotal T application if I use high doses. With both 2 and 3 I feel social, although it's still hard to tell for me because of my constant mild gut irritation leading to mild autism.

I also use a few hundred mgs of pregnenolone if I take a high dose T, and I try to use some P4/DHEA as well. I have yet to manage the anxiety effects of high dose scrotal with P4/DHEA, but I also haven't taken very high doses. Once I make a new batch, I will use like 100mgs of each to see how that works with the higher dosages of T.
Another effect that I noticed was some kind of "depletion". The really positive effects of the T largely diminished, unfortunately. If I quit for a few days and then resume, the benefits come back. So I think that even with the slower releasing method, I'm still running out of some kind of supplies. Doubt it applies to you, but I figured that I would still mention it.

I would try a number of things. Like dose 10mg on thicker skin (upper thigh or shoulder) 10x a day. This could emulate a slower absorbing lotion, and give you much stabler levels. And then also try the low dose scortal. Lastly, try using DHEA, P5, and P4 as well.

In general, I don't see how you could get away with solo T, even transdermal, without using any other upstream hormones.

Hope this answers your question haha

 

[brightside]

If you ever decide to sell, please let me know :)

Hahah, I know it seems daunting, but I think you could manage with just 2 ingredients. I wouldn't sell it, though, because it's illegal.
I think you could get away with using just lauric acid, and ethanol instead of propylene glycol. And then, you would need just glyceryl stearate SE, and that should be enough to make a simple batch. Making the cream is quite easy, the hard part is finding the optimal ratios, doing the finnicky work of measuring, being careful, getting it to go into the bottles, etc. The actual emulsification part is quite literally, heat, combine, and mix.

 

[JCub369]

Hahah, I know it seems daunting, but I think you could manage with just 2 ingredients. I wouldn't sell it, though, because it's illegal.
I think you could get away with using just lauric acid, and ethanol instead of propylene glycol. And then, you would need just glyceryl stearate SE, and that should be enough to make a simple batch. Making the cream is quite easy, the hard part is finding the optimal ratios, doing the finnicky work of measuring, being careful, getting it to go into the bottles, etc. The actual emulsification part is quite literally, heat, combine, and mix.

Are you saying it's as simple as Lauric acid, ethanol and glyceryl stearate SE? What would be an example ratio and amounts be? including the raw test?
Could you give me a breakdown if its not to much trouble.

 

[Santosh]

I would imagine that the autism is atleast in part due to the neurosteroid shutdown. You're not only shutting down T production, but also P4.

Wrong.

The autism we decribed with a few other members appears after just a day of high dose exogenous testosterone, during which neurosteroids haven't had time to be shutdown yet.

This autism is caused by the mental agitation brought by testosterone : your thoughts aren't in order, everything is rushing, nothing structured comes out.

 

[brightside]

Are you saying it's as simple as Lauric acid, ethanol and glyceryl stearate SE? What would be an example ratio and amounts be? including the raw test?
Could you give me a breakdown if its not to much trouble.

Sure.

So something like 10% lauric acid, and probably 4-5% GSSE. I usually match the fatty acid to alcohol ratios, but since its ethanol I would minimize it to prevent burning. Therefore, I'd go for something like 3-5% ethanol. Since lauric acid and GSSE are solid at room temp, it might turn out a bit grippy/waxy. Additionally, the oil phase would be too small, so I would add like 10% MCT, olive oil or coconut oil, and then finally the 1% hormone. This would give you a 26% oil phase, which is would make a light to medium lotion. Per pump you would have 2.5mg, and a total of 10mg per mL. This would give you a decent amount of control over the dosing, but you could cut it down to .5% hormone if you would want to, giving you 5mg per mL, or 1.25mg per pump.

I make small test batch sizes of 20g, so all of these in gram amounts would be: 2g Lauric acid, 1g GSSE, 1g ethanol, 2g filler liquid oil, 200mg hormone, and 13.8g of water. You combine all of these besides the water in a small container, stick on a hot water bath, and heat to like 50C and wait for it to melt. Then, add the hot water and just mix with a spoon or something. The GSSE thickens really well as soon as it cools down with some mild mixing, so this should be really easy to make. I can't promise a good result, since I haven't explicitly tried it, but I think it should work.

 

[JCub369]

Sure.

So something like 10% lauric acid, and probably 4-5% GSSE. I usually match the fatty acid to alcohol ratios, but since its ethanol I would minimize it to prevent burning. Therefore, I'd go for something like 3-5% ethanol. Since lauric acid and GSSE are solid at room temp, it might turn out a bit grippy/waxy. Additionally, the oil phase would be too small, so I would add like 10% MCT, olive oil or coconut oil, and then finally the 1% hormone. This would give you a 26% oil phase, which is would make a light to medium lotion. Per pump you would have 2.5mg, and a total of 10mg per mL. This would give you a decent amount of control over the dosing, but you could cut it down to .5% hormone if you would want to, giving you 5mg per mL, or 1.25mg per pump.

I make small test batch sizes of 20g, so all of these in gram amounts would be: 2g Lauric acid, 1g GSSE, 1g ethanol, 2g filler liquid oil, 200mg hormone, and 13.8g of water. You combine all of these besides the water in a small container, stick on a hot water bath, and heat to like 50C and wait for it to melt. Then, add the hot water and just mix with a spoon or something. The GSSE thickens really well as soon as it cools down with some mild mixing, so this should be really easy to make. I can't promise a good result, since I haven't explicitly tried it, but I think it should work.

God bless you!

 

[brightside]

Wrong.

The autism we decribed with a few other members appears after just a day of high dose exogenous testosterone, during which neurosteroids haven't had time to be shutdown yet.

This autism is caused by the mental agitation brought by testosterone : your thoughts aren't in order, everything is rushing, nothing structured comes out.

Probably not initially, yeah, but it doesn’t matter. You are not only achieving abnormal receptor activation (at 1500ng that is), but it’s disproportional to the rest of the hormones and neurosteroids. You could call it pseudo-depletion, before the real depletion takes place, which would be even worse. An altered mental state is expected, question is, what to do to mitigate it.

 

[Santosh]

question is, what to do to mitigate it.

First, you identify the real cause like I did, without throwing "it doesn't matter" at the problem.

Then, you don't call it a "pseudo-depletion" when what you actually mean is an "imbalance", the two have nothing in common.

Third, you do the only thing that is reasonable : you discontinue the testosterone.

If throwing neurosteroids at it solves the problem, you were deficient in the first place, a few days of testosterone were not enough to shut neurosteroids down.

 

[brightside]

First, you identify the real cause like I did, without throwing "it doesn't matter" at the problem.

Then, you don't call it a "pseudo-depletion" when what you actually mean is an "imbalance", the two have nothing in common.

Third, you do the only thing that is reasonable : you discontinue the testosterone.

If throwing neurosteroids at it solves the problem, you were deficient in the first place, a few days of testosterone were not enough to shut neurosteroids down.

Lmao dude, you just love to argue about nonsense.

It doesn't actually matter. If you are supplementing additional hormones, you are supplementing the additional hormones. Whether that's due to imbalance, or depletion via shutdown, the end solution is the same.

OK. Why does my poor word choice matter? Instead of nitpicking, how about trying to find a solution and spending your energy doing that.

Nope, wrong. If the goal is to supplement T, you don't abandon it, because then you're not supplementing T... duh. On the other hand, If your aim was to achieve a certain mental state, and T doesn't get you there, then T is not what you should be using. If you're deficient in neurosteroids, go supplement them.. If you are trying to run a cycle with T and don't like the mental state it puts you in, use neurosteroids to bring back as much balance as possible.

Honestly, why do you keep commenting? You keep picking at certain word choices, but don't actually contribute anything. I would be embarrassed to comment if I claimed to be a "pioneer" in topical solutions, yet continued to use MCT despite it being quite useless, and then moving the goal post when challenged lmao. Like can we talk about the mechanisms of penetration enhancers or 5aDHP? lol

 

[Santosh]

Lmao dude, you just love to argue about nonsense.

You keep picking at certain word choices, but don't actually contribute anything.

I exposed the mental ill-effects of testosterone, a few people recognized themselves in this trouble, I am not going to let someone misdiagnose the phenomenon as a neurosteroid imbalance when it's not the case, giving people the false hope than it can be treated with neurosteroids.

You see, I am arguing about a much larger picture than words, although you can keep convincing yourself about the contrary.

 

[brightside]

I exposed the mental ill-effects of testosterone, a few people recognized themselves in this trouble, I am not going to let someone misdiagnose the phenomenon as a neurosteroid imbalance when it's not the case, giving people the false hope than it can be treated with neurosteroids.

You see, I am arguing about a much larger picture than words, although you can keep convincing yourself about the contrary.

Such grandiose.

LOL. Just read this thread, you always dodge my challenges by picking at phrasing or something relatively meaningless or off-topic. It's actually quite impressive how well you're ignoring your poor tactics. Whether that's intentional or not, IDK, but damn, you're doing the opposite of leading people to the truth once you involve your ego.

Neither you, nor I understand this topic with much depth, and it would be incorrect to say otherwise. We have our theories, but ultimately, it's unknown. The idea of increasing neurosteroids isn't illogical. What is, is expecting to achieve a perfect a mental state when maintaining excessively high T levels. It's not, "ill-effects of testosterone" it's ill-effects of excess testosterone. Do you think that all of the people on TRT are experiencing the same, really? Most don't have such high levels, and also use HCG.