If You Were Younger And Founded Ray Peat?

jaguar43

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Hypothetical if any of you were younger and founded ray peat maybe while in college or in high school, would you have studied biochemistry (gilbert ling, szent-gyorgyi,) physics/biology (Mae-Wan Ho), psychology ( pavlov, lsd ect.) or arts ( blake, painting, ect) to try and understand the depth of knowledge that these people have and create your own theories and publications. Or would you see school as too demanding and controlling to ever to attempt study the professor preference of thought. I have the opportunity to go back at this moment in time, but I am not sure if it will be worth the time put in? Remembering the past, I feel that the standard educational system may have it all wrong, but after reading some of the people above I find it really interesting to go more in depth to understand what these people propose. I haven't ask ray if he would recommend a young person to go back to school knowing that the scientist that he cites and talks highly about? Any thoughts would be great thanks.
 
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j.

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I think one can still study those things now. Just get some books on physics, chemistry,etc., and read the people RP recommends.
 

BingDing

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For me. the only reason to go to school to study is to learn how to say the words. The specialized vocabulary is a daunting barrier to learning, I seem to need to know how to pronounce a word before I can really get it. Otherwise, I am constantly reading and learning.
 

cliff

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If you have a love for all those things start gathering a book/blog/article list, maybe email peat asking him for recommendations and just start teaching yourself
 
J

j.

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cliff said:
If you have a love for all those things start gathering a book/blog/article list, maybe email peat asking him for recommendations and just start teaching yourself

If anyone does this, please post the recommendations here.
 

jaguar43

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BingDing said:
For me. the only reason to go to school to study is to learn how to say the words. The specialized vocabulary is a daunting barrier to learning, I seem to need to know how to pronounce a word before I can really get it. Otherwise, I am constantly reading and learning.

Thats a real interesting thought, I remember trying to read something but without understanding it, but when my teacher used the word it made prefect sense.
 

Edward

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jag2594 said:
Hypothetical if any of you were younger and founded ray peat maybe while in college or in high school, would you have studied biochemistry (gilbert ling, szent-gyorgyi,) physics/biology (Mae-Wan Ho), psychology ( pavlov, lsd ect.) or arts ( blake, painting, ect) to try and understand the depth of knowledge that these people have and create your own theories and publications. Or would you see school as too demanding and controlling to ever to attempt study the professor preference of thought. I have the opportunity to go back at this moment in time, but I am not sure if it will be worth the time put in? Remembering the past, I feel that the standard educational system may have it all wrong, but after reading some of the people above I find it really interesting to go more in depth to understand what these people propose. I haven't ask ray if he would recommend a young person to go back to school knowing that the scientist that he cites and talks highly about? Any thoughts would be great thanks.

It depends on how you learn. A lot of times going to school can put you in a critical train of thought and cause you to explore areas you never would have thought of. Though schools can be dogmatic really it is you that is the deciding factor. If you are easily influenced and persuaded than school can be counterproductive to rational learning. It is good to have a basic foundation in the basic sciences, then you can evaluate for yourself the difference between mechanisms and dogma, often the book will show a mechanism, yet if you think about in context, you see that it can't be true. And for that confidence to develop you need the basic sciences. I grew up reading standard texts yet I came to completely different conclusions then the authors. It really does depend on how you think about things. If this isn't developed in yourself, the confidence to rationally doubt, and be sure of a doubt, I think it is a good exercise to read as much as possible from different fields, after a while you will notice patterns of contradictions that will lead you to developing your own ideas. And you will say well this can't be, it doesn't make sense, and down you go through the rabbit hole having a truly educational experience. When learning you always have to remember that learning is not memorization it is asking questions. If you always ask questions you will almost certainly find your way. The other reason for going to school is so that if you are interested in the basic sciences you have access to expensive equipment that you couldn't normally use. It is my experience that if you want to survive in school it is not a matter of shutting up it is a matter or supporting yourself thoroughly when you write your papers, if you are confrontational just for the sake of it, just because you are regurgitating bits of information from what you memorized from other authors, you won't get very far, that really is the same thing of going to school and learning the books, it's not different, but if you to thorough research and demonstrate that you are capable of presenting a strong case or something thought provoking, most professors in my experience welcome this. I've gone to a lot of different schools. Most professors who teach are ridiculously bored and are enthused when a student is actually interested.

If you are just interested in learning and aren't trying to function or use your degree in the real world or have an academic career, then it is probably more productive to buy books from the basic sciences and read them. Basic science books are usually fairly accurate, it is not till you start approaching theoretical concepts or advanced material that you start needing more caution. Even then your basic sciences will help guide you through.
 

frustrated

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jag2594 said:
Hypothetical if any of you were younger and founded ray peat maybe while in college or in high school, would you have studied biochemistry (gilbert ling, szent-gyorgyi,) physics/biology (Mae-Wan Ho), psychology ( pavlov, lsd ect.) or arts ( blake, painting, ect) to try and understand the depth of knowledge that these people have and create your own theories and publications. Or would you see school as too demanding and controlling to ever to attempt study the professor preference of thought. I have the opportunity to go back at this moment in time, but I am not sure if it will be worth the time put in? Remembering the past, I feel that the standard educational system may have it all wrong, but after reading some of the people above I find it really interesting to go more in depth to understand what these people propose. I haven't ask ray if he would recommend a young person to go back to school knowing that the scientist that he cites and talks highly about? Any thoughts would be great thanks.


Someone said that most professors love enthused students. I couldn't agree more. Go back and study biochemistry and keep an open dialogue with your professors about some of the extra-curricular things you learn. Most cool professors I've had love to have the more theoretical stuff debated. Work a lot on your communication skills though, because this is key for constructive debates. Without them you'll come accross as a smug anti-authoritarian with an air of superiority that won't get you far in life and education. Good luck.
 

pboy

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I agree Edward makes many good points, as well as Frustrated...in fact, I'm sure a lot of professors really would appreciate a truly enthusiastic student who is willing to think outside the box a bit, because they themselves often feel pressure from all their peers and required curriculums and it can suppress them from being as open as they'd like. I agree with whoever said that the exposure to material, access to equipment, and ability to interact with lots of people make college / university beneficial and stimulating, but theres also a lot of mundane programming type stuff that goes on, as well as corporate sponsored / led information (often misinformation!) so it is very intelligent to expect this and take all things with a grain of salt, and to have a well discerning, astute attitude along the way. Peronally and I'd guess this is the case for a lot of people, its just the the fact of how expensive school is that deters me...I literally couldn't afford to go to university atm even if I wanted to
 

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frustrated said:
Without them you'll come accross as a smug anti-authoritarian with an air of superiority that won't get you far in life and education.

Exactly, there is only one path to knowledge and success, the one approved by your superiors.
 
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j.

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pboy said:
I'm sure a lot of professors really would appreciate a truly enthusiastic student who is willing to think outside the box a bit

Ray Peat mentioned that when a student pointed out some evidence that contradicted the theories at the time, the professors acted like they didn't hear anything. The type of professors you're talking about probably exist, but they're extremely hard to find. Academia filters out non-authoritarians quite well.
 

4peatssake

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j. said:
frustrated said:
Without them you'll come accross as a smug anti-authoritarian with an air of superiority that won't get you far in life and education.

Exactly, there is only one path to knowledge and success, the one approved by your superiors.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPpAPIIZyo[/media]
 

jaguar43

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Edward said:
jag2594 said:
Hypothetical if any of you were younger and founded ray peat maybe while in college or in high school, would you have studied biochemistry (gilbert ling, szent-gyorgyi,) physics/biology (Mae-Wan Ho), psychology ( pavlov, lsd ect.) or arts ( blake, painting, ect) to try and understand the depth of knowledge that these people have and create your own theories and publications. Or would you see school as too demanding and controlling to ever to attempt study the professor preference of thought. I have the opportunity to go back at this moment in time, but I am not sure if it will be worth the time put in? Remembering the past, I feel that the standard educational system may have it all wrong, but after reading some of the people above I find it really interesting to go more in depth to understand what these people propose. I haven't ask ray if he would recommend a young person to go back to school knowing that the scientist that he cites and talks highly about? Any thoughts would be great thanks.

It depends on how you learn. A lot of times going to school can put you in a critical train of thought and cause you to explore areas you never would have thought of. Though schools can be dogmatic really it is you that is the deciding factor. If you are easily influenced and persuaded than school can be counterproductive to rational learning. It is good to have a basic foundation in the basic sciences, then you can evaluate for yourself the difference between mechanisms and dogma, often the book will show a mechanism, yet if you think about in context, you see that it can't be true. And for that confidence to develop you need the basic sciences. I grew up reading standard texts yet I came to completely different conclusions then the authors. It really does depend on how you think about things. If this isn't developed in yourself, the confidence to rationally doubt, and be sure of a doubt, I think it is a good exercise to read as much as possible from different fields, after a while you will notice patterns of contradictions that will lead you to developing your own ideas. And you will say well this can't be, it doesn't make sense, and down you go through the rabbit hole having a truly educational experience. When learning you always have to remember that learning is not memorization it is asking questions. If you always ask questions you will almost certainly find your way. The other reason for going to school is so that if you are interested in the basic sciences you have access to expensive equipment that you couldn't normally use. It is my experience that if you want to survive in school it is not a matter of shutting up it is a matter or supporting yourself thoroughly when you write your papers, if you are confrontational just for the sake of it, just because you are regurgitating bits of information from what you memorized from other authors, you won't get very far, that really is the same thing of going to school and learning the books, it's not different, but if you to thorough research and demonstrate that you are capable of presenting a strong case or something thought provoking, most professors in my experience welcome this. I've gone to a lot of different schools. Most professors who teach are ridiculously bored and are enthused when a student is actually interested.

If you are just interested in learning and aren't trying to function or use your degree in the real world or have an academic career, then it is probably more productive to buy books from the basic sciences and read them. Basic science books are usually fairly accurate, it is not till you start approaching theoretical concepts or advanced material that you start needing more caution. Even then your basic sciences will help guide you through.

Thank you for your insight, I remember ray peat saying how most teachers were very dogmatic with their classes and labs when he went to school, but a lot has change since he was in school. In my opinion, professors no longer have to protect every theory in the textbook. Im not sure why, maybe because their isn't a demand for control like it was when ray peat went to school. ( anti-communsim, protection of radiation therapy, denial of cloning and stems, weismann theory) I did have some confrontational arguments with some teachers, but all of them were extremely religious. One biology teacher never taught evolution because she insisted that "there was no evidence"

I went ahead and email ray

Question: Would you recommend a person to go to the university if had the opportunity, with the basic understanding of scientists and intellects you refer too in your work? For example studying biochemistry while keeping in the back of the mind, work by gilbert ling's, szent gyorgyi, Mae-Wan-Ho and others.

Or would it be a complete waste of time due to the direction that the university takes ? Could conforming to the studies of the university have a large impact on ones ability to learn and accept work individually?

Ray Peat: I think it's very worthwhile, if you can keep a critical mind. Funding and publication are provided only for things that serve their interests, but they can't suppress everything of value.
 

frustrated

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j. said:
frustrated said:
Without them you'll come accross as a smug anti-authoritarian with an air of superiority that won't get you far in life and education.

Exactly, there is only one path to knowledge and success, the one approved by your superiors.

Did you ever go to university J? If so I feel sorry that you thought your professors were your superiors. Considering the amount it costs to attend, I never viewed them that way. If anything the student is the superior. If I ever disagreed with something I expressed it and demanded a satisfactory answer. As I said, good communication skills are the most important part for this. Most of the people who don't have them end up becoming pretentious because they never had the ability to get into any kind of meaningful debate that might nullify their beliefs.
 

frustrated

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It is my experience that if you want to survive in school it is not a matter of shutting up it is a matter or supporting yourself thoroughly when you write your papers, if you are confrontational just for the sake of it, just because you are regurgitating bits of information from what you memorized from other authors, you won't get very far, that really is the same thing of going to school and learning the books, it's not different, but if you to thorough research and demonstrate that you are capable of presenting a strong case or something thought provoking, most professors in my experience welcome this. I've gone to a lot of different schools. Most professors who teach are ridiculously bored and are enthused when a student is actually interested.
 
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