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Ray Peat And LSD

Kemby

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Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
63
Location
UK
Hey guys,

Did anyone see my post on peatarian re LSD? Maybe I made my point badly but was not impressed with the childish responses I received so won't be there often from now on. :shock:

I was trying to make the point that although LSD and certain other drugs definitely have their uses Ray Peat still does not condone their use.

I was concerned that so many were recommending LSD on the site that it would tarnish this great approach. The "Illegal" tarnish regardless of whether it is unwarranted or not can do a lot of damage to a way of thinking and some people who are in desperate need of fixing their metabolism who NEED this approach may be put off as their limited knowledge could lead to the thought "Ray Peat recommends LSD" - You might as well put it on the Ray Peat safe foods list beside coca cola and salt.

Just to be clear, I believe the use of LSD in low doses for the specific purpose of treating depression and as a tool to lower serotonin can be a useful tool (High doses - we still don't know for sure if there are damaging effects thanks to lack of research due to its status). It could still get you a prison sentence regardless of whether we think it right or wrong.

It being illegal is, in my mind unjustified, especially when compared to SSRI's BUT while it remains illegal surely people can see what massive damage can be done to a "Ray Peat" approach by openly recommending these things.

Ray talks about its use in his articles but is vague of practical doses etc so some random person on a forum recommending it to someone else when neither of them knows what else is in it from one dose to the next, where the other guy gets it from, what dose and how and when to take it - it could potentially and easily be dangerous.

All Ray Peat needs is the headline "Man found dead from LSD overdose while following a Ray Peat approach to nutrition" (Extreme and ridiculous I know but you see my point)
 

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gabriel79

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Joined
Sep 21, 2012
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94
Re: Got flamed by trolls on peatarian

I completely agree. Being an illegal substance, it means it has no quality control and standardized measure of units so basically you have no idea what you´re taking and trusting a drug dealer for it´s quality.
 
J

j.

Guest
Re: Got flamed by trolls on peatarian

I thought you were the one doing the trolling. You more or less said: submit to authority!
 
J

j.

Guest
Re: Got flamed by trolls on peatarian

MartinBrown said:
It being illegal is, in my mind unjustified, especially when compared to SSRI's BUT while it remains illegal surely people can see what massive damage can be done to a "Ray Peat" approach by openly recommending these things.

I disagree. Massive damage will be done to bad laws if they disagree with Ray Peat. The Ray Peat approach will remain intact.
 
G

gummybear

Guest
Re: Got flamed by trolls on peatarian

j. said:
MartinBrown said:
It being illegal is, in my mind unjustified, especially when compared to SSRI's BUT while it remains illegal surely people can see what massive damage can be done to a "Ray Peat" approach by openly recommending these things.

I disagree. Massive damage will be done to bad laws if they disagree with Ray Peat. The Ray Peat approach will remain intact.

Yes. Think of all the tens of thousands of people who have committed suicide because of SSRI's. Who is responsible for that?
 

Kemby

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Thread starter
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
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UK
Re: Got flamed by trolls on peatarian

Maybe I made my point badly

You more or less said: submit to authority!

Now that is a leap, I did not say "submit to authority" - So many people read so much more into posts, things that are simply not there.

1. You don't know what you are getting when you buy LSD from one dealer to the next (Other excipients mean a LOT to Peat - A whole potential mess of unknown allergens)

2. There are alternatives that can be dosed properly and

3. Regardless, it is still illegal, and could get you a prison sentence if you are found in possession potentially leading to the loss of your job, inability to support your family, potentially losing your home as a result etc. Whether its "Illegal" status is right of wrong is completely irrelevant in this context.

My main point that still stands is Ray Peat does not condone the use of LSD purchased from a drug dealer - He definitely thinks it should not be illegal and it has use in pure form for reducing serotonin and treating mental disorders BUT in none of his articles, none of his interviews, does he say "Use LSD, you can get it from your nearest drug dealer" What I thought was wrong was that joe Bloggs on the forum was openly recommending it to others - A dangerous and idiotic game to play with so many unknowns involved.

Anyway, I just wanted to make my points and I think I have done.

Please don't read anything into the above that isn't there. I don't "Bow to authority", I have become pretty anti establishment thanks to the damage the Pharma companies, food industry and governments do. I am all about a good peat approach and if people want to use LSD that's their choice and at their own risk, I have no issue with that, and certainly don't judge people for it.

Just don't make it look like Ray Peat condones purchasing LSD from a drug dealer with no QC for dosage or other potentially dangerous ingredients.

Thats what I wanted to say.
 

Kemby

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Thread starter
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Sep 11, 2012
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Location
UK
Yes. Think of all the tens of thousands of people who have committed suicide because of SSRI's. Who is responsible for that?

I agree but that is not what I am discussing above. Im discussing random people on forums making it look like Ray Peat openly condones the use of LSD from drug dealers
 
G

gummybear

Guest
MartinBrown said:
Yes. Think of all the tens of thousands of people who have committed suicide because of SSRI's. Who is responsible for that?

I agree but that is not what I am discussing above. Im discussing random people on forums making it look like Ray Peat openly condones the use of LSD from drug dealers

My common sense thinks that this isn't good publicity to talk about LSD. Just saying.
 

Kemby

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My common sense thinks that this isn't good publicity to talk about LSD. Just saying.

Well yes, because people are making it look like it is a part of the approach and worse, that Ray Peat condones its use. Just because he talks about it in a couple of articles to make a point regarding the messed up politics, money driven approach leading to incorrect drugs and food recommendations by governments, pharma and food industries doesn't mean he recommends it.

I am posting here to make it clear that he does not, but apparently it looks like im submitting to authority for doing so :lol:

I do admit (Again) that yes, I might have made my point on the other forum badly as at the time I was rushed and unfocused on what I was writing.
 

Amazigh

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I was not surprised when I read the RP newsletter that mentioned LSD's effect in lowering serotonin. There is research currently happening on LSD and psilocybin (among others) for treatment of cluster headaches and migraines through an organization called MAPS. They are also doing groundbreaking work with ibogaine for the most intractable addictions, mdma for ptsd, psilocybin for end-of-life anxiety in terminal cancer patients, etc. (check out MAPS.org)

While LSD was used successfully back in the 1950's to treat serious mental disorders, it was also (unfortunately) tested by the government as a mind control drug (which didn't work the way they'd hoped). Once it hit the streets, the authorities and the public panicked, its recreational and psychiatric use was shut down, and research funding was cut. Once this happened, it became taboo to be associated with it. No scientist would touch it-- they would be discredited and ostracized by the scientific community.

I think I remember something in that newsletter, not 100% sure though--about this happening right around the time when they began promoting serotonin as the "happy neurotransmitter" and that the fact that LSD countered its effects in a positive way would not be good for its PR (therefore the bad rap - if LSD makes you go crazy, serotonin must do the opposite).

Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about people getting the wrong impression about RP because others are recommending it. Talking about the science and the history of it is another story.
 

charlie

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rougesandy, very interesting. Thank you for the post! :)
 

michael94

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roguesandy said:
post 5380 I was not surprised when I read the RP newsletter that mentioned LSD's effect in lowering serotonin. There is research currently happening on LSD and psilocybin (among others) for treatment of cluster headaches and migraines through an organization called MAPS. They are also doing groundbreaking work with ibogaine for the most intractable addictions, mdma for ptsd, psilocybin for end-of-life anxiety in terminal cancer patients, etc. (check out MAPS.org)

While LSD was used successfully back in the 1950's to treat serious mental disorders, it was also (unfortunately) tested by the government as a mind control drug (which didn't work the way they'd hoped). Once it hit the streets, the authorities and the public panicked, its recreational and psychiatric use was shut down, and research funding was cut. Once this happened, it became taboo to be associated with it. No scientist would touch it-- they would be discredited and ostracized by the scientific community.

I think I remember something in that newsletter, not 100% sure though--about this happening right around the time when they began promoting serotonin as the "happy neurotransmitter" and that the fact that LSD countered its effects in a positive way would not be good for its PR (therefore the bad rap - if LSD makes you go crazy, serotonin must do the opposite).

Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying about people getting the wrong impression about RP because others are recommending it. Talking about the science and the history of it is another story.

Great post
 
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DaveFoster

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Dr. Peat has said he'd actually take LSD regularly. He's very opposed to pharmaceuticals in general, but he made an exception for LSD.
 

DaveFoster

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Did he mention the doses?
LSD
[long-term effects] It acts as a learning experience, and can affect your general attitudes; if the amount is excessive, causing depletion of brain glycogen, I think it can lead to prolonged defensive attitudes, probably with a rebound of serotonin.

And a few more all from Peatarian email exchanges:
Serotonin
The small doses, like coffee, help to optimize normal processes. Giant doses of either will deplete energy stores. Sugar, salt, milk, gelatin, juice, etc., help to restore the reserves [LSD].


If I were in a place where it's not illegal, I think I would want to occasionally use 10 mcg quantities. I think it's one of the things that can help to maintain the proper electronic resonance of the organism. (Have you heard any of Luca Turin's talks on resonance?) [LSD]
 

Wagner83

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Very interesting so this is close to micro-dosing (knowing Ray a bit it would be less frequent) and the reported effects of micro-dosing are pretty splendid.
 

Amazigh

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I know a guy that worked with MAPS and many of the scientists he met were microdosing LSD to increase creative problem-solving.
 

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